RG3 Development Tracker 2015

[TomE]

Don't forget we've got two newbies on the right side and they've got to get a handle on everything.

No harm in getting them plenty of live game run action along with the pass pro.

If we're going to hang our hat on the run game, we'd better be dang good at it.

The solution is to have starters in for more than a quarter, I guess we'll have to wait for that 'third' game.

 

[fansince62]

I wish the Skins would dump that fade route to the corner. 9 times out of 10 that play is best designed for a taller receiver who is going to win the jump ball contest. we don't have that type receiver in the starting line-up.

 

[fansince62]

btw......I have never seen a first preseason game so over-hyped in terms of post-game analysis.

aside from the usual - plays called to focus on specific players - one would hope there is a plan in play for players such as Griffen that successively examines different aspects of the fundamentals AND unique strengths they bring to the offense. IMO...that's precisely what McL passed to Gruden when they first covered the longer-term plan for how the team was going to be built. I think McL has a different pov on how Griffen can be used....but that both agree the sands are running out of the Griffen hourglass and that performance needs to be there in no uncertain terms this season.

 

[MikeSr619]

There isn't much else to discuss.

 

[GSF]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I was far from excited about Griffin's play. I would say he improved from horrible to just pretty bad. Most of his throws were inaccurate, and he took 2 huge hits in just 2 short series. Dude takes way too many big hits.

OK I said this after the first pre-season game and was told Griffin looked fine and was improving. Last night he was literally knocked out of the game after 1 quarter. Yes pass protection was very poor, but Griffin's lack of pocket awareness and tendancy to hold the ball too long combined with that kind of oline play is a recipe for disaster. I'm sorry guys, but unless we see some sort of miracle with RG3's play, this guy is done. There is no way he makes it through half the season if he doesn't quickly figure out how to get rid of the ball quickly and stop taking these vicious hits. He looks like a fish out of water back there flip flopping around, fumbling the ball, and getting smashed from all angles.

RG3 is going into his 4th year. He's not a rookie. He should understand these things by now. Noone is talking about Andrew Luck's developement, or Russell Wilson's or Tannehill's. Get ready to be cheering for Cousins and/or McCoy this season, because they will play more games than RG3.

 

[Om]

I'm still wrestling with this, but I will admit to having the thought in my head last night, and again this morning, that all the hopeful talk about his performance in training camp, and the it-wasn't-so-bad talk about last week, might have all fallen on its face last night along with our quarterback.

I've gone back and watched each of the six hits he took last night several times (NFL Game Pass rocks), and I keep coming away thinking the same thing ... the man simply does not feel the pass rush and move effectively in the pocket. He just doesn't. Other QB's get sacked behind poor OL's--it's part of the game. What I have never seen before is one guy get crushed full-on more often.

I had hoped to see THAT development as much as anything ... to see him slide subtly in the pocket, move up a step, drift right or left a half-step, turn a shoulder to let a rusher by ... and then deliver the ball. Maybe take a hit in order to deliver to an open guy, but learn to protect this body take a sack without it being Foreman on Joe Frazier every single time. Brady gets his. Rodgers gets hit. They just seem to know how to subtly adjust their bodies to take the hit without major damage.

I dunno. It's sad, and maddening. No one started out four years ago more in Bob's corner than I was. Maybe Boone, but it was close. Today? I may not be "done" with the man, but I can really start to see it from here.

 

[Goaldeje]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm seeing Om. I think that Gruden has been painted into a corner where he has to run plays that cater to Robert's strengths, particularly early on in a game, or Robert is lost. And I'm not convinced Gruden is smart enough to do that.

Those hits last night were vicious. Once that avalanche starts, I don't think Robert is strong enough, mentally, emotionally, whatever, to over come it, reset, and keep moving forward. Otherwise, Robert not only gets swallowed up by the avalanche, he almost perversely becomes the avalanche. That play last night where he was knocked out of the game was a microcosm of his career in some ways. When things are going well, he is unstoppable. Or was. Literally unstoppable - that's not hyperbole. But Kyle has been the only coach who could figure out how to put him in that position so far. Once one thing goes wrong, it's like quicksand for Robert.

And unfortunately, Gruden is leading him right to the quicksand instead of attempting to figure out how to avoid it all together.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm seeing Om. I think that Gruden has been painted into a corner where he has to run plays that cater to Robert's strengths, particularly early on in a game, or Robert is lost. And I'm not convinced Gruden is smart enough to do that.

Those hits last night were vicious. Once that avalanche starts, I don't think Robert is strong enough, mentally, emotionally, whatever, to over come it, reset, and keep moving forward. Otherwise, Robert not only gets swallowed up by the avalanche, he almost perversely becomes the avalanche. That play last night where he was knocked out of the game was a microcosm of his career in some ways. When things are going well, he is unstoppable. Or was. Literally unstoppable - that's not hyperbole. But Kyle has been the only coach who could figure out how to put him in that position so far. Once one thing goes wrong, it's like quicksand for Robert.

And unfortunately, Gruden is leading him right to the quicksand instead of attempting to figure out how to avoid it all together.

But lets look at the core of it. The vast majority seem to think that for 1 reason or another, Griffin is broken beyond repair. If you're Gruden, are you going to spend the time at training camps, preseason games, weekly practices, and meeting time, catering an offense to Griffin who to this point hasn't been able to prove durability? Would you cater your entire offense to 1 guy, an offense that his backup players are not exactly prototypes for, leaving it so that IF he goes down, you've now trained 24 offensive players to play with Kirk Cousins or Colt McCoy leading?

 

[Om]

Goal, I'm just not sure how he'd do that beyond reverting to the 2012 offense. Which I don't think Bob is physically capable of any more--he never did have any 'wiggle' to his game, it was all blazing speed. That part of his game is gone forever.

But even if it wasn't, I don't think Jay or any other NFL head coach would opt to go forward with a QB who simply cannot operate in the pocket. All the read-option, pistol stuff is awesome, but at some point it's going to be 3rd and 11, and if the offense is going to succeed, the QB is going to have to be competent in the pocket. There just is no way around it. And that's the part I really am starting to wonder if Bob will ever be able to get, because I don't think it's learnable so much as it is instinctive.

I don't see how Jay could NOT expose Bob to that in preseason. If not now, when? Against the Dolphins? Or in preseason, when it doesn't really matter if you score any points? We could run pistol, read-option all preseason with Bob, and maybe light it up and head into Miami week thinking we're good to go ... but I'd have hated to find out on opening day just how far away he is from being able to operate in a pocket.

Not really arguing here, btw. Just thinking out loud. It's cathartic.

 

[Goaldeje]

But lets look at the core of it. The vast majority seem to think that for 1 reason or another, Griffin is broken beyond repair. If you're Gruden, are you going to spend the time at training camps, preseason games, weekly practices, and meeting time, catering an offense to Griffin who to this point hasn't been able to prove durability? Would you cater your entire offense to 1 guy, an offense that his backup players are not exactly prototypes for, leaving it so that IF he goes down, you've now trained 24 offensive players to play with Kirk Cousins or Colt McCoy leading?

Going into TC, MOST people would tell you that Robert gave us the best chance to win, and to possibly win big. Now? I'm not so sure. I think with a better head coach, that could possibly be the case. But Gruden is a buffoon, incapable of leading, and he has terrible judgment to boot. I don't see how this season goes well, largely because of who is at the helm of our ship.

 

[GSF]

Going into TC, MOST people would tell you that Robert gave us the best chance to win, and to possibly win big. Now? I'm not so sure. I think with a better head coach, that could possibly be the case. But Gruden is a buffoon, incapable of leading, and he has terrible judgment to boot. I don't see how this season goes well, largely because of who is at the helm of our ship.

Either that or Gruden knew the only way he would keep his job was to support and play RG3, no matter what he actually thought of him.

 

[GSF]

It's such a bummer man. I, like many, had such high hopes for Griffin, nevermind how much the team gave up to get him.

 

[Goaldeje]

Mark, I hear you, and agree with a lot of what you're saying. But you appear to be putting the majority of the blame on Griffin, and I am simply arguing that Gruden should enjoy his share of that blame. Gruden and Griffin have some weird, whatever-the-opposite-of-symbiotic-is relationship where they make each other worse. At least in my eyes. The solution in preseason is indeed to throw Robert whatever you want your QB to do to gauge his preparedness for the regular season. But, and this is a Sir-Mix-aLot-size BUTT, Gruden has to keep a close eye on things and not let his QB get punched in the mouth repeatedly. 8 pass attempts, 6 hits on Griffin and one batted down pass. Stevie Wonder was screaming at the screen that it wasn't working.

Run something different. Or remove him from the game. Stop trying to do the whole square peg round hole thing.

In the regular season, if Gruden does this shit, he really should be fired. My argument isn't to rework the entire offense; just run a few plays that Griffin is comfortable and confident with to get his confidence going. Hell, run the ball some. Novel idea there. Griffin's psyche is weak, so stop putting stress on it, particularly early in games. Maybe, MAYBE that's how the season could be salvaged.

But more than likely, Griffin and Gruden will continue to be the albatross around each other's necks and ultimately prove to be the undoing of each other.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Going into TC, MOST people would tell you that Robert gave us the best chance to win, and to possibly win big. Now? I'm not so sure. I think with a better head coach, that could possibly be the case. But Gruden is a buffoon, incapable of leading, and he has terrible judgment to boot. I don't see how this season goes well, largely because of who is at the helm of our ship.

I agree he gave us the best chance. But lets say we devote our entire system back to read option. That means the O-line, the WR, the TE, the RB, the Backup QBs are completely entrenched in learning read option. Do you have the 100% confidence that the rest of that team can execute that style of offense if Griffin goes down?



In addition to that, if Gruden is not intending on keeping Griffin here, why wouldn't he install a game plan and system he plans on building for and running 3 years from now? He's got a whole team he's got to look out for, more-so then Griffin. As crappy as that sounds it's the gods honest truth.

 

[MikeSr619]

I agree he gave us the best chance. But lets say we devote our entire system back to read option. That means the O-line, the WR, the TE, the RB, the Backup QBs are completely entrenched in learning read option. Do you have the 100% confidence that the rest of that team can execute that style of offense if Griffin goes down?



In addition to that, if Gruden is not intending on keeping Griffin here, why wouldn't he install a game plan and system he plans on building for and running 3 years from now? He's got a whole team he's got to look out for, more-so then Griffin. As crappy as that sounds it's the gods honest truth.

why would we have to devote our entire system to the read option? Griffin can run the conventional offense with play action and roll outs...he also has a 2 headed beast in runners behind him he can lean on. He doesn't need to be the sole focus of the offense nor do I think that is good for anyone.

I am now more under the impression that Gruden is silently killing off Griffin's chances here. Last year he was very vocal about it and it made him look bad. I am not against believing he is doing it still but quieter.

 

[Goaldeje]

I agree he gave us the best chance. But lets say we devote our entire system back to read option. That means the O-line, the WR, the TE, the RB, the Backup QBs are completely entrenched in learning read option. Do you have the 100% confidence that the rest of that team can execute that style of offense if Griffin goes down?



In addition to that, if Gruden is not intending on keeping Griffin here, why wouldn't he install a game plan and system he plans on building for and running 3 years from now? He's got a whole team he's got to look out for, more-so then Griffin. As crappy as that sounds it's the gods honest truth.

Sorry I didn't explain myself well. Mike already hit it nicely, but from my perspective, why not sprinkle in a few roll outs, PA, zone reads, whatever to get him a little more comfortable moving forward? That's not retooling the offense, it's playing to a player's strengths.

 

[MikeSr619]

They do that with McCoy when hes in. I just don't get why they don't let the guy have a couple of plays where he gets comfortable, gets the feel of the game, and gets in to a rhythm. Make him stay in the pocket as well, make him learn all those things...but, damn man, let the guy at least succeed somewhere! It's like Gruden just doesn't want him to have success.

 

[Primus Porcus]

They do that with McCoy when hes in. I just don't get why they don't let the guy have a couple of plays where he gets comfortable, gets the feel of the game, and gets in to a rhythm. Make him stay in the pocket as well, make him learn all those things...but, damn man, let the guy at least succeed somewhere! It's like Gruden just doesn't want him to have success.

If Gruden is working against Griffin then he's damning himself out of a job. He's not McCloughan's guy, so (in my opinion) his job is as secure for next year as Griffin's is. I've been a mild supporter of Gruden's, but if he's doing this on purpose, good riddance.

 

[Elephant]

I am now more under the impression that Gruden is silently killing off Griffin's chances here. Last year he was very vocal about it and it made him look bad. I am not against believing he is doing it still but quieter.

My friend, RG3 is doing a good enough job of that on his own.

 

[MikeSr619]

My friend, RG3 is doing a good enough job of that on his own.

My friend, your opinion will always be with a lb of salt. Love ya!