RG3 Development Tracker 2015

[Ax]

No, let's not say 50%.

Let's recalculate using 20% Roberts fault. Or, partial fault. 70% Oline's fault, and 10% coaching.

 

[Ax]

OK let's see how this year will play out......Robert starts game one, into the 3rd qtr of a close game, trent gets a stinger and must leave for a few plays. Wait, time out, pull Griffin, put in the sub until our #1 line is back in. Trent comes back in Griffin comes back in. Ooops Scherf goes out with an ankle. Pull Griffin, put in the sub.

Honestly, I don't know that I have seen any NFL team during any of my years of watching NFL pull out their QB because another player is hurt. The NFL is about "the next man up".

If we're not game planning those games during the regular season, then yes, by all means, pull the starters.

 

[Goaldeje]

It's. The. Preseason.

 

[Primus Porcus]

It's. The. Preseason.

Ok... so it's fair to say in the preseason that Gruden is failing, but because it's the preseason Griffin gets a pass?


If you're going to tell me that Gruden is the head coach and he should know better, but Griffin is the player and he's only doing what he's told... how about we start elevating the expectations of everyone. Griffin is not playing well enough and personal accountability for him has been lost. I think this is a mentality that McCloughan has brought in. If Griffin is going to be a starting QB in the NFL, playing behind a struggling line is part of that equation. The line is getting addressed, but in the overall history of the league, it's a pretty regular occurance that an O-lineman goes down. It's going to happen, and adapting and compensating is part of what we need to expect from a QB. If we are in a playoff race and Williams goes down *knock knock* does that mean we stop trying, or do we want Griffin to be able to continue?

The O-line is an absolute factor in his struggles, he's been getting beat up for 3 years now, but for 3 years he's seen what it's like to get beat up behind a bad O-line, and he continues to get happy feet, hold the ball, miss reads, and look absolutely dysfunctional when attempting to stay in the pocket.

 

[Goaldeje]

Silent, I'm not explaining myself well. My problem with Gruden is that I don't understand what he hoped to accomplish by leaving Griffin in there. Nowhere have I said that Griffin is blameless. Griffin, since 2013 has played really, REALLY poorly. Personally, I believe there is a lot of blame to go around for his performance: the organization, Snyder, Shanahan, Gruden, and definitely a large portion lies with Robert himself for the way he has handled things and his own lack of development.

Up to this point, I have felt that there was a possibility that he could become an NFL QB. I do not believe that anymore, at least not here with this coaching staff. I haven't believed he could regain the 2012 form, I've felt that was too much to ask for. But given where we have been, with the shithead of QBs we've had to endure (Matthews, Wuerful, George, Rex, ohmygodimaykillmyselfifikeeptypingthesenames), I felt it was worth a shot to stick with Griffin for a bit.

Now I don't. As I've said before, Griffin and Gruden have some weird dynamic going where they drag each other down. Gruden was already bordering on being a lost cause in my book. With this stupidity Thursday night, he's done. The sooner we're done with them both, the better. If Gruden isn't smart enough to evaluate that he needs to call some different plays, or that Griffin is ineffective behind a seive of an OLine, then I don't want him as a coach. Evaluating different scenarios in the preseason is fine, hell that's what the preseason is for. But if it took him that long, especially after last year, to see that Griffin is not a great QB when his OLine is shit, then he's stupid. Just plain stupid. If evaluation was his goal, he had enough data at that point to make an informed decision and analysis.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Leaving him in is exposing him to live fire reps. He's got to give Griffin every chance to get through this, and trying to do it only in practice obviously hasn't worked. Do I think Griffin has what it takes? I've absolutely got my doubts.... but I want him to succeed. I'm going to root for him as long as he wears the jersey of the Washington Redskins, so I hope I'm not just coming across like a hater with all this. I am in the same boat you are that I don't think Griffin currently has what it's going to take to be a star anymore. IF he's gonna ever get to that point, GAME TIME is the last thing we can throw at this kid to see if he can get to that point. He HAS to witness this stuff first hand because he didn't get put through this over the last 10 years of his playing career. These things are going to happen. Other QBs grow up playing a certain style, so over time they develop that knack for feeling pressure, knowing the pocket, and going downfield. He doesn't have that 'training' so it's been condensed into 2 (going into 3) seasons of him playing behind a bad line. You can't replicate this in practice. Game reps are the only thing that can truly duplicate the speed of the game. It hurts, it sucks, it's painful to watch this, but if he has ANY chance of making it as an NFL Qb now (because I also don't think he can be 2012 RG3 again) he's going to have to experience these things, and it's going to be up to him to work on avoiding this stuff. No matter where he goes, if he's getting better at protecting himself in bad situations, he's gonna get killed.

 

[MikeSr619]

I don't see how getting him live reps means a thing when he's been hit so many times he can't get any play off.

Chalk it up, move on, remember it's just the second preseason game. That's what a smart coach does.

 

[Goaldeje]

Leaving him in is exposing him to live fire reps. He's got to give Griffin every chance to get through this, and trying to do it only in practice obviously hasn't worked. Do I think Griffin has what it takes? I've absolutely got my doubts.... but I want him to succeed. I'm going to root for him as long as he wears the jersey of the Washington Redskins, so I hope I'm not just coming across like a hater with all this. I am in the same boat you are that I don't think Griffin currently has what it's going to take to be a star anymore. IF he's gonna ever get to that point, GAME TIME is the last thing we can throw at this kid to see if he can get to that point. He HAS to witness this stuff first hand because he didn't get put through this over the last 10 years of his playing career. These things are going to happen. Other QBs grow up playing a certain style, so over time they develop that knack for feeling pressure, knowing the pocket, and going downfield. He doesn't have that 'training' so it's been condensed into 2 (going into 3) seasons of him playing behind a bad line. You can't replicate this in practice. Game reps are the only thing that can truly duplicate the speed of the game. It hurts, it sucks, it's painful to watch this, but if he has ANY chance of making it as an NFL Qb now (because I also don't think he can be 2012 RG3 again) he's going to have to experience these things, and it's going to be up to him to work on avoiding this stuff. No matter where he goes, if he's getting better at protecting himself in bad situations, he's gonna get killed.

Smith was terrible. TERRIBLE. I just don't see what Robert could have learned on Thursday? He was playing ineffectively, if Gruden had benched him, I'd have been fine with that. Shit, if Gruden came out today and benched him for the next preseason game, I'd have more respect for him. Griffin played terribly. Gruden continues to make a bad situation worse. Time to move on from both, but it sucks that we're only halfway through the preseason.

 

[Primus Porcus]

Because you get hit enough times, you start focusing on the tape and the reps to learn the pocket. I didn't WANT him to get killed, but I also applauded the fact that he came back out that first series of the 2nd quarter. I don't want him to get hurt, but under pressure reps, naturally develops the ability to sense pressure. You get crunched enough times, you start to learn what hurts, and how to take a hit with less of that crunch to it.

This is not by any means what I'm rooting for to happen... I don't WANT him to get hurt. I do WANT him to learn to sense pressure, even if our O-Line is struggling.

On the other end of that, I do understand that if you continue to perpetuate this, he could get completely dismantled and it's all for naught anyway.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I don't see how getting him live reps means a thing when he's been hit so many times he can't get any play off.

Chalk it up, move on, remember it's just the second preseason game. That's what a smart coach does.

But then what we talk about for the next 6 days

 

[MikeSr619]

But then what we talk about for the next 6 days

Lol..smart ass

We talk about the line, the backs, and our healthy quarterback

 

[Primus Porcus]

Lol..smart ass

We talk about the line, the backs, and our healthy quarterback

but this is the RG3 thread

 

[MikeSr619]

but this is the RG3 thread

Healthy. Quarterback.

It was in the quote you quoted. You busting my balls again, Murray?!

 

[Boone]

Due respect Goal, it's not Gruden's job to worry about what decisions fans will 'be fine with' or which ones they will freak out about. Let's be honest here - Gruden is going to 'hear it' loudly and critically no matter what he does with Griffin up until things start working and humming. If he pulls him early, he has no confidence in Griffin and doesn't trust him, if he doesn't he's reckless (and some even believe he's trying to get Griffin killed which is honestly a pretty fringe belief imho).

Gruden has to ignore all that and I think he IS ignoring all that.

I believe Gruden is, whether it's his personal preference or one he's being asked to commit to, trying to get Griffin to a place where he is a serviceable, reliable, and trust-worthy starter. The focus on the running game isn't designed to short-change Griffin or because he can't trust him to throw, it's because (I believe) Gruden doesn't want Griffin to feel like he has to win games on his back alone. He's trying to reduce the pressure on Griffin and use him judiciously. That Griffin still can't shine is troubling (setting aside all of the contributing 'reasons'). I don't think Gruden wants to have to bench Griffin again, at least not now or in mid-season. He was trying to keep Griffin in there so he and the offense could experience some success before moving on to the 2nd tier guys. I think any other interpretation is really a stretch. And btw, this is exactly what Gruden said after the game.

If our supporting cast and Griffin himself cannot keep guys at bay and avoid getting pummeled in a freaking pre-season game when the other guys best players aren't even out there at several spots, that is 100% on the players, not on the head coach. That's just how I see it. I'm not crazy about what I've seen from Gruden to date. But the idea that he's trying to undermine and sabotage his own success by playing mind games and petty politics with the roster and play-calling, I think that is really hard to believe, at least for this fan.

 

[Boone]

I don't see how getting him live reps means a thing when he's been hit so many times he can't get any play off.

Chalk it up, move on, remember it's just the second preseason game. That's what a smart coach does.

I agree in principle, but you guys act like he threw it 40 times. He had, what, like 5 total passes! The fact that he got sacked on most of them....To 'protect' Griffin, you would basically have to decide not to give him any plays. Because the guy could find a way to get smacked around holding for an extra point attempt.

 

[MikeSr619]

I agree in principle, but you guys act like he threw it 40 times. He had, what, like 5 total passes! The fact that he got sacked on most of them....To 'protect' Griffin, you would basically have to decide not to give him any plays. Because the guy could find a way to get smacked around holding for an extra point attempt.

8 dropbacks and 6 hits.

To protect him, I feel you roll him out, scramble him, run screens. You'd have to adjust in the regular season, right? So why not adjust now when he's under fire?

 

[Boone]

I have no confidence that they weren't trying to adjust and he isn't just messing up out there - that's just one possibility. The other, which I think has merit although we tend to want to ignore it, is that the coaches are trying to work on what he struggles with (and perhaps the OL struggles with) which is passing effectively from the pocket. I don't think any of us would argue being able to hit simple passes without rolling your QB out or bringing in mass protection, being able to pick up blitzes, hit an outlet receiver, or hell, just throw the ball out of bounds, are not essential starting NFL QB skills.

I don't think it's the crime of the century to try to work on those things with a supposed starter going into his 4th season when he has struggled with them to date. It's what a coaching staff should be doing. What does it do to Griffin's progress and confidence if you pull him after the first series as some of you are arguing Gruden should have done?

 

[Primus Porcus]

8 dropbacks and 6 hits.

To protect him, I feel you roll him out, scramble him, run screens. You'd have to adjust in the regular season, right? So why not adjust now when he's under fire?

My personal opinion... it comes back to getting him reps in area's where needs the most work.

 

[MikeSr619]

My personal opinion... it comes back to getting him reps in area's where needs the most work.

Even if you're witnessing it not work? Would you be ok with morris getting hit over and over if he needed the practice?

Adjust, fix the line, come back to it.

 

[Goaldeje]

Boone, the bottom line is that what he was calling wasn't working. Change... SOMETHING. The plays, the players, something. But to keep throwing a guy out there who has shown he can't handle it is... well... insanity.