Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions, 2019

Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

You guys already lookin at and evaluating next year's QB crop, and basically handing out final grades before the season starts ? Lol.
What is it, that we can take away from the Dwayne Haskins saga ?
If they did a grade of QB's before the 2018 college season, would Haskins be anywhere near the top ? :)
 
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Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

You guys already lookin at and evaluating next year's QB crop, and basically handing out final grades before the season starts ? Lol.
What is it, that we can take away from the Dwayne Haskins saga ?
If they did a grade of QB's before the 2018 college season, would Haskins be anywhere near the top ? :)

Actually, I had done a little research on the QB class for next year as we approached this year's draft in an effort to gauge the need for a franchise QB this year. I'd rather have Tua than Haskins, but we'd never have had the opportunity to get him, he likely goes 1st overall next year. Whoever gets Trevor Lawrence will likely the best QB to come out of college in a decade, but he won't come out for 2 seasons.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Some of this discussion misses the point. How highly a QB draft class is believed to be in a given year isn't 'inconsequential', but it is way down the list of factors teams have to consider. The biggest factor, in every draft, is where your picks occur and who is likely to be available there. If there were 3 QBs in next year's draft who are considered 'can't miss' future star QBs (setting aside that entire premise is flawed), you are going to have to have a top 5 pick to get one of them. We are far from a terrible team (and we've been far from a terrible team). We would have to trade the farm to move up. We've done it before, and we've seen the horrific price if it doesn't pan out.

It's quite possible that Dwayne Haskins has a better career than any of the QBs coming available next year. Folks don't believe it because they have endlessly been told that this year's QB class was weak, and next year's is very strong. Could be true. But it also could prove to be 100% wrong. It's almost irrelevant what you believe on that front though - because you can't defer selecting a QB you like a lot and who falls to you this year, for one you love but will likely not be in a position to draft where you'll be in next year's draft. It's just not a practical approach imho.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

And half of those "good QB's", will bust too. It's a 50/50 proposition. Regardless of the pool.

Now, I hope Haskins shows so well in OTA's, minicamp, training camp, and the preseason, that it's clear he's ready.
But there is no reason to rush him if he's not.

Certainly not for a pie in the sky. Or Ferry dust on a Unicorn's horn.

You know what would be a good problem to have? Case Keenum leading us to the superbowl
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

You know what would be a good problem to have? Case Keenum leading us to the superbowl

It's definitely a win-win if Keenum ballz out, gives Haskins the chance to learn properly and we possibly get our 2nd rounder back when we trade CK.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Some of this discussion misses the point. How highly a QB draft class is believed to be in a given year isn't 'inconsequential', but it is way down the list of factors teams have to consider. The biggest factor, in every draft, is where your picks occur and who is likely to be available there. If there were 3 QBs in next year's draft who are considered 'can't miss' future star QBs (setting aside that entire premise is flawed), you are going to have to have a top 5 pick to get one of them. We are far from a terrible team (and we've been far from a terrible team). We would have to trade the farm to move up. We've done it before, and we've seen the horrific price if it doesn't pan out.

It's quite possible that Dwayne Haskins has a better career than any of the QBs coming available next year. Folks don't believe it because they have endlessly been told that this year's QB class was weak, and next year's is very strong. Could be true. But it also could prove to be 100% wrong. It's almost irrelevant what you believe on that front though - because you can't defer selecting a QB you like a lot and who falls to you this year, for one you love but will likely not be in a position to draft where you'll be in next year's draft. It's just not a practical approach imho.

Disagree. See Cardinals.

The "don't know" argument holds no water. A decision has to be made. Presumably a rational one. If it's entirely chance, seems to me the best process is simply to put each candidate's name on an equal number of paper shreds, dump the shreds in a bin, mix the bin and pull a shred out with one's eyes closed! Presto! A draft pick!

But no one is responding to the thought I advanced: find out this season whether Haskins has it. If not, better to know sooner rather later. If he does - sure silences people like me real quick.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Disagree. See Cardinals.

The "don't know" argument holds no water. A decision has to be made. Presumably a rational one. If it's entirely chance, seems to me the best process is simply to put each candidate's name on an equal number of paper shreds, dump the shreds in a bin, mix the bin and pull a shred out with one's eyes closed! Presto! A draft pick!

But no one is responding to the thought I advanced: find out this season whether Haskins has it. If not, better to know sooner rather later. If he does - sure silences people like me real quick.

We 'don't know' if the Cardinals just made the greatest decision ever or the worst. We really don't Al. What are you basing your assessment on - sports media? Murray may be the next Michael Vick or the next RG3. There's literally no way of knowing how his game translates to the NFL.

Look at Rosen's class - it was supposedly one of the 'great' QB classes, and since it immediately produced 5 starting QBs, you can make the leap that it was.. But with just a year of play it's much too early to judge. Mayfield (for me) is the only sure-fire star in that group, with Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and Rosen all still question marks.

Obviously you're correct that you can't just ignore assessments when it comes to draft classes. There is data on all QB prospects and I understand that one can characterize one class as a lot stronger than another, at least on paper. What I'm saying is that you cannot pick a future QB from future QB classes and say 'let's wait for this guy or that guy' - because there is absolutely no guarantee that you'll be in a position to do so.

When you have the chance to grab a QB who *could be* the next long-term starter for your franchise without trading the farm to get there, you absolutely make that pick every single time. And I'll also push back on the idea that you can make a final determination on a QB in his rookie year.

I think what we're going to see from Haskins (if he is on the field in 2019) is a very accurate passer who makes quick decisions. One early sign that he's as good as some analysts say he is - if he wins the starting job to start the season under center. Gruden has already demonstrated that he's not going to be pressured into starting a QB he doesn't want, not by the front office or anyone else. So if Haskins beats out Case Keenum, something that really shouldn't happen as Keenum is a capable, experienced NFL starter - that's a clear sign that Haskins is very talented.

Haskins will get 3-4 seasons to prove he's either the first franchise QB we've had in decades or that he's not. We aren't going to start over in 2020, although if we again find ourselves in a position to draft a great young QB, we should always do that.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

And Al, don't forget that my 'we don't know' mantra also embraces the possibility that you are 100% correct. It may turn out that all of the QBs in the 2019 draft were over-hyped and are busts, and there are 3 future HOFers in the 2020 class.

For all of our sakes, let's hope that we got a future great in 2019 :)
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Haskins will get 3-4 seasons to prove he's either the first franchise QB we've had in decades or that he's not. We aren't going to start over in 2020, although if we again find ourselves in a position to draft a great young QB, we should always do that.

Exactly! Which is all I'm asserting.

There are capabilities I like about Haskins. I have listed those previously. I also, however, believe there is a lot of uncertainty associated with him - most especially in that he is a 21 year old with exactly one year of experience. There have been many spectacular one year flameouts. I also don't like that in a league that is moving to bigger, faster, more agile LBs, edge rushers and tackles he is very slow and REPORTEDLY (i.e., we'll have to see) not good under pressure when it comes to escapability. That increases the pressure on the o-line - not a comforting thought at this point. He dropped to 15 for a reason. There were six other teams (before the Skins at 15) that said "pass" for various reaons, but they obviously didn't view him as a sure thing or follow the rule you outlined in your post.

I get it.....no carping about a good draft (not said sarcastically). We need to wait and see. If he turns out to be 4/5 years and gone, this franchise's fanbase is done IMO. This is a much higher risk pick than many see it for.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Brother @Om and I watched a couple of Ohio State games this weekend. I really encourage you guys to do the same (the games are available in 40 minute condensed versions on You Tube).

We watched a randomly selected drubbing of Oregon State and a big win over 4th ranked Michigan late last season.

Haskins is for real. With the obvious caveat that until a guy does it consistently at an NFL level it's all just eye candy... here's what we saw.

1) Haskins has a big arm. He can throw it from any platform, he can rifle it in there and he also can show touch to drop balls behind defenders. He has the strength to throw to the sidelines with velocity. He has a legit NFL arm, maybe the best arm we'll have seen since Mark Rypien. We waited and waited for bad throws but I'm telling you he rarely makes a bad one. Repeatedly hits receivers in stride.

2) He's much more athletic than he's being given credit for. He consistently glided in the pocket to extend the pocket. His footwork is very smooth. Zero happy feet ala Cousins. He does not have to have have a perfect stance to make powerful accurate throws.

3) He is very decisive. One of the reasons his relative lack of mobility should not be a concern is because he gets the ball out of his hands so quickly. In the 2 full games we watched the pass rush rarely had a chance to get to him. We also saw him audible a number of times. He did not play under center AT ALL so that will be a big adjustment.

He looked in absolute full control of the Ohio State offense. I really challenge you guys to watch a few full games. He is a very impressive young QB.


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Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Brother @Om and I watched a couple of Ohio State games this weekend. I really encourage you guys to do the same (the games are available in 40 minute condensed versions on You Tube).

We watched a randomly selected drubbing of Oregon State and a big win over 4th ranked Michigan late last season.

Haskins is for real. With the obvious caveat that until a guy does it consistently at an NFL level it's all just eye candy... here's what we saw.

1) Haskins has a big arm. He can throw it from any platform, he can rifle it in there and he also can show touch to drop balls behind defenders. He has the strength to throw to the sidelines with velocity. He has a legit NFL arm, maybe the best arm we'll have seen since Mark Rypien. We waited and waited for bad throws but I'm telling you he rarely makes a bad one. Repeatedly hits receivers in stride.

2) He's much more athletic than he's being given credit for. He consistently glided in the pocket to extend the pocket. His footwork is very smooth. Zero happy feet ala Cousins. He does not have to have have a perfect stance to make powerful accurate throws.

3) He is very decisive. One of the reasons his relative lack of mobility should not be a concern is because he gets the ball out of his hands so quickly. In the 2 full games we watched the pass rush rarely had a chance to get to him. We also saw him audible a number of times. He did not play under center AT ALL so that will be a big adjustment.

He looked in absolute full control of the Ohio State offense. I really challenge you guys to watch a few full games. He is a very impressive young QB.


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That sounds exactly like James Winston at Florida State.
 
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Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions, 2019

Did you miss the part where I talked about how incredibly accurate he is?

In all seriousness, I don't know enough about Winston to make an educated comparison...

But I'm telling you this kid can play.

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Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

I meant to add that Haskins and Terry McLaurin really look to have a special chemistry as well.

And just out of curiosity @Om and I watched some Daniel Jones games as well. Definitely doesn't have Haskins arm power, and while he takes off a lot more downfield and was successful getting yardage at Duke, those same instincts will get him killed at the NFL level with his much more slight frame. He also throws some balls that don't have the velocity to get there prior to secondary coverage and that may be a challenge for him in the NFL. Haskins is clearly a more gifted passer in our humble opinion.


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Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Did you miss the part where I talked about how incredibly accurate he is?

In all seriousness, I don't know enough about Winston to make an educated comparison...

But I'm telling you this kid can play.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In his freshman year, as a true freshman mind you, he threw for 4067 yard with 384 pass attempts. He threw for 66% completion rate against much tougher defenses. The following year, he threw for 100 less yards, and had a 65% completion rate with less pass attempts.

Haskins one season he threw for 4800 yards, but he threw the ball 533 times with a 70 percent completion rate which is impressive, if it wasn't against horrible defenses in the Big 10.

Like I said, you described James Winston when you were describing Haskins, quick release, just enough mobility to get out of trouble in the college ranks to extend plays, good reads, rocket arm, accurate...we'll see how that "mobility" and quick release translate to the NFL.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Thanks El... I would be curious why Winston's physical talents haven't translated to NFL success? Of course supporting cast and coaching always play a role but I also wonder if he's a student of the game and how football smart he is?

Those are supposedly strengths with Haskins.

I'm not saying with any certainty that Haskins will succeed at the NFL level - because you just never know. But he is a big, strong, decisive QB with one hell of an arm. I didn't love him prior to watching significant game film but I'm smitten now.


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Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Thanks El... I would be curious why Winston's physical talents haven't translated to NFL success? Of course supporting cast and coaching always play a role but I also wonder if he's a student of the game and how football smart he is?

Those are supposedly strengths with Haskins.

I'm not saying with any certainty that Haskins will succeed at the NFL level - because you just never know. But he is a big, strong, decisive QB with one hell of an arm. I didn't love him prior to watching significant game film but I'm smitten now.


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So when interviewed by Gruden before the draft, he was able to give Gruden perfect analysis of plays from his time at FSU, kid is sharp. His problem has always been ego.

As for his physical ability translating to the NFL...he's had some success in the NFL but the athletes are all a step faster than college. So while he could slip the pressure much like Haskins, by just talking a step up in the pocket, or scrambling when warranted, he isn't fast enough to do it with such ease as in college...which is my biggest concern for Haskins. How does he handle the change in speed at the NFL level?

Another rub on Winston is that with his success at FSU, he often tries too hard and makes poor decisions at Tampa, it's why he throws a lot of INT's in the pros, but didn't at FSU. I'm getting the same vibe from Haskins because he is so interested in developing his "Brand".

It all depends how he handles the change in pace from throwing against poor defenses in the Big 10, to throwing against NFL defenses. Winston has had trouble adjusting and Arians is his last chance. Again...we'll see how Haskins adjusts. The good thing about Haskins is that we haven't heard about him jumping up on a table in the chow hall and screaming, "F**k 'em in the p****y!" So he may have the maturity to adjust.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

Thanks El... I would be curious why Winston's physical talents haven't translated to NFL success? Of course supporting cast and coaching always play a role but I also wonder if he's a student of the game and how football smart he is?

Those are supposedly strengths with Haskins.

I'm not saying with any certainty that Haskins will succeed at the NFL level - because you just never know. But he is a big, strong, decisive QB with one hell of an arm. I didn't love him prior to watching significant game film but I'm smitten now.


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It always seemed to me that Jameis's issues were mental, not physical. Ideally Haskins shows as more mature than Winston, and we can get the Ws instead of eating them.
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

I'm cautiously optimistic,
Not doom, gloom, and bust.
And not predicting he'll be a top QB.
But my gut tells me he can't be worse than the 1st round QB's we've selected in the past 40 or so years.
But considering our past, that may be more than just gut, but simply common sense. :)
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

It always seemed to me that Jameis's issues were mental, not physical. Ideally Haskins shows as more mature than Winston, and we can get the Ws instead of eating them.

Bingo! I hopeful, from all that I've seen thus far, that Haskins has more leadership/maturity than Winston. That "eat a win" thing (among other things mentioned), hahaha, so odd:
https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/5/16609522/jameis-winston-eat-w-speech-buccaneers-saints
 
Re: Burner's Burning Questions: Free Agency, Mocks, Camps, OTAs, Roster Predictions,

When I evaluated QBs this winter, very little time was spent on Haskins. The predictions for at the time had him going in the top five and the Redskins were looking at edge and wide receiver. The focus on Haskins didn't begin until the week of the draft - my apologies for not doing a better job this winter.

I will look closer at him in June. Or maybe I won't - it depends on how the rest of off-season goes. Thanks to everyone for the evals of late.
 

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