Kirk Cousins Development Tracker

[Goaldeje]

Minus the interception......one could argue he was great.

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. It's OK to admit that Kirk didn't play a great game yesterday. The INT was horrible, the pass to Reed that Jones caught was a bad decision, and now we're hearing that the TO fiasco was partly Kirk's fault.

He played well enough to win (obviously), but wasn't great.

 

[bird_1972]

Kirk has the opportunity to do what has not been done in Washington in 29 years...throw for 4000 yards.

Some will discount this as a meaningless statistic, but it's something we have not seen in a long time.

While it would be a nice bar to clear, what is concerning is that the reason Kirk is passing for so many yards is because of our lack of effective running game.

Nice for Kirk, but not really good for the team as a whole.

 

[Fear The Spear]

And if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle. It's OK to admit that Kirk didn't play a great game yesterday. The INT was horrible, the pass to Reed that Jones caught was a bad decision, and now we're hearing that the TO fiasco was partly Kirk's fault.

He played well enough to win (obviously), but wasn't great.

measured against what standard?

77% accuracy, on 31 passes and 300 yards is great, by any standard.
And the stats don't even reflect how good he was. Repeatedly he threaded the needle in tight coverage.
The pass that tipped to Jones, was perfectly thrown to Reed, and wasn't Cousins' fault it was tipped - not to mention he made the throw on the run, under intense pressure, and the completion was a key to extending the drive, and winning the game. Another mark of a playmaker and great player, playing a great game.
As for the interception. Yea, even great players throw interceptions once in a while. And those great players bounce back from it. Which is exactly what Kirk did.

 

[Goaldeje]

Sorry, I disagree. That was a throw that Cousin made across his body, across the field that he shouldn't have thrown. That is EXACTLY the type of play Brett Favre got crushed for. He got bailed out because we got lucky, for roughly the first time this entire season.

And I went back and looked at the pick, and it was a dreadful decision. Not sure how he didn't the LB underneath, but he missed him completely.

Cousins has played much better games than this one, imo; and probably will again. One of my points was that I didn't think Cousins played terribly and we still won. That's a GOOD thing.

 

[TomE]

measured against what standard?

Why Kirk Cousins of course, is there any other 'standard' we should use?
Thought this was a development tracker, what does his performance curve look like and what parameters are used to determine that curve?

Maybe our local stats geeks can get on board and setup a performance curve so we can track him.
Don't know what base line and other stuff can be used to make everyone happy with the results but it might be interesting as opposed to our 'subjective' gut feelings on how the guy looked during a game.

I'm reminded of the time when 'it' was discussed and what players displayed the trait. There was a discussion on how to quantify 'it', no one could answer with anything more substantial than you'll know 'it' when you see 'it'.

So maybe we should ask if Kirk has 'it'.....

 

[GSF]

Minus the interception......one could argue he was great.

Cousins has had a few great games this season, but this wasn't one of them imo, even minus the interception. I would call it a good game in hostile territory, good enough to win the game. He did make a few bad decisions though, and he was holding the ball a little long in the first half. It was a good game though for him overall, and I hope to see him continue to improve.

 

[fansince62]

77% accuracy, on 31 passes and 300 yards is great, by any standard.
And the stats don't even reflect how good he was. Repeatedly he threaded the needle in tight coverage.
The pass that tipped to Jones, was perfectly thrown to Reed, and wasn't Cousins' fault it was tipped - not to mention he made the throw on the run, under intense pressure, and the completion was a key to extending the drive, and winning the game. Another mark of a playmaker and great player, playing a great game.
As for the interception. Yea, even great players throw interceptions once in a while. And those great players bounce back from it. Which is exactly what Kirk did.

roger that! in short....whatever you say it is....in a league where 400 plus yards became the threshold of excellence as rule changes successively favored the passing game.

I'll simply ignore the posts vis when things go wrong Kirk is suddenly short on development time and mistakes can be expected.

man o man....it's gonna be supremely expensive resigning this guy...what with his already established greatness!

 

[servumtuum]

roger that! in short....whatever you say it is....in a league where 400 plus yards became the threshold of excellence as rule changes successively favored the passing game.

I'll simply ignore the posts vis when things go wrong Kirk is suddenly short on development time and mistakes can be expected.

man o man....it's gonna be supremely expensive resigning this guy...what with his already established greatness!

Of course this could be turned around in the form of the following question:

Given that the terms "excellence" and "greatness", themselves being abstract concepts qualified or even quantified by personally adopted criteria; what, if any, correlation can they be measured to have in relation to successful team performance? It isn't as though every SB capable or even playoff capable team has a "great" or even "excellent" QB at the helm-the history of the Redskins themselves has provided evidence of that.

I tend to use a descriptive "good enough when combined with the team and coaching support system to be seriously reckoned with" which allows performance observation to be the means of gauging both improvements and accomplishments both in relation to other teams in the league and trends in improvement/deterioration in team components as well as system-wide team performance.

 

[Chris]

No, in my opinion Cousins does not have "it", few at that position do though. He is, however becoming one that could be good enough with a good group around him.

 

[Goaldeje]

No, in my opinion Cousins does not have "it", few at that position do though. He is, however becoming one that could be good enough with a good group around him.

Yeah, this is to me the more interesting question. I don't see Kirk as ever being in the Rodgers/Brady pantheon, though I would love to be proven wrong. So how good does the team around him have to be? I don't see him being as bad as Trent Dilfer (side note: must suck to be Dilfer, huh? Poor bastard, gets brought up everytime in this conversation), but how much better does our offense need to be to make a SB run? THAT I think is the most germane question.

I would posit that our WRs are solid, we need TE depth and another year or two drafting along the OLine and I think the O will be in pretty good shape.

The D on the other hand, needs some major help. Someone said they would spend one pick on the OLine and the remaining on D recently, and it might come to that.

 

[Chris]

I would like to see a big wr added, one that can go get a ball. I'm okay with Garçon, Crowder and Jackson but Grant, Roberts and Ross do nothing for me. A badass center is a must. Spend the rest of the draft focusing on linebackers and secondary.

 

[Elephant]

I would posit that our WRs are solid, we need TE depth and another year or two drafting along the OLine and I think the O will be in pretty good shape. .

I have to disagree with this. The one thing that gets over looked, often when people don't see games in person, is that the only receiver that gets open consistently past 15 yards in Desean Jackson. Even Garcon has a difficult time separating from the defenders down the field. And no, Jamison Crowder as good as he's been, does not get open past 15 yards.

Grant and Ross are exactly what they are, late round draft picks who cannot get past 4th or 5th on the depth chart for a reason, they're just not that good.

Andre Roberts? No.

We need someone big, strong and fast to take pressure of Garcon's double teams, other than Desean.

 

[GSF]

We need someone big, strong and fast to take pressure of Garcon's double teams, other than Desean.

Jordan Reed?

 

[Elephant]

Jordan Reed?

We're talking about WR's...we need another WR, someone with some size, who can block on the edge and who can get open down the field.

Reed is a damn fine pass catching TE, but Garcon is still getting double teamed, or at the very least chipped as he go into his route. We simply need another WR who can do the things I mentioned.

Garcon is a damn good WR, he could be successful for 4-6 more years, much like Anquan Bolden, but he needs help...other than a good TE and only one other WR threat.

 

[Goaldeje]

We're talking about WR's...we need another WR, someone with some size, who can block on the edge and who can get open down the field.

Reed is a damn fine pass catching TE, but Garcon is still getting double teamed, or at the very least chipped as he go into his route. We simply need another WR who can do the things I mentioned.

Garcon is a damn good WR, he could be successful for 4-6 more years, much like Anquan Bolden, but he needs help...other than a good TE and only one other WR threat.

I can agree with all that, though our offensive production hasn't generally been much of an issue this year. Looking at the big picture, it seems to me that maybe the D needs more help than the O.

 

[fansince62]

Of course this could be turned around in the form of the following question:

Given that the terms "excellence" and "greatness", themselves being abstract concepts qualified or even quantified by personally adopted criteria; what, if any, correlation can they be measured to have in relation to successful team performance? It isn't as though every SB capable or even playoff capable team has a "great" or even "excellent" QB at the helm-the history of the Redskins themselves has provided evidence of that.

I tend to use a descriptive "good enough when combined with the team and coaching support system to be seriously reckoned with" which allows performance observation to be the means of gauging both improvements and accomplishments both in relation to other teams in the league and trends in improvement/deterioration in team components as well as system-wide team performance.

good points Serv! though I would argue what you're really saying is that there is high correlation among the component variables - which makes it exceedingly difficult to allocate individual measures.

IRT Cousins.....I'm actually riding it out in the sense of wait and see. He obviously has skills that translate to success. He also has some demonstrable weaknesses. In terms of performance....I'll jump onboard with all the premature e-speculation when I see him leading/carrying a team to victory...in the playoffs...against the top tier teams (i.e., the 2-3 teams that have superlative QBs, quality coaching staffs, and comparable or better talent). that's what I want to see. it's pleasant that some progress has been achieved relative to the last two seasons.

I am most focused on how McL reshapes and redesigns this team - he will be the chief architect and strategist...the CEO for success as it were. Gruden, if he survives, will be the operations officer. Right now....I'm trying to figure out if Cousins is an Alex Smith type of player. It'll take a couple seasons to answer that question.

 

[fansince62]

I have to disagree with this. The one thing that gets over looked, often when people don't see games in person, is that the only receiver that gets open consistently past 15 yards in Desean Jackson. Even Garcon has a difficult time separating from the defenders down the field. And no, Jamison Crowder as good as he's been, does not get open past 15 yards.

Grant and Ross are exactly what they are, late round draft picks who cannot get past 4th or 5th on the depth chart for a reason, they're just not that good.

Andre Roberts? No.

We need someone big, strong and fast to take pressure of Garcon's double teams, other than Desean.

and for the red zone....I have been advocating this for years! as you know.....

 

[Om]

I'm not sure anyone thinks Kirk will ever be a guy who can carry an otherwise crappy team like an Elway or Rodgers or even Brady ... the arm strength to make plays downfield when throwing off his back foot or off-balance platforms simply isn't there. He's going to need a competent team around him--a solid defense, and a running game that other teams have to at least respect.

To me, the fact we're a game under .500 at this late in the season and haven't had an NFL running game since week 2, and the fact that seems to have overcome both the "INT machine" and "not clutch" labels, speak pretty well for the guy. Particularly given the circumstances he inherited the job under, becoming the starter on the eve of the regular season without having taken more than a few first-team reps all offseason.

The man has cleared some pretty high hurdles in 2015, and done it in the face of withering doubt and scrutiny. And his teammates, by all accounts, are completely behind him.

I'm sure we all define "it" differently, but I think it's fair to say at this point one could reasonably argue he's got something.

 

[CounterTrey]

That is mitigated IMO by the fact that the offense has been slimmed down and stretch plays have all but been eliminated by Gruden because Cousins can't reliably execute them. His arm strength is in need of some help. That 18th in YPA speaks volumes to me. Very solid QB and given the right situation can certainly succeed, but his IT factor has several limitations. I know every QB has INT's dropped but Kirk's been super lucky in that regard of late.

 

[TomE]

.......
To me, the fact we're a game under .500 at this late in the season and haven't had an NFL running game since week 2, and the fact that seems to have overcome both the "INT machine" and "not clutch" labels, speak pretty well for the guy. Particularly given the circumstances he inherited the job under, becoming the starter on the eve of the regular season without having taken more than a few first-team reps all offseason.

The man has cleared some pretty high hurdles in 2015, and done it in the face of withering doubt and scrutiny. And his teammates, by all accounts, are completely behind him.

I'm sure we all define "it" differently, but I think it's fair to say at this point one could reasonably argue he's got something.

Nice,

Agree, right now he doesn't need to be 'all', just very good and continue to hone the tools he's gifted with.

Don't know if arm strength can be increased but I do recall a story about Griff, who we all seem to agree has that trait, when he was doing rehab in school after his first ACL.

Unable to use his legs he threw passes from a sitting position, I believe primarily to hone accuracy, one side effect might have been working the torso enough to actually gain strength through the upper body passing motion, add in a good set of legs and we have a different animal altogether.