McCloughan's draft plan

[Om]

Thanks for taking up the cause, Ax, but moderating has been handled.

Now ... about firing rookie head coaches handed 3-13 disasters and expected to do better. Even whey they do. Hell, Goal's favorite head coach increased our winning percentage over HOF'er Mike Shanahan by 25%.

 

[Goaldeje]

I have high standards, not sure what's wrong with that?

 

[fansince62]

Simple terms I can understand?
Grade school stuff?

No matter what shit you posted after that I didn't bother reading it. Save that shit you're talking for Al.

hey now! wait a minute! my lawn is off limits!!

 

[fansince62]

Thanks for taking up the cause, Ax, but moderating has been handled.

Now ... about firing rookie head coaches handed 3-13 disasters and expected to do better. Even whey they do. Hell, Goal's favorite head coach increased our winning percentage over HOF'er Mike Shanahan by 25%.

hey! where can I sign up for a job paying millions and not improve things? I want sum of dat action!!!

 

[Ax]

While I may not feel as hopeless about Gruden's future here, as some do, I am in full agreement that his rookie year was about as bad as I've seen. As Goal has said loud, and often, it's the lack of discernible leadership that is the most troubling. I also see no justification for the public flogging of Griffin. Again, to me, it shows an incapability to lead by example. I'm 100% certain, that regardless of what we don't know happened behind closed doors, there was a better way to handle it than getting in front of a microphone and essentially saying the guy is too stupid to count to 3, 5, or 7.

 

[Goaldeje]

Are you saying my posts are lacking subtlty and nuance?

 

[Om]

I have high standards, not sure what's wrong with that?

Seriously?

We all have high standards, brother. We all want our team to win. Where we often differ is in how we interpret the information we see, read and hear ... and the conclusions we draw from it.

 

[Goaldeje]

Tongue in Cheek (not Mike, cause... eww), sorry. I know we all have high standards. Mine might be too high, I don't know.

I just didn't see many signs of encouragement that would allow me to think that things are going to be a lot better this year.

 

[Ax]

No Sir. You were one of the first, and most consistent observers of Gruden's total lack of leadership skills, to date.

 

[Om]

I see lots of references here to how Gruden lacked leadership. And I'll repeat, again, that taken purely from the perspective of someone watching on TV, that calling out Robert at that press conference probably isn't the way I'd go about it myself. But I didn't have the luxury of seeing first hand everything from minicamps through that Sunday afternoon that led up to it, so I'm not prepared to categorically say it wasn't on some level justified, or least understandable.

Guess we'll find out down the road.

Of more interest to me going forward is ... have there been players, coaches or anyone else inside the building who has indicated Jay doesn't have the team's ear? Or that he's not a leader? If there have I'd honestly like to read them.

Also, am I mistaken that I think I recall reading, on more than one occasion, that players actually came to Jay and complained that Robert was killing them on the field?

 

[fansince62]

While I may not feel as hopeless about Gruden's future here, as some do, I am in full agreement that his rookie year was about as bad as I've seen. As Goal has said loud, and often, it's the lack of discernible leadership that is the most troubling. I also see no justification for the public flogging of Griffin. Again, to me, it shows an incapability to lead by example. I'm 100% certain, that regardless of what we don't know happened behind closed doors, there was a better way to handle it than getting in front of a microphone and essentially saying the guy is too stupid to count to 3, 5, or 7.

especially for an individual who accomplished 10 times what Gruden managed as a student (e.g., undergraduate degree in 3 yrs, masters, etc.) - while winning the Heisman to boot. the whole storyline is idiotic.

I get it that RGIII's performance has led him to the proverbial "now or never" decision point. what I object to is the mindset on the part of some that his rookie year somehow didn't require the same skills (i.e., he has done it - not the full polished pocket passer, but the same skillsets just the same) and that what evolved didn't have major components of franchise chaos, roster mismanagement, FO/coaching shehanigans, horrendous offensive line blocking, playcalling barriers thrown into the mix. and, yes, that includes Gruden. that team was a mess last season in multiple areas on/off the field...and that traces directly to the HC.

RGIII stays or leaves...life goes on. that he somehow got to where he was last season is his fault..and his alone....defies what has been labeled as common sense. consecutive seasons of 3-13 and 4-12 are as sure an indicator as any that there were problems up, down and across this organization. the symptoms of poor play, bad headwork, stupid penalties, etc. etc., weren't localized.....in short, there were factors in play that went way beyond RGIII.

the true storyline is that he declined after a wonderful first year. a lot owes to an injury his first year. but the rest of the causal analysis has really never happened. the throw the guy under the bus crowd, to counter the "in love" calumny, is equally simplistic in its analysis. how did we get to this point? it's is not all on RGIII.....

 

[Om]

No one has ever said it was Robert's fault alone, Al. Not once.

What defies common sense is the notion the head coach does not want to succeed.

 

[Boone]

Gruden may be a dick (although I think that's arguable). While I don't like airing dirty laundry in public, I've pointed out before (to cricket chirps here) that not a single player has complained about Gruden's coaching style or leadership. NFL players, in my experience, are not generally hesitant to do so. So I think it's possible Gruden is doing a lot of good things behind the scenes and may just need to learn how to communicate more carefully to media. Even if Gruden is a dick, does that really explain why Griffin can't lead a successful drive and make good decisions consistently? I mean, Gruden must have some serious voodoo skills - a couple of harsh comments and he's completely stolen Robert's mojo.

 

[fansince62]

No one has ever said it was Robert's fault alone, Al. Not once.

What defies common sense is the notion the head coach does not want to succeed.

if this is a sticking point for you - fine...Jay Gruden has always wanted to win. I keep to my point just the same from what I saw last season: he decided early on RGIII wasn't his guy and he played out the string without really fixing anything coupled to not being able to manage his time smartly enough to create the extra time needed to fix what he perceived as a bad situation (i.e., what he was orig hired to do).

here's hoping more games aren't being played and that Gruden gets his act together this season (one assumes some of the off-season hires are purposed for just that).

 

[fansince62]

Gruden may be a dick (although I think that's arguable). While I don't like airing dirty laundry in public, I've pointed out before (to cricket chirps here) that not a single player has complained about Gruden's coaching style or leadership. NFL players, in my experience, are not generally hesitant to do so. So I think it's possible Gruden is doing a lot of good things behind the scenes and may just need to learn how to communicate more carefully to media. Even if Gruden is a dick, does that really explain why Griffin can't lead a successful drive and make good decisions consistently? I mean, Gruden must have some serious voodoo skills - a couple of harsh comments and he's completely stolen Robert's mojo.

Boone....these responses by all veer more and more from reality. Griffin led plenty of drives last season...including scoring drives.....we all know ALF's production increases when Griffin plays.....it's manufacturing falsehoods to claim that Griffin didn't move the offense. he did. what is legitimate is the observation that he held the ball too long too often and that in more than a few games wasn't seeing open receivers inside the "success" window. I would characterize his performance more as erratic than uniformly bad.

but this all just gets back to the same starting point: what are the root causes for a two year decline from a wonderful beginning?

separate subject: well...if Gruden is doing good behind the scenes it sure as H didn't show up on the field. if only ONE guy isn't onboard with the program you don't get the total crappola embarrassment of a season we all saw last season.

 

[Goaldeje]

Gruden may be a dick (although I think that's arguable). While I don't like airing dirty laundry in public, I've pointed out before (to cricket chirps here) that not a single player has complained about Gruden's coaching style or leadership. NFL players, in my experience, are not generally hesitant to do so. So I think it's possible Gruden is doing a lot of good things behind the scenes and may just need to learn how to communicate more carefully to media. Even if Gruden is a dick, does that really explain why Griffin can't lead a successful drive and make good decisions consistently? I mean, Gruden must have some serious voodoo skills - a couple of harsh comments and he's completely stolen Robert's mojo.

Perhaps they aren't saying anything because they saw how Robert's situation was handled, and they don't want that shitstorm directed at them?

 

[Boone]

Boone....these responses by all veer more and more from reality. Griffin led plenty of drives last season...including scoring drives.....we all know ALF's production increases when Griffin plays.....it's manufacturing falsehoods to claim that Griffin didn't move the offense. he did. what is legitimate is the observation that he held the ball too long too often and that in more than a few games wasn't seeing open receivers inside the "success" window. I would characterize his performance more as erratic than uniformly bad.

but this all just gets back to the same starting point: what are the root causes for a two year decline from a wonderful beginning?

I have a firm grasp on reality but thanks for the input I have posted more stats and data supporting my opinions than anyone on this site save perhaps Serv. I'm not just pontificating as many limit themselves to.

I have posted plenty about Griffin not being as 'terrible' as many characterize him to be. He's a middle of the pack QB, but his play is critically flawed and has been for 2 years, so nailing me on semantics rings hollow.

Griffin is a disappointment - and he hasn't gotten the job done with multiple opportunities. Tossing out mitigating factors and blamestorming is fine and probably at some level is fair. But it doesn't alter the most compelling fact - that Griffin does not look to have the skills to be a successful NFL QB at this point on his development.

 

[Boone]

Perhaps they aren't saying anything because they saw how Robert's situation was handled, and they don't want that shitstorm directed at them?

Or more likely, they agree?

 

[Goaldeje]

I think both are equally possible, personally.

Once you pants someone publicly, others in the organization are wary of risking the same treatment.

 

[Ax]

Gruden may be a dick (although I think that's arguable). While I don't like airing dirty laundry in public, I've pointed out before (to cricket chirps here) that not a single player has complained about Gruden's coaching style or leadership. NFL players, in my experience, are not generally hesitant to do so. So I think it's possible Gruden is doing a lot of good things behind the scenes and may just need to learn how to communicate more carefully to media. Even if Gruden is a dick, does that really explain why Griffin can't lead a successful drive and make good decisions consistently? I mean, Gruden must have some serious voodoo skills - a couple of harsh comments and he's completely stolen Robert's mojo.

Well I don't know if I can find it, but I distinctly remember reading that while many players agreed with Gruden's assessment of Robert, none agreed with the public manner in which he chose to dress him down. That they haven't come out loudly to protest could simply be trying to cut some slack on a rookie coach. Which I agree with, and have done myself. Insofar as I'm not ready to condemn him to the firing squad, yet.

I also find comfort in knowing that the questions surrounding Griffin will be answered this season. And that a clear path will be revealed as to our QB situation. I'm more focused on preparing a team that doesn't have to dump the expectations of a Savior, onto the shoulders of a young man trying to find his way into unchartered waters, for him. (College God to Franchise Fixer)