Random Commanders Thoughts

[Boone]

Aldrick is effectively coming into his 3rd season. If he can't impress this year, we may have to cut bait. But he missed his entire rookie year and is just 25 years old. Other than Garcon all of the WRs #'s suffered last year because Griffin was getting zero time for plays to develop. Robinson is a deep ball guy (even with his low reception rate last season, he almost equalled Moss' receiving yards per game and had twice the avg yards per catch). With better protection and Griffin being able to plant his leg with confidence this year, he might surprise. It's his 3rd year - I think he deserves a look. WRs are notoriously slow to develop in the NFL.

 

[MikeSr619]

in 2 years he has, what, 25 catches? Even Devin Hester does better than that splitting time as CB and PR!!

Robinson is not as fast as everyone here is imagining him to be, either. He did not get behind the defenses last year because after 2012 they realized what his one trick was and kept someone out there. It appears that he did have one big play last year...so that could help.

As much as I'm being called out for holding on to an aging vet you guys are placing too much stock in "ifs" and "potential" that just has never shown up.

 

[Henry]

We were a team that gave up on its coach halfway through the season and finished 3-13 last year. I wouldn't base player evaluation too much on what happened that season. If I'm reading BBs post correctly, our new coach thinks there's hope for Robinson. I would take that into consideration when judging his chances to make the team going forward.

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[MikeSr619]

Hope...not stats

Everyone played under the same crap conditions last year. One guy did better.

 

[Om]

When did stats became such an exclusive barometer, Mike? There are other considerations.

The most obvious of those, to me anyway, is Santana's physical decline. To my eye Moss is at the same place in his career heading into 2014 that London Fletcher was heading into last year ... that of a proven fan favorite Redskin in undeniable physical freefall. Stats notwithstanding, the decline we saw in Moss' physical ability between 2012 and 2013 was marked (do you disagree?). The drop I expect to see (and am certain the Redskins are eyeing closely in OTA's) another year later will quite likely be precipitous.

Just seems to me that as the offensive roster is being made younger--and faster--the obvious smart play is to at least keep the option open for as long as possible to favor younger faster legs over older, clearly declining ones. I think that's all we're saying here ... that IF Robinson can show the Skins between now and the end of the preseason that he is developing a professional WR's head on top of the young explosive legs, that speed and youth are a better long term benefit to them than an aging, declining Santana Moss who may or may not have one foot on the cliff and the other in space.

I keep thinking that is Moss makes the team, it will be more about the other younger options on the roster--from Robinson to Hank to the kid Grant--failing to provide a viable option than it will be about Moss finding the fountain of youth.

 

[MikeSr619]

I don't know how to answer that. Stats are what matter. It's how a player justifies getting more money, it's how they decide mvp, it's how they determine who's better, it's how records are set.

Even with all the physical decline you saw he was better. What does that say more about Robinson than anything?

He can't beat an old man who's lost a step. Not exactly the stat I'd tout.

 

[Om]

Well, I dont know how to answer that, either. Other than to say I hope the Redskin coaching staff looks a little deeper than that.

 

[MikeSr619]

Or looks at who brings what to the table stat and leadership wise

 

[Henry]

Hope...not stats

Everyone played under the same crap conditions last year. One guy did better.

Youth, not age. If you want to dumb it down.

It's a new coach, re-vamping a team that crapped the bed last year. Basing an argument on the crap in that bed? Meh. I suspect the coach is going to go with what he sees on the field, and if the rumor is that what he sees on the field from Robinson is better than what he sees from Moss ... I see no reason to disbelieve it. Moss is 450 years old. I love the guy, but frankly I'm surprised he was even asked back this year. Shrug.

 

[MikeSr619]

So, even though moss outperformed him in every way the mere fact that he's younger means he should get the roster spot?

Well, Nix is tall. Maybe he's out there still.

 

[JohnssBass]

It would seem by what the staff has done so far, they're willing to make wholesale changes. FA guard, drafted potential starting guard, cut last years center. Dumped two of five safeties left from last year and brought in five more. Added a starting WR drafted another for looking at the #4 or #5 position. Drafted an OLB with their first pick. I think they have have their own criteria and not all is stats and leadership. Maybe they are looking past 2014.

 

[Henry]

We're not talking about this in a vacuum Mike. BB was sharing something he heard. If he heard Nix might be supplanting Moss I'd be talking about that instead.

All I'm saying is "yeah I could see Moss losing his spot to a 25 year old." Especially a guy that averages twice as many yards per catch as Moss. Maybe that's the stat our new coach wants from his 4th or 5th WR. I don't know.

What I do know is Moss ia getting old and I cam believe a rumor that he might be shown the door soon.

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[tshile]

So, even though moss outperformed him in every way the mere fact that he's younger means he should get the roster spot?

Well, Nix is tall. Maybe he's out there still.

no but youth and potential is a factor when deciding 4th and 5th receiver. just like special teams is, even though no one cares about Garcon's ability/desire to play on teams.

unless moss has lost a significant step or two, he feels like the guy that has the better chance to be dependable this season.

if the goal is to build a team for the future (I'm not so sure that's the correct way to build right now... but for arguments sake) then what matters is overall impact over the next 4-5 years; in that regard moss cannot be counted on.

That being said... my gut is that Robinson has shown us all he's got and if we're going to replace a vet with a long-shot young guy because of speed I'd rather we bring in someone new and give them a shot instead of letting Robinson get a(nother?) crack.

If Moss is still on the team then that means we didn't bring in the right guy to compete with him. Om is right. Moss has lost a step, and his hands seem to be hit or miss. He's had a hell of a career, there's nothing wrong with it; aging is part of life. He was and is a hell of a Redskin. He probably still has a handful of games left in him where he can be that reliable guy that makes a huge difference (much moreso than Robinson in my opinion... Robinsion probably has a handful of plays - Moss has a handful of games) but you can't control when he'll have that type of game, and when he'll be the guy that drops 3 of the 4 passes that comes his way...

I guess I think Moss needs to be replaced, I just don't think Robinson is the guy to do it with.

 

[Goaldeje]

Was Robinson's lack of production last year due to having a QB returning from a major injury too quickly? Or is he what he is?

Impossible for us to know. If early indications are that Robinson has turned it on so far and is surpassing expectations, great. I'd say it is way too early to make any final judgments on anybody, but if our decision is to cut a guy like Santana and keep a guy like Robinson, that's a better place to be in than we've been in for a while. Gruden isn't going to have any emotional attachment to Santana, which means he will have unclouded vision when evaluating. If Robinson beats him out, I'm inclined to trust his judgment.

 

[MikeSr619]

Everyone played under the same condition. The year before he lacked, too..

 

[tshile]

Was Robinson's lack of production last year due to having a QB returning from a major injury too quickly? Or is he what he is?

Robinson's problem was getting separation. The only way he could get open was to run deep - to the point where when Robinson was on the field it was a pretty good bet that he was there to run a deep route, which makes covering him a bit easier.

I'd be lying if I said that was my analysis - it's most certainly others', but it seems to make sense from what I've seen.

So while I put much more blame on Griffin for last year than the receivers, I don't think a healthy Griffin is going to help Robinson learn how to get open in the short passing game.

 

[MikeSr619]

We're not talking about this in a vacuum Mike. BB was sharing something he heard. If he heard Nix might be supplanting Moss I'd be talking about that instead.

All I'm saying is "yeah I could see Moss losing his spot to a 25 year old." Especially a guy that averages twice as many yards per catch as Moss. Maybe that's the stat our new coach wants from his 4th or 5th WR. I don't know.

What I do know is Moss ia getting old and I cam believe a rumor that he might be shown the door soon.

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Gruden said that Santana has had a great offseason. He said he’s a lot of fun to be around and is a great example for rookies. #Redskins

Gruden also praised Moss for his work so far this offseason. Loves the 35-year-old's experience.

One person who has noticed Moss's work ethic early on is new head coach Jay Gruden.

"Santana, he's had an excellent offseason program, man," Gruden said. "He's fun to be around. He's fun to watch. He knows every position. He's making big plays out there. He looks like a young kid; he's got energy. He's a great leader. If he drops a pass, he holds himself accountable. If the quarterback misses him, he's like, 'Let's get onto the next one, man.' "

Gruden praised the example Moss was setting for the young players at the wide receiver position, and elsewhere.

"He's working out hard," Gruden said. "He's the first one out there today again. I like having guys like that, veteran guys who are great examples for rookies and also can help you win in big games. You know the game's not too big for them, because they've been there and done that. He's another one that's going to help this team out."

"could" "if" "potential" all of these words are just pleasant sounding but dont give what the true results of last year and every year on the Redskins have been. Moss (as old as he is) has still outdone Robinson. Robinson isn't even getting his ONE trick to work at his age. Anthony Armstrong was as good as Robinson is.

And, T, I agree. I know Moss is gone one day. But I have high doubts it will be Robinson who does it.

 

[MikeSr619]

I didnt even notice how telling this sentence was.

He's another one that's going to help this team out."

Going to. He. Help this team. Not "He has been someone who used to help this team"

He's another one that's going to help this team out."

so, if we are going to go off of OTA stories I will hold that one close to me. Since stats seem to be hated on lol

 

[Goaldeje]

OK, but I think we can all agree that between Griffin's skittishness and our OLine's suckiness, the deep routes didn't have a lot of time to develop properly last year. Even if the defense is adjusted for his presence, assuming (often correctly) that we are going deep to Robinson when he's on the field, some of his problems may certainly be attributed to the lack of a pocket and lack of time Griff had to throw.

Take a look at my avatar. No one loves Tana-man more than I do. Age is age. If he gets beat this year, so be it. It's going to happen eventually. Watching London at times last year was painful. If Tana gives us the best chance to win because Robinson truly is a one-trick pony with no chance to improve, I'll be happy to watch him in a Redskins uni again. If someone better beats him out, I'll just have to trust our coaching staff's judgment.

 

[tshile]

OK, but I think we can all agree that between Griffin's skittishness and our OLine's suckiness, the deep routes didn't have a lot of time to develop properly last year. Even if the defense is adjusted for his presence, assuming (often correctly) that we are going deep to Robinson when he's on the field, some of his problems may certainly be attributed to the lack of a pocket and lack of time Griff had to throw.

Take a look at my avatar. No one loves Tana-man more than I do. Age is age. If he gets beat this year, so be it. It's going to happen eventually. Watching London at times last year was painful. If Tana gives us the best chance to win because Robinson truly is a one-trick pony with no chance to improve, I'll be happy to watch him in a Redskins uni again. If someone better beats him out, I'll just have to trust our coaching staff's judgment.

I'm with you. I guess I'm just skeptical on Robinson... I don't see anything special there. The guy makes a flash play here and there but is otherwise not worth mentioning in the post game on a regular basis. Honestly... I'd rather see them focus more on Hankerson, as I see more potential there...

The other factor is the Gruden offense. We have no idea what they're going to roll out, and anyone pretending they do is only kidding themselves. We may see something completely different this year, and those differences may help or hurt Robinson's ability to contribute.