Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

[Ax]

Well, as bad as the defense has been the last seven years, an Aaron Rodgers might not even have been able to take the team to the promised land.

Kirk is no Rodgers. And, if only due to the difference in arm strength, he never will be.

Can we win with Kirk? Sure. But we're gonna need a defense to do it. And a consistently effective, properly used running game.

We're never gonna get the 2 easy layups we've gotten these past 2 years, in regards to playoff opportunities, again. Or, at least anytime soon. The defense has been a big contributor to the failure. The offense hasn't been good enough to make up the difference. And, when given the opportunity to take charge and get it done, the offense looked as inept, and unable to do so, as the defense ever has.

Improving the team around Kirk, Colt, or WTF-ever, is more important than having Kirk, Colt, or WTF-ever under center.

I don't really give a shit if we re-sign him or not. I know I'm not the only one that believes he doesn't really want to be here. Yeah, it's a business. But even if you're lying, it never hurts to try and get a fan base on your side by saying, "Yeah, I'd love to be here!"

I hope we can get something for him if he leaves. And, if he wants to leave, all I can say is, go **** yourself Kirk.
Colt McCoy, with an improved defense and running game can at least match not making the playoffs.

 

[stevenaa]

He's gonna get market value where ever he goes, and it's going to be a big contract. That's just how it is for QB's. Why worry about it. No matter what they sign him for, it isn't going to impact the rebuild. And in a few years it will fade to the lower end of contract cost for QB. You don't put up the numbers he has simply by virtue of being nothing more than a system QB. He has some skills. He's never gonna shoulder a team like Rodgers, but he doesn't have to either. Hell, how many fingers would it take to list the QB's all time that can shoulder a team the way Rodgers can? Probably one hands worth. Some of you are too all or nothing. I'm as desperate as any for another Super Bowl, but hell, having consistent winning seasons would sure be nice for a change.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Cousins is nothing more than a system qb who has flashes of goodness not greatness, he is not even remotely a franchise qb, he is just better than anyone we have had in a long time

Flashes of goodness, not greatness ?
Over the last 2 years combined, he's in the company of the Top 5 QB's in many of the most important categories. Everything below is not a "flash in the pan", it's consistency. And Top 5 is not "goodness", it's "greatness".

Based on QB Rating, it goes in this order :

Brady
Ryan
Brees
Wilson
Cousins

Based on ESPN's TOTAL QBR System, which de-emphasize “garbage yards” and focuses on clutch ability in high-leverage situations, it's this order :

Brady
Ryan
Brees
Roethlisberger
Cousins

Passing Yards Leaders over the last 2 years :

Brees
Ryan
Rivers
Cousins
Palmer

Net Yards Per Attempt :

Ryan
Roethlisberger
Brady
Cousins
Brees

Frequency the QB scores, by passing or running combined ?

Rodgers
Brees
Newton
Brady
Cousins

So, by what reasoning, is he "not even remotely a franchise QB" ?
System QB ? He appears to be anything but.
How do you come up with that conclusion ?

Give him more talent support around him, and those 8-9 wins will turn into about 12 wins, PLUS playoff wins. He is more than just "better than anyone we've had in a while", he is on the verge of elite.
And remember when everyone called him a "turnover machine" ? As great QB's typically do, he's overcome that, so it's shown obvious improvement greatly since that time. And he's a hard worker and still young. So it's reasonable to think he will get even better. And not unrealistic to say he could reach Top 2-3 QB status.

I say, go ahead and give him the NFL's highest contract.
It's absolutely worth the gamble.
Letting him walk is NOT worth the gamble.
We WILL, (or "would" I should say) regret it.

He'll get that money, not because he's the NFL's best player, but because of the Supply and Demand rule with QB's these days. Sometimes, or often-times, you have to pay more than you want or should, in this league. That's an unfortunate aspect in this league. You don't go to Walmart, or anywhere looking for the "best deal", when it comes to NFL QB's.

 

[Ax]

All of those guys have won at least one playoff game. Except Kirk.
They've produced 8 Super Bowl victories? Kirk has zero.
They've produced what, 14-15 Super bowl appearances? Kirk has zero.
They've produced Championship appearances, and victories. Not Kirk.

And I believe they all had to produce more than Kirk has, in these categories, to get the big contracts that they have.
Not on speculation.

 

[Fear The Spear]

All of those guys have won at least one playoff game. Except Kirk.
They've produced 8 Super Bowl victories? Kirk has zero.
They've produced what, 14-15 Super bowl appearances? Kirk has zero.
They've produced Championship appearances, and victories. Not Kirk.

And how many more full seasons have they been a starter, compared to Kirk's 2 ?
Super Bowl QB's don't get groomed overnight.
Besides the obvious and previous-mentioned stats, what you also look for, is an arc of improvement. And Kirk certainly has that, and every indication is, he's headed straight in the direction of those playoff-winning QB's.

 

[stevenaa]

All of those guys have won at least one playoff game. Except Kirk.
They've produced 8 Super Bowl victories? Kirk has zero.
They've produced what, 14-15 Super bowl appearances? Kirk has zero.
They've produced Championship appearances, and victories. Not Kirk.

And I believe they all had to produce more than Kirk has, in these categories, to get the big contracts that they have.
Not on speculation.

The teams they led won those games. You think Brady is a near Super Bowl annual participant with the Team Kirk has around him? No freaking way. It's a completely unfair and biased comparison to use as a measuring stick for Kirk after two years as a starter. Was Dan Marino an elite QB? How many championships did he bring home? It's just not an accurate measuring stick at this point to say he can't win the big games after two years with a talent poor team. You want to use Super Bowl wins as the measuring stick for Elite, that's fine. I don't agree, and I'm not implying that I think Kirk is Elite. He still has areas to improve in. But most of you willing to cast him aside were convinced he'd never be more than a turnover machine, or never lead the team to a win over a team with a winning record and so on. Each point against, he's checked off, and there's zero reason to think he won't check off "winning the big game".

 

[stevenaa]

I swear if he led the team to a Super Bowl victory, there would be some wanting him gone because they're convinced he's not good enough to win more than one.

 

[Boone]

It's valid to ask 'Why should we pay Kirk Cousins top tier $$ when he hasn't proven he's a top tier QB yet. 100% valid. It's not valid to make the basis for not paying him a big money contract that he hasn't won a playoff game by his 2nd year as a full time starter.

We need to pay the man. But it needs to be a reasonable deal reflective of his demonstrated skills and 'potential'. That's not top tier QB $$$ though.

 

[Chris]

Some team is going to be willing to overpay him. There is always one. With all of the very real needs this team has, the question is- will it be the Redskins.

 

[DixieFlatline]

So have we jumped the gun on Kirk and if so, how?

The guy has had back to back seasons where he rewrote the record book for this franchise and yet you want to throw him out in the street and have this team jump back into the briar patch called the NFL Wilderness?

The whole notion of: Well, let him walk or trade him off...we can always find another QB....after this club just spent 20 years looking for one...utterly ridiculous.

Letting Kirk go will set this team back years...

But hey, I hear Rex Grossman still wants to play, let's go THAT route again.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

 

[stevenaa]

It's valid to ask 'Why should we pay Kirk Cousins top tier $$ when he hasn't proven he's a top tier QB yet. 100% valid. It's not valid to make the basis for not paying him a big money contract that he hasn't won a playoff game by his 2nd year as a full time starter.

We need to pay the man. But it needs to be a reasonable deal reflective of his demonstrated skills and 'potential'. That's not top tier QB $$$ though.

It's valid but largely irrelevant. QB's are always gonna be overpaid. Just the way it is. You have to pay the market value. His numbers are going to demand a large contract and it's likely to be one of highest ones. In a year or two it won't be. I don't see any way around it. You have to pay market price for him.

 

[Ax]

The teams they led won those games.

Correct. Just as the team got Kirk his numbers. Yes?

You think Brady is a near Super Bowl annual participant with the Team Kirk has around him? No freaking way.

No. That's why I didn't say he did.

It's a completely unfair and biased comparison to use as a measuring stick for Kirk after two years as a starter.

No more so than using favorable stats are to measure him up to the best QB's in the league.

Was Dan Marino an elite QB? How many championships did he bring home?

Absolutely he was elite. From the minute he stepped on the field, as a rookie.
And for those interested, (Norv Gruden) he also helps show that regardless of good Shula was, he never supplied the man with a consistent run game, or defense. So thanks for kinda making my point. Big flashy passing stats don't really mean much. Yes?

It's just not an accurate measuring stick at this point to say he can't win the big games after two years with a talent poor team.

It's also unfair to compare his stats, that won nothing but stats, to guys who actually won something. Or, to the guys who had less stats, and won more with them.

You want to use Super Bowl wins as the measuring stick for Elite, that's fine. I don't agree, and I'm not implying that I think Kirk is Elite.

No, I use winning big games/performing under the bright lights as a measuring stick for earned income. Elite, is a whole 'nother animal. I don't give out the "elite" to half as many as some do. So yeah, I do have my own scale. lol

But most of you willing to cast him aside were convinced he'd never be more than a turnover machine,

he still is, in the "Big One"

or never lead the team to a win over a team with a winning record and so on.

Pointing out the fact that he hadn't, at the time, is a far cry from saying he never would.

Each point against, he's checked off,

partially

and there's zero reason to think he won't check off "winning the big game".

And yet there's no guarantee that he will either.

 

[JohnssBass]

Market value per Spotrac:

5 yrs, $117,210,105

Avg. Salary: $23,442,021
NFL Rank: #4
QB Rank: #4

link: Kirk Cousins Contract Details, Salary Cap Breakdowns, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

Using their basis, I can see how they got to this. Basically, 4 QB's who signed their contracts at about his age and comparing some measurables with all 5. Luck, Ryan, Flacco & Tannehill are the 4.
A lot of different ways to determine market value and this may or not be accurate at the end of the day but using their methodology it looks like a decent market value estimate.

 

[Miles Monroe]

I don't see how we can't pay him the money for a top starter, and keep him. Sure, we have needs all over the place, and others that are in contract years we want to sign, but we're looking good with the cap space available. If there was a time to take a shot at a long term QB without completely handicapping the team financially if he doesn't pan out, this is it. It's not like we're givin up the farm for a QB coming out of college.... a real crap shoot as we have found out more then once. We'd be giving a durable QB we know a hell of a lot about, the going rate for a starting QB with his ranking. He's doing his job very well, just build around him. While there is always some, this is pretty low risk.... and we can afford to pay him. Folks remember Eli wining a couple of Super Bowls. They forget he was a turn over machine, and stunk it up often enough. I think the two QB's are quite similar in what they need to succeed. Where they differ is Eli has had good teams assembled around him many of his seasons.

 

[Boone]

Nice post Pete. I keep saying it - Kirk Cousins will never ever be cheaper than he is right now. If the team had had some balls last year we could've gotten him for a relative bargain. Those hoping we trade him for picks - I have to ask, have you watched teams draft QBs for the past 20 years?? It's a total crapshoot. That's fools gold.


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[Ax]

Don't have to use any picks on a QB in this draft.

 

[Boone]

You have to have one though Ax - and a good one. You may be the only man in America that believes Colt McCoy can fill that bill - I mean unless you're including Colt


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[Win4us]

You have to have one though Ax - and a good one. You may be the only man in America that believes Colt McCoy can fill that bill - I mean unless you're including Colt


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Colt would like a word with you sir.....

 

[Ax]

You have to have one though Ax - and a good one. You may be the only man in America that believes Colt McCoy can fill that bill - I mean unless you're including Colt

I absolutely believe we can win with Colt. Would the passing game slip some? Sure. But that might not be a bad thing. If the overall team talent is improved, especially on the defensive side of the ball, and serious dedication to the run game is applied, no reason he couldn't get the job done. Gives Nate another season learning the system too. Who knows what we may, or may not have, in him.

I know I'm pissin' in the wind here. Unless the January/February surprise is Gruden getting fired after McCloo's new choice becomes available from the 4 remaining post season teams, they'll resign Kirk. They'd be foolish to give Gruden a built in excuse for getting fired, should he continue his failures as a head coach. For the kind of money they're talking though, we'd be better off using the franchise tag again. That way, should Gruden get fired, the next coach won't be tethered to a QB he might not want.

And, as I've said numerous times, I hope Kirk is signed to a reasonable contract, and rides a path to the HOF, as a Redskin. I hope Gruden actually does win multiple Lombardi's, as the Redskins coach.
Problem is, Gruden's being paid like he's already won SB's. I just don't believe we should do the same thing with Kirk.

 

[Knightingale]

Nice post Pete. I keep saying it - Kirk Cousins will never ever be cheaper than he is right now. If the team had had some balls last year we could've gotten him for a relative bargain. Those hoping we trade him for picks - I have to ask, have you watched teams draft QBs for the past 20 years?? It's a total crapshoot. That's fools gold.


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I think 2012 was fresh in their minds last year. Once bitten, twice shy.

I have no problem really waiting a year to make sure he was what it said on the tin.
We can absorb his cost, and likely in a couple of years with Cap increases and as other QBs get more money it'll not be an issue


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