Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

[Ax]

A franchise QB wasnt a requirement in the 80s maybe. These days teams that win without one are the exception, not the rule. Again, your strategy shouldnt be to bank on being the exception.

Especially if your team cant run the ball consistently or field a remotely competative defense.

But Henry, it's me..............Ax.

I'm exceptional. So I fully expect my team to be, as well.

 

[Henry]

But Henry, it's me..............Ax.

I'm exceptional. So I fully expect my team to be, as well.

Fair enough. [emoji846]


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[Boone]

We won 3 Super Bowls without a franchise QB. And lost 2 more. We'll be aight.

I'm still hoping if McGreedy doesn't sign a LTD by 4pm tomorrow, we trade him to the first team offering a soda and a bag of peanuts.
His presence, and the presence of a deal that couldn't get done has more potential to ruin the upcoming season than anything else.

That's a valid point, however the game has changed significantly since those days Ax. It's a pass dominated league and outstanding talent at the QB position means a lot more now than it did then. Not to mention, 2 of those 3 SB wins happened in strike shortened seasons - so I'm not sure they are evidence that you can win with any QB (even back then) as much as a testament to Gibbs ability to keep a team on track despite distractions.

Bottom line - no matter what your POV, I think we would all agree it's preferable to have a proven, experienced, talented QB than to be drafting or starting an unknown quantity.


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[Boone]

Totally agree. Having a franchise QB would be nice. I only point out that it's not a requirement. Obviously, we need a more talented team to pull it off.

And, since Gibbs 1st retirement, the coaching/system turnstile has hurt us far worse than not having a franchise QB. IMHO

Gruden is far from perfect. But he's not the worst coach we've had since Gibbs. If we can get the defense stabilized, and start to steadily improve, we'll be fine.

I'll concede it's possible we'll be fine. One factor to consider though is that a lot of our current talent is going to age out while we draft our eventual starter and let him go through a couple seasons to be competent. One of the things that pisses me off about Cousins is that we are clearly a team on the rise/cusp and he seems ambivalent about that. Much more focused on his personal status than winning a Super Bowl - that's my perception.


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[Ax]

I'll concede it's possible we'll be fine. One factor to consider though is that a lot of our current talent is going to age out while we draft our eventual starter and let him go through a couple seasons to be competent. One of the things that pisses me off about Cousins is that we are clearly a team on the rise/cusp and he seems ambivalent about that. Much more focused on his personal status than winning a Super Bowl - that's my perception.

Agree about #8 being more concerned with himself, than the team. There were many times last season that he appeared, at least to me, to be playing like a guy trying too hard not to get hurt. He seemed reluctant to take off and pick up what looked like easy to reach first downs. I believe I heard the frustration in Gruden's pressers several times. Makes me think #8's agent has hammered it into his head, and as #8 has said, he trusts his agent completely. And is following his advice without question. Which may be good for him, but it sucks for the team.

As to the talent pool, and it's further replenishing. If Gruden can improve, and hang around another 5-10 years, not only will Brother McD be dancing the jig in everybody's face the entire time, (We love you Brother McD) but the FO will be able to continue drafting players for the same coach/system for an extended period. Which has to be infinitely easier.

Now, let me really jump out on the dance floor at the fantasy disco.....
#8 plays 2017 under the tag, and then the ungrateful multimillionaire, set for life financially, moves on. "**** off. Good riddance!"
Colt then takes over for 2018 & 19.
2020 rolls around and Nate Sudfield, with four years learning the pro game, and our system. Along with some spot duty starting for the heretofore injury susceptible McCoy, and we will have done it the old fashioned way. 4-5 years to make a QB. For far cheaper.

And, the playoffs, where anything can happen, is likely every one of those seasons. IMHO.

 

[Bulldog]

If Pryor, Zach Brown and some others that are on short-term deals turn in stellar seasons and the team wants to retain them, resigning Cousins is going to be very difficult regardless.

I keep reading through the 'sky is falling' mentality whereby the Redskins are going to be in the cellar for the next 20 years if they don't resign Cousins.

It's crap.

Just because Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder on their own weren't able to draft a capable quarterback in Round 1 in the past doesn't mean that Doug Williams, Santos and the others can't go into the draft in 2018 and use a #1 or #2 pick on a quarterback with better physical upside than Cousins, and a player that could come in and play early in his career.

Other teams don't seem to have the same angst and sense of 'all or nothing'.

Rodgers was the #24 pick, Brees was a second rounder, Wilson was a third rounder, etc. etc.

2017 by all accounts was a shallow year for going into the draft to find value at the quarterback position.

2018 is shaping up to be a very good year in terms of depth with 5 or 6 guys that scouts are projecting to be bona fide NFL talents.

So, in that regards IF the Redskins have the option of moving on from Cousins it makes a LOT more sense to make that move NEXT year when a successor is more likely to be within reach in the draft then force a move in 2017 or trade all those picks like Chicago did to take a guy that scouts are split on in Trubisky, etc.

Capable prospects don't sit in the NFL for 3-4 years as they used to do in the pre-free agency era.

If a guy has demonstrable talent he will probably sit behind McCoy for the first 8-10 games of 2018 and then move into a starting role. And if not then, by the start of the 2019 season.

If the team is smart and the players perform up to expectations, guys like the 27 year old Pryor and 27 year old Brown as well as Jordan Reed and Jamison Crowder will still be on the front-end of their primes here.

THAT type of team to me would be superior in the long-run vis a vis a team where we resign Cousins but Pryor and Brown leave for greener pastures because we can't afford to pay them.

I am amused in reading ESPN and Pro Football Talk articles where the Redskins are supposed to suffer so much because of the departure of DeSean Jackson and Garcon.

The truth is that Jackson was a one trick pony. He didn't block and wasn't a dependable target over the middle. His one value was as a stretch the field guy.

Pryor at 6'4 and 230 has 4.35 speed which is more than fast enough to run by half the cornerbacks in the NFL and his size gives him the advantage in the red zone and on short yardage to snag balls that are contested.

When you add in that Garcon is 31 and Jackson will be 30 at the start of the season, the last thing we need to do is lock up guys on the wrong side of 30 to multi-year deals.

That's how this team got in trouble in the past with their free agent moves for older players.

Whether it was McCloughan's influence or the front office guys like Santos and Campbell finally having a voice that was being heard by top management (with Gruden's approval) - the Redskins are finally drafting and signing guys that are BIGGER, STRONGER, and YOUNGER.

Those are all positive developments.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Soooo .... we're hoping Cousins sucks so bad he gets pulled, or he gets significantly hurt, so that we can see if our sixth round pick magically plays like a first rounder?

Forgive me, I'm not thrilled with that plan.

No, I didn't say anywhere that anyone should hope for that.
It's simply a possibility that no-one can deny. And it's not a plan, either. It's a reality that it can happen.
You're talking about making plans today about who to draft before the season even starts. What harm is there in waiting until after the season ? It's really simple logic.
And there is no logic that says we have to decide who or what to draft right now, for next year's draft.

 

[Henry]

Other teams don't seem to have the same angst and sense of 'all or nothing'.

Other teams don't generally jettison healthy, pro-bowl calibre QBs in the middle of the prime of their career. This is fairly uncharted waters the Redskins are travelling, and not in a good way.

I am amused in reading ESPN and Pro Football Talk articles where the Redskins are supposed to suffer so much because of the departure of DeSean Jackson and Garcon.

The truth is that Jackson was a one trick pony. He didn't block and wasn't a dependable target over the middle. His one value was as a stretch the field guy.

I keep reading about how Cousins was only good because he had such awesome talent around him, and now I'm reading that our WRs weren't all that good so who needs em? Apparently Pryor is so awesome that after one 1000 yard season he's proven he's as good as Jackson and Garcon put together. Either that, or one of the other guys who's never proven a thing in his life is going to step in and be equally awesome. And cheap! I assume this is because the Redskins have such a great track record of drafting WRs over the years.

Anyway, so we haven't been a good running team, our defense has been embarrassing for years, and now our QB is too expensive and is utterly replaceable, and our WRs are old and expensive and also easily replaced. Am I missing anything?

At what position does this team actually require actual talent to be competitive? Is it difficult to find talent at ANY position? Or are we just magically going to fill all these spots with awesome, cheap players ... just because.

No, I didn't say anywhere that anyone should hope for that.
It's simply a possibility that no-one can deny. And it's not a plan, either. It's a reality that it can happen.
You're talking about making plans today about who to draft before the season even starts. What harm is there in waiting until after the season ? It's really simple logic.

Sorry, when I say 'you' in this thread I'm not talking about Fear the Spear, or Ax, or anyone posting. I'm talking about the Redskins.

And yes, they should always have a plan, especially for the QB position. Planning between seasons and games and at all other times is, quite literally, the entire purpose of a front office.

Yes, anything is possible. That's why they play the games. And if the Redskins go 12-4 I'll be thrilled. Or maybe Nate Sudfeld's number will be called and he'll the next Tom Brady and then agree to play for us for a super-cheap home-team discount! Or maybe Doctson will come in an immediately put up 900+ yards opposite Pryor who will post a 1300-yard season and then want to sign here for a modest contract. You just never know.

But at this moment, based on the way this team has operated for years, and apparently continues to operate now, I am not expecting such outcomes. I am expecting this team to spike itself, as it has done for decades. That would be a likely outcome for any generic team that cuts ties with it's best skill position players at their one area of strength over the course of two season. For the Redskins? It's practically a given.

 

[DieselPwr44]

According to NFL Radio, the Redskins last offer wasn't even up to the value of the current tag(23.9 million). So if the team can't even start there, when Carr got 25, it makes you wonder if the FO has any clue.

 

[Ax]

Eh, I don't think he's worth that much either. So, it's hard for me to hate on the FO.

If they're wrong, they're wrong.

There will be a QB in Washington. This year, next year, and for years to come.

 

[riggins44]

At what point does all this nonsense start to cost the team loyal fans? I am already at a point where I don't purchase jerseys or other merchandise. Sadly it is getting to point where I may not watch games.

The players don't care about loyalty the team and the fans. The team doesn't care about loyalty to the players or us. All they care about is how much money will they make.

I am about over all this.

 

[Ax]

The players are no different than the owners when it comes to money being the main objective.

I pity none of them. Oddly enough though, I tend to side with the owners more often than not when it comes to who gets the most money. The players are free to go to Canada and play if it's the love of the game they play for. Besides, us little folk can't usually demand what we're being paid. As there are many many more people competing for the same jobs. That's just the way it works.

We made #8 a multimillionaire. He is set for life even if his legs fall off tonight. The ungrateful sumbitch can move to San Fran tomorrow for all I care.

And I'm nowhere near close to stopping watching, at this point.

 

[riggins44]

Well 3:55 PM EST and was checking in to see if any breaking news. About what I expected.

Guess will revisit this thread next January.

 

[Boone]

Just posted Bruce Allen statement on the offer made to Cousins. It speaks volumes imho as to Kirk's 'strong desire' to be a Redskin. Or lack thereof. Just remember, it's not about the money...


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[Burgundy Burner]

Like I've been saying for a while now... Eh, ok.

Get used to seeing a lot of Nate Sudfeld in the preseason and on occasion during the regular season.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Well, I'm disappointed. I was hoping they could get something done. Just like the pre deadline talks, its hard to know which spin to believe. And in reality, it doesn't matter. Cousins goes into 2017 on a one year deal and most likely we do this again next offseason.


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[riggins44]

Send Sudfeld to Camp Jon Gruden for some training.

 

[Fear The Spear]

In one offseason, we lose Scot McClou, DJax, Garcon, and essentially KC.
Worst offseason ever ?

 

[Henry]

This team continues to be a hot mess.


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[Ax]

In one offseason, we lose Scot McClou, DJax, Garcon, and essentially KC.
Worst offseason ever ?

We'll see.

BTW, what's tomorrows winning Megamillions number?