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Burgundy Burner said:
With all due respect John, there is only one car that went high.

I am not ready to say he is guilty, but every racer knows that you go high or low (depending on where the accident is located) to stay away from the accident scene during a caution. Many racers have climbed out of their cars to voice a certain measure of anger - it is something of a tradition - if you will.

I'm not going to blame Tony, but I will definitely not blame Kevin Ward.
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It sounds pretty clear that you are blaming him BB - if that's not the case, my bad. You're certainly strongly implying it was his fault. It's a dark track, a driver in black gets out of his vehicle and is running towards vehicles going 100+ mph. I don't know that we can even be sure Stewart knew what was going on, much less saw Ward.

And I don't think anyone is blaming Ward - I think they are stating the obvious, that when you get out of your vehicle and run around in traffic on a race course, generally it's a recipe for disaster.
 
And I see this trend in healthcare a lot btw...something horrible happens and there's an impulsive rush to assign blame. Sometimes small errors in judgment lead to horrible consequences. The horrific nature of the end result does not necessarily equate to horrific intention, or perhaps, any intention at all. Sometimes, horrible things happen.
 
My opinion - and that is all it is - is that Tony went higher than the other drivers to send some sort of message to Kevin Ward. If Tony misses him, then it is no big deal. Tony's car slid out of control (in the rear) momentarily and that misjudgment cost Kevin his life.

I have been in accidents back in the day when racing some late model events. I can recall a couple of racers getting out of their car and giving me a one finger salute as I drove by on the caution lap or some other gesture. I did the same after getting wrecked on a couple of occasions (mostly just throwing my arms up in disgust). Like I said earlier, it is just something of a tradition. Each of us knew to slow down and stay a certain distance (low or high) from the scene.

Did Kevin Ward come down into the racing groove? Not quite, but it was very close. However, no other racer came even remotely close to being near Mr. Ward. I'm not blaming Tony, but he did appear to use poor guessing/judgment.
 
You guys are the racing experts - I have zero knowledge on that front. But even I know Tony Stewart has a well-deserved reputation as a hothead and a *****. He was those things prior to this accident. I'd just be careful assuming that those personality traits had anything to do with another human being getting killed. That's all I'm saying. It could just as easily have been another driver that killed Ward. The 'technicalities' about where Ward was on the racetrack and whether or not he was running or walking are irrelevant. He should never have gotten out of his vehicle, and certainly was thinking clearly pursuing another driver out on the race course.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
My opinion - and that is all it is - is that Tony went higher than the other drivers to send some sort of message to Kevin Ward. If Tony misses him, then it is no big deal. Tony's car slid out of control (in the rear) momentarily and that misjudgment cost Kevin his life.
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The fact that Kevin Ward got out of his car and walked DOWN the track, cost him his life. He stays in the car and he is still alive today. Tradition or not, he stays in or even nearer his car, he's alive today.


Burgundy Burner said:
Did Kevin Ward come down into the racing groove? Not quite, but it was very close. However, no other racer came even remotely close to being near Mr. Ward. I'm not blaming Tony, but he did appear to use poor guessing/judgment.
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If you notice, there was a car in front of Stewart as he came around the turn...in that situation, dimly lit, did Stewart see him at the last minute try to avoid and panic? The likelihood is slim with such an experienced, emotional driver, but it's as likely as him speeding up with a driver out of his car in the middle of the track, intentionally trying to "send a message." You have experience on a track, but you're experience only gives experience on a track, it doesn't give you more insight into the intention of Stewart on that track.

What we know is that Kevin Ward made a decision to get out of his car...tradition or not, that act is what led to his death. He stays in the car...we're not having this discussion.
 
And so can video tape of an accident BB.
 
I just watched it again. The car ahead of Tony is about three feet above the inside line. Tony is considerably higher - at least twelve feet. Freeze-framed the video and went through it frame by frame - that is what I see.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
I just watched it again. The car ahead of Tony is about three feet above the inside line. Tony is considerably higher - at least twelve feet. Freeze-framed the video and went through it frame by frame - that is what I see.
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You're exaggerating the difference in the path of Stewart and the path of the car in front of him.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
No exaggeration. Video simply does not lie.
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Amazing how 2 people can see something entirely different. You're suggesting the difference was 12 feet, I am saying it wasn't. It's all good. No need to argue anymore, we just see it differently.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nasca...n-track-confrontations-changed-084240651.html

Just take a few minutes to see what has happened in the past.
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I am not worried about the past...I have not seen what happened Saturday night from enough of a perspective to say anything other than I don't know. You and others seem to have convicted him in a court of law based on his past aggressiveness and the limited perspective of the video.

If there is a GoPro on Smoke's car, it will give more insight.
 
I haven't convicted anyone. Neither has anyone else. So let's get that straight.

None of you (as far as I know) have ever raced vehicles in a sanctioned event. I have and can relate to the emotions and how strong those feelings can be on a Friday or Saturday night. I was in a few fights and some heated arguments. After the dust settled, you usually helped each other with putting cars (or what's left of them) on one another's trailers. There have always been certain unwritten rules and traditions - those videos simply prove it even on NASCAR's biggest stage. Each driver stayed high or low (depending on the accident) and only Robby Gordon breached that protocol. Even then, he was not hit - not anything close to it.

To ignore the history and traditions of the sport is to doom's its future.
 
Your personal experience behind a wheel has nothing to do with this.

You have already told all of us that we don't know as much as you do and that we need to think of the family like we're cold blooded and not just being honest

Every single news station and police report says that the kid ran down the track and you can see him go directly for tonys car as its coming. That doesn't mean Tony didn't do anything but it means the kid holds just as much responsibility as anyone else
 
It has everything to do with it. Local track racing is a far different animal than that of a national series. It's a family unlike any other and they certainly welcome the big name stars when possible. UPSNY right now is a close knit family that truly feels it.

Not accusing you or anyone else of being cold or indifferent about what happened. Unless you have raced locally, it is hard to explain that feeling and the atmosphere that exists. Attend a local track's events for about three years or so and some of it will make sense to a certain degree. I encourage you to do so. It won't change your mind, but you will have a better understanding of said community in the future.

I'll take it a step further...

Pretty sure that Tony wanted to kick some dirt on the kid - that could be why the car fishtailed a bit. No other car had to fishtail, but that is obvious in the video. There can be no doubt that Tony is feeling lower than a mosquito's belly and it could have a long term effect on him. I feel for Tony and his future. We may never know the truth, but that his between him and God. The people I feel for the most are the family, loved ones, and friends of Kevin Ward. That is not being cold, it is just being human.
 
Well..I guess since none of us have raced we can't speak to you about it because we don't know. Makes for a really short and one sided conversation. The fact that you don't believe or maybe just don't think to ask if any of us have been to short track racing or involved in it makes it, again, hard to hold a conversation.

If we don't feel as bad as you or feel bad for Tony as well we aren't human? Or you just don't approve so therefore it means it's wrong? The majority of comments and commentary I've heard is that it's equal fault and just sad all the way around.

Dirt track racing isn't the only place where you can get a sense of community and closeness.
 
BB, your experience does not translate into knowledge of Tony Stewart's intent...you cannot possibly know that. You can only guess and the statements you are making have an air of confidence that you know what happened. Well, you can only speculate and your experience on the track doesn't change that.
 
There are plenty of places where (in and out of sports) people have a close community. There are plenty of places where I don't fit in, but this is something that is near and dear to me. I'm sure you and anyone else in this thread feels bad for the parties involved.

You mentioned a paralyzed athlete earlier. That's sad, but I know very little about that sport. One sport I really like is powerboat racing. However, I have no background in it and can't relate to their sense of community. It's fun to watch, but I really don't understand that much about it. Too, you don't see me hardly at all in the baseball threads. Not being much of a fan has a lot to do with it, but I trust many others in here who have a better background than me. Ditto for other sports.

I don't watch a lot of TV and that is why I say little in that thread. Home improvement threads - I'm basically clueless. Computer threads? Even though I am MCSE, MCSA, etc., those certs are fifteen years old and I can't add much to the conversation.

I know something here and can bring a unique insight. It may or may not be what you want to read and hear, but knowledge of local racing is in the blood.

For the record though - I never raced on dirt. Always raced on the asphalt surfaces throughout the southeast - a few in the northeast too.
 
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This is why I stopped participating in this thread even though a lot of my friends still did. You are no more an expert than any of us in a message board. All of our opinions mean the same as your expertise and trying to continually push it on us is too much.
 
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