Random Commanders Thoughts

[Om]

Robert has shown progress so far in 2015. And looked healthy--probably more so than at any time since 2012.

No, that doesn't mean he's going to rock the NFL in 2015. But it's also a far cry from what some of you guys are trying to sell.

Believe me, if the reports and tea leaves HAD been dire, I am not one who would be pretending otherwise.

 

[Primus Porcus]

How is discounting the last 2 years not ignoring history, yet letting go of a season 3 years removed is?

 

[MikeSr619]

it is funny to watch this conversation happen again and again but its the same select few dogging him while several others try and defend him time and time again.

its never a different argument, its never different stats...its always the same.

this is what the matrix is.

 

[McD5]

Yeah, you're right. It's too bad he has never shown any flash of ability at all.

I swear. Did 2012 not happen. Did I imagine it? Did I fabricate those incredible reads and throws he made under pressure? I'm not saying he can return to that form, but to ignore that history and say that you would rather take 50 QBs over him is beyond insulting. It's just stupid.

Daunte Culpepper also showed amazing flashes of ability. Ditto for Carson Palmer.

He has a huge uphill battle in terms of health and in becoming more of a traditional QB.

I'd take my chances on the healthy pocket passer. And I believe 99% of GMs would agree.

 

[Goaldeje]

How is discounting the last 2 years not ignoring history, yet letting go of a season 3 years removed is?

I think a lot of us are trying to balance the data, while not falling into what we see as the trap of thinking that Robert is a doomed QB based on the past two years. What is frustrating is that those who are down on Griffin appear not to be placing any value to his superlative 2012 campaign. I heard someone on the radio the other day say that in retrospect, Luck should have been the MVP. That's lunacy. Robert's rookie season was nothing short of remarkable. His running was amazing, but SO WAS HIS PASSING.

I'm personally under no illusion that he can regain that form. If he can make it halfway back, that puts him lightyears ahead of anything we have currently or have had recently on our roster. Gruden was just complimentary, apparently he's progressing. So let's see how he does. I think pretty much everyone in the world realizes this is his make or break year. So let's see what happens.

Saying there are 50 QBs better than him is just stupid though. Saying that rookies who have never played an NFL snap is equally ludicrous.

 

[Goaldeje]

Daunte Culpepper also showed amazing flashes of ability. Ditto for Carson Palmer.

He has a huge uphill battle in terms of health and in becoming more of a traditional QB.

I'd take my chances on the healthy pocket passer. And I believe 99% of GMs would agree.

OK, and YOUR boy-genius coach just said things are looking good. Does Gruden's savant-like judgement only matter when he's trashing our QB?

 

[McD5]

His QB coaches are the main reason why I'd rank him as high as 50 in the longer term.

With his injury history, and being so far behind in terms of learning how to read defenses, I'd put him at 65 otherwise.

That isn't to say he can't be coached up to 20th this season--if he stays healthy. I just believe some are discounting his injury history, and naively believing his ability to stay healthy in the future way beyond anything rational.

 

[Chris]

OK, and YOUR boy-genius coach just said things are looking good. Does Gruden's savant-like judgement only matter when he's trashing our QB?

No. That's clearly only a sign that Gruden has learned his lesson and is lying in an attempt to not further damage Griffin's delicate sensibilities.

 

[Boone]

His QB coaches are the main reason why I'd rank him as high as 50 in the longer term.

With his injury history, and being so far behind in terms of learning how to read defenses, I'd put him at 65 otherwise.

That isn't to say he can't be coached up to 20th this season--if he stays healthy. I just believe some are discounting his injury history, and naively believing his ability to stay healthy in the future way beyond anything rational.

I'm not a Griffin 'believer' by any stretch. But I would love to see him shut some of you guys up. I would absolutely love it.

 

[MikeSr619]

I'm not a Griffin 'believer' by any stretch. But I would love to see him shut some of you guys up. I would absolutely love it.

You don't really believe that they would though, do ya?

 

[DieselPwr44]

I don't really care who it is, I just wish somebody in a Redskins uniform would step up and take the Qb job for the next 12-15 years.
I've been a fan of this team for about 34,35 years. In that time, we've never had a franchise Qb...IMO.

We've had Joe Theismann who gave us elite Qb play for about a three year stretch.
Doug Williams caught fire for half a season.
Mark Rypien who had a two and a half year stretch of upper echelon play.

But nobody that could nail down that spot for a decade plus.

Wish it would happen. Don't even know how I'd act if it did.....lol

 

[McD5]

I'm not a Griffin 'believer' by any stretch. But I would love to see him shut some of you guys up. I would absolutely love it.

When typing over the internet it's sometimes hard to express exactly where a person is coming from. I liked Griffin, and thought the signing was a good one. It's nothing against him. His was the first jersey of a current player I had purchased in what seems like forever. I actually bought five or six of them for family members at Christmas.

But haven't we seen this story play out at least 10 other times in Washington? Jammal Brown was a two time pro bowl player before injury. Malcolm Kelly never showed anything, but couldn't recover from that knee. Jenkins looked good--until just one ACL.

RG3 had two.

Doctors saying "he's 100% healthy" means absolutely nothing. "100% healthy" means that he can drink coffee, sit on the couch or behind a desk, and go to the gym twice a week like most average adults. It doesn't mean that he will ever be anything close to the amazing athlete he once was.

1 ACL is tough. 2....wow.

And it's not just the running. It's the footwork. It's planting to throw. It's not throwing balls too high, or worrying about defenders around your knees.

We're seeing it now with Jordan Reed. Great guy. Everyone loves him. Didn't he just go down again without contact? Jordan Reed is arguably a top 6 TE in this league when healthy. No one's saying he's Gronk or Jimmy Graham. But concerns over his health have to drop him down to the 22 range.

I want RG3 to be number 1. I want him to light it up and kick ass. But is that really likely? That's why I believe the 31st or below ranking is fair.

 

[MikeSr619]

No you don't. You wanted Winston and you made no bones to hide it or act any differently. You've been negative and critical of him at every opportunity.

 

[McD5]

No you don't. You wanted Winston and you made no bones to hide it or act any differently. You've been negative and critical of him at every opportunity.

I would have been very aggressive in trying to trade RG3 plus Morris plus another second or third round draft pick for Winston.

I'm not critical of his effort, just like I'm not critical of Jordan Reed's effort. But I don't see how this story is likely to end well.

I'd definitely take a healthy Winston over RG3. Wouldn't most teams?

I'd also take Richard Sherman over Amerson. That's not being negative about Amerson.

 

[MikeSr619]

I am sorry I responded. I know better. I'm signing off now.

 

[fansince62]

That should help. But the QB coach can't repair injuries.

It's possible/probable that the even bigger problem is trying to teach a guy how to be one of the best 32 QBs on earth at his age.

Take an athlete, and try to teach him to be one of the 32 best pocket passers on earth. That isn't easy. Most of the other QBs have been studying that for an additional 4-7 years at his age.

He's way behind the curve.

that simply isn't a firm grasp on reality.

the balance of QBs coming from college these days play out of the shot gun, run spread offenses execute to simple progressions (if at all).

 

[fansince62]

His QB coaches are the main reason why I'd rank him as high as 50 in the longer term.

With his injury history, and being so far behind in terms of learning how to read defenses, I'd put him at 65 otherwise.

That isn't to say he can't be coached up to 20th this season--if he stays healthy. I just believe some are discounting his injury history, and naively believing his ability to stay healthy in the future way beyond anything rational.

what's your metric for assessing how far behind?

if we have to go down this worn path...yet again as Big Mike points out....your assertion is pure smoke and mirrors. you have no quantitative basis for ranking ANYONE at 50, 60, or 10,000 - there's no way to discern from what you have posted how one computes a delta between 60 and 55, 70 and 60. it's a wing it since we all know you haven't looked at all the QBs to even validate that the ranking you have assigned has actual meaning/consistency. what? he's had two injuries? ok....how does that slot him into a pool of 100+ QBs? Does Brady drop because he also has had a serious injury? in short.....your rank ordering is as subjective and lacking in content/structure as any of the others. what the blank does the ranking even capture? potential? past performance? likability? injury risk? mental acuity? past success? haircut? twitter posting habits?

like it or not...gruden sinks or swims with RGIII: cuz Cousins and Boy Average McCoy aint the answer either.

many of us have adopted a hopeful outlook based on the present context:

- the alternatives aren't any better

- the coach has, to date, demonstrated an inability to teach and improve (at all positions it seems); new QB coach has a proven track record in the NFL

- there was that season of success, we know RGIII is intelligent (i.e., can learn), we know he is a great athlete

- many of the criticisms are legitimate...we know that. it gets down to whether one believes improvement can happen. now, I agree with you that one should be highly skeptical given Gruden's past performance as a teacher and motivator. but one can always expect the best...right?

 

[Primus Porcus]

Ok, here's my stance on it.

I've been critical of Griffin based on quite a few concerning trends he's shown over the last 2 years. 2012 was one of the most enjoyable experiences I've ever gone through. That being said, is 'halfway back' to that what we want for the next 10 years? A potential middle of the pack QB? I will continue to hope that my gut feeling about Griff is wrong, and I will root for him as long as he wears our team colors. I also won't take 1 or 2 reports and view them as being scripture.


This:
Robert Griffin III ?Puts A Little Swag? Into Offseason

Jon Gruden


“Every day he is doing something a little bit better, and that’s all we can ask, man,” Gruden told reporters on Tuesday. “You can see that [he’s] starting to have confidence in the pocket and going through his progressions. That’s got to be a consistent theme with him, and not always is that possible with the pocket the way it is, but for the most part, he’s coming along at a good rate right now.”

Gruden said Griffin III is “doing a great job of exhausting all of his progressions, playing the quarterback position with good fundamentals and getting better.”

Is a strong positive. It COULD be 1 of 2 scenarios, either:

A. Griffin is getting better and the addition of the QB coach is truly helping. That potentially all along Griffin just needed the focused coaching and that Gruden was not able to pay enough attention to him, AND run a football team.

B. Gruden has learned the art of Coach Speak after his lambasting of Griffin last year. He's making an effort to not show his hand as much as he used to, and we're all truly clueless to what is actually going on.


While both of these situations are favorable in their own sense, IMHO it has to be taken with a grain of salt either way. This article is also written by Redskins.com, so they aren't exactly going to broadcast the struggles of the franchise, while developing hope for the upcoming season.

 

[Ax]

When typing over the internet it's sometimes hard to express exactly where a person is coming from.

And sometimes, it's as obvious as water being wet.

 

[fansince62]

Proposal:

- we all know there are two primary trip-wires on this board...RGIII and Jay Gruden.

- how about we table the venom for a while....enjoy the preseason and give it several games into the season before jumping back into it. If it's messed up after several games and the same ole problems manifest themselves I know I will be done with RGIII and/or Gruden. until then....let's experience real "hope and change" until reality does/does not slam the door.