Change of Thought: Let Orakpo Go

[McD5]

4. Franchise tag or not, Brian Orakpo would be a tough player to have to replace. Whether it is a new contract or the use of the tag, don't we have to keep a player like this in uniform here? If not, who do you propose we replace him with? Our depth at linebacker is atrocious. Are we going to save money by pursuing some other free agent out there? Are we going to bypass using one of our precious draft picks on other areas of need so we can attempt to find his replacement there? Further, can you replace a pass rushing specialist of his ability in the second or third rounds? I tip my hat to Steve Shoup for helping me get my head right on this. I simply don't think we have a real choice when it comes to bringing Orakpo back. If not him, than who?

Looks Like Someone Has a Sixpack of the Mondays - Hogs Haven

 

[Ax]

Either way, we have everybody loading up their "I Told You So" six shooters, ready to fire.

Many seem to enjoy "being right" more than everything else.

If you're gonna gamble on a high priced player, better to pay your own, first. Sends a more positive message throughout the locker room.

I also happen to think that Rak's much improved play didn't just start in 2013 in his "contract year". He started out 2012 like a man possessed. Trouble was, he got hurt 2 games in. The New Orleans game, in it's entirety, is on this site. I suggest everybody watch it again. You'll see a top flight OLB playing. I believe his name is, Orakpo. Love to see him play on a more talented unit.

Here.

 

[Henry]

Here is NFL.com's list of top 2014 free agents:

1. Jimmy Graham, New Orleans Saints tight end
2. Greg Hardy, Carolina Panthers defensive end
3. Brian Orakpo, Washington Redskins linebacker
4. Jairus Byrd, Buffalo Bills safety
5. T.J. Ward, Cleveland Browns safety
6. Alterraun Verner, Tennessee Titans cornerback
7. Branden Albert, Kansas City Chiefs left tackle
8. Michael Johnson, Cincinnati Bengals defensive end
9. Lamarr Houston, Oakland Raiders defensive end
10. Brent Grimes, Miami Dolphins cornerback
11. Eugene Monroe, Baltimore Ravens left tackle
12. Vontae Davis, Indianapolis Colts cornerback
13. Linval Joseph, New York Giants defensive tackle
14. Jason Hatcher, Dallas Cowboys defensive tackle
15. Jared Veldheer, Oakland Raiders left tackle
16. Aqib Talib, New England Patriots cornerback
17. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Denver Broncos cornerback
18. Alex Mack, Cleveland Browns center
19. Eric Decker, Denver Broncos wide receiver
20. Michael Bennett, Seattle Seahawks defensive end
21. B.J. Raji, Green Bay Packers defensive tackle
22. Sam Shields, Green Bay Packers cornerback
23. Walter Thurmond, Seattle Seahawks cornerback
24. Donald Butler, San Diego Chargers linebacker
25. Randy Starks, Miami Dolphins defensive tackle

Feel free to point out who we should sign at linebacker. It's either that or draft one and hope he's a first round talent. Or we can hope Jackson's one year (almost) as a starter is enough evidence to convince you that he, at 29, is the future at OLB. By the way, isn't Jackson a free agent this year? If he discovers he's earned a spot as a starter on the team, how much do you think he'll ask for? 700K again? I highly doubt it. He may not be the safe-bet bargain some of you all think he is.

Like it or not the market is going to dictate a high price for Orakpo, because there just aren't a lot of linebackers out there. Sure it sucks that Orakpo has the leverage here, but it is what it is.

 

[Ax]

Yep. And chances are, every player on that list will be overpaid.

 

[Henry]

What you keep ignoring is that his position is a hole now, he's a free agent. We have other more important holes to fill than a good pass rush specialist...not even great.

He's different than a free agent from another team because

a) we know he can produce here so it's not as much of a dice roll and
b) we can franchise him, which gives us at least SOME leverage. If we end up trying to deal with a FA from another team we have no leverage whatsoever and will overpay even more. So we'd better hope it's a good roll.

 

[tshile]

Here is NFL.com's list of top 2014 free agents:

1. Jimmy Graham, New Orleans Saints tight end
2. Greg Hardy, Carolina Panthers defensive end
3. Brian Orakpo, Washington Redskins linebacker
4. Jairus Byrd, Buffalo Bills safety
5. T.J. Ward, Cleveland Browns safety
6. Alterraun Verner, Tennessee Titans cornerback
7. Branden Albert, Kansas City Chiefs left tackle
8. Michael Johnson, Cincinnati Bengals defensive end
9. Lamarr Houston, Oakland Raiders defensive end
10. Brent Grimes, Miami Dolphins cornerback
11. Eugene Monroe, Baltimore Ravens left tackle
12. Vontae Davis, Indianapolis Colts cornerback
13. Linval Joseph, New York Giants defensive tackle
14. Jason Hatcher, Dallas Cowboys defensive tackle
15. Jared Veldheer, Oakland Raiders left tackle
16. Aqib Talib, New England Patriots cornerback
17. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Denver Broncos cornerback
18. Alex Mack, Cleveland Browns center
19. Eric Decker, Denver Broncos wide receiver
20. Michael Bennett, Seattle Seahawks defensive end
21. B.J. Raji, Green Bay Packers defensive tackle
22. Sam Shields, Green Bay Packers cornerback
23. Walter Thurmond, Seattle Seahawks cornerback
24. Donald Butler, San Diego Chargers linebacker
25. Randy Starks, Miami Dolphins defensive tackle

Feel free to point out who we should sign at linebacker. It's either that or draft one and hope he's a first round talent. Or we can hope Jackson's one year (almost) as a starter is enough evidence to convince you that he, at 29, is the future at OLB. By the way, isn't Jackson a free agent this year? If he discovers he's earned a spot as a starter on the team, how much do you think he'll ask for? 700K again? I highly doubt it. He may not be the safe-bet bargain some of you all think he is.

Like it or not the market is going to dictate a high price for Orakpo, because there just aren't a lot of linebackers out there. Sure it sucks that Orakpo has the leverage here, but it is what it is.

There seems to be quite a people falling into this fallacy that we have to have our solution at OLB right now, that there are no other options.

Maybe the fact that Orakpo is the best OLB available is just proof that we should sit tight and not try to make a move for our future OLB stud this year...

In fact we could very easily put a 1 year guy in that will do 'good enough' and take a look at the draft market next year (when we have all our picks again) and the FA market.

We don't need our long term solution at this one position solved right now. What we need is good decision making all the way around and an organization that has a long term plan and subscribes to it.

 

[tshile]

by the way, the team that just won the superbowl did so with half their roster being undrafted FA's.

So... there's more than one way to skin the cat. I'd prefer we stop overpaying for over hyped players and try alternative solutions. For once.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

by the way, the team that just won the superbowl did so with half their roster being undrafted FA's.

So... there's more than one way to skin the cat. I'd prefer we stop overpaying for over hyped players and try alternative solutions. For once.

Except that this is our own, homegrown player. So it is a different approach, IMO.

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[Lanky Livingston]

by the way, the team that just won the superbowl did so with half their roster being undrafted FA's.

So... there's more than one way to skin the cat. I'd prefer we stop overpaying for over hyped players and try alternative solutions. For once.

Half?

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[Henry]

There seems to be quite a people falling into this fallacy that we have to have our solution at OLB right now, that there is no other options.

When in fact we could very easily put a 1 year guy in that will do 'good enough' and take a look at the draft market next year (when we have all our picks again) and the FA market.

We don't need our long term solution at this one position solved right now. What we need is good decision making all the way around and an organization that has a long term plan and subscribes to it.

It depends on where you think this team is. If you think it's in 'full rebuild' mode and want to blow it all the hell up, sure. Let everyone who wants more the $5 million a year go, draft a ton of players and try and build for three years from now.

If you think we are closer than that to being competitive, as I do, I think taking a step backwards is a mistake.

Every team goes through this. The amazingly perfect Seahawks are having this same conversation about Bennett and Tate right now. It's life in a league with free agency. Veterans are going to get paid a lot. Do we want any on our team? And if so, do we want our guys or some other teams guys? I know we don't want to sign anymore Hayensworths, but do we want our Jon Jansens?

Right now the Redskins biggest cap hit in 2014 is Trent Williams. He has the 49th biggest cap hit in the league at a little under $11 million. If we pay Orakpo $11 mil straight up, no bonus, as a franchise player, his cap hit will put him tied for 48th. And that's not taking into account whatever new contracts are signed this year. Do you all REALLY think that will cripple our team relative to other teams? I get wanting to be frugal, but we don't need to go overboard the other way either. Balance is fine, and I think signing our best pass rusher, a guy we ourselves drafted, to a decent deal maintains that balance.

 

[TomE]

Rich Tandler argues that even with the franchise tag, Rak will still not quite get into the 'elite' pay scale.

The tag makes sense in my mind if a reasonable market value can not be be reached.

Allen seems to have a pretty good handle on market worth and contract structure. The money part of this equation is almost a moot point as long as some team doesn't go nuts like the ol' Skins and comes in with some outrageous sum that is out of Allen's comfort zone.

Should Orakpo be paid like an ?elite? pass rusher? | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

The numbers have some fans complaining that the Redskins will be paying Orakpo “elite” money even though he’s not an elite player. They might be right about Orakpo not being elite; he’s probably in the second tier below the very best pass rushers in the game. But $10.9 million for one season is not elite money.

I pulled up the contracts of some of the elite (some actually formerly elite) pass rushers, both 3-4 outside linebackers and 4-3 defensive ends. Here are some of the top contracts based on average annual value:

•Mario Williams $16 million (6 years/$96 million)
•Julius Peppers $14.0 million (6 /$84 million)
•Clay Matthews $13.2 million (5/$66 million)
•Charles Johnson $12.7 million (6/$76 million)
•Jared Allen $12.2 million (6/$73 million)
•Chris Long $12.0 million (4/$48 million)
•Tamba Hali $11.5 million (5/$57.5 million)
•DeMarcus Ware $11.1 million (7/$79 million)
•Calais Campbell $11 million (5/$55 million)
•Terrell Suggs $10.4 million (6/$62.5 million)
•LaMarr Woodley $10.25 million (6/$61.5 million)

His post injury production, by all accounts, has not gone down, in fact many have mentioned that he was better after injury, so the concerns with injury should be focused on availability and potential 'proneness'.

Availability is a good argument but if the guy is healed, physically trained to protect and schematically is in better position not to stress his upper body then is most recent injuries should be mitigated.

Proneness for injury with Rak is a tough one so far, his record might lend itself to a conclusion but again, proper training along with refined technique and schematic tweaking should protect him from recurrence.

Now if he blows out something in the lower body then it's a new concern.... something about his chosen craft makes it hard to put a number on this variable.

Rak's talent level, leadership and the fact that he is a 'homegrown' Redskin should be enough for we fans to want him back. Let Allen handle the money thing, Rak will get what he's worth to this team and nothing more if he stays.

 

[Henry]

by the way, the team that just won the superbowl did so with half their roster being undrafted FA's.

So... there's more than one way to skin the cat. I'd prefer we stop overpaying for over hyped players and try alternative solutions. For once.

The Seahawks are one of the more top-heavy teams in the league, actually. They have over $61 million tied up in just Harvin, Okung, Rice, Clemons, Avril, and Bryant. (We only have two players with a comparable cap hits on our team at the moment, Williams and Garcon.) Rice is probably a goner, being insanely overpaid and part of a WR tandem that cost the Seahawks something like $24 million against the cap last year for a combined 16 receptions and 248 yards. Clemons is probably also gone because you usually can't have three DEs taking up $30 million when you only start two. What saved that team was hitting on a gabillion late-round picks on defense at the same time. I guarantee you if we hit on as many 5th-7th rounders over the next few years, it won't matter what we do with Orakpo right now.

 

[Elephant]

He's different than a free agent from another team because

a) we know he can produce here so it's not as much of a dice roll and
b) we can franchise him, which gives us at least SOME leverage. If we end up trying to deal with a FA from another team we have no leverage whatsoever and will overpay even more. So we'd better hope it's a good roll.

this is based on the assumption that I want to replace Rak with a player from another team. I don't Jenkins and Jackson can fill the void for now at a fraction of the cost while we address more glaring needs.

 

[Henry]

this is based on the assumption that I want to replace Rak with a player from another team. I don't Jenkins and Jackson can fill the void for now at a fraction of the cost while we address more glaring needs.

Actually, that was in response to the assertion that OLB was a hole and Orakpo should be viewed in the same light as any other free agent from any other random team. And that I disagree.

And if we let Orakpo go, pass rusher then becomes our most glaring need. If we keep him then we can address less glaring needs.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Actually, that was in response to the assertion that OLB was a hole and Orakpo should be viewed in the same light as any other free agent from any other random team. And that I disagree.

And if we let Orakpo go, pass rusher then becomes our most glaring need. If we keep him then we can address less glaring needs.

It's really that simple.

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[Elephant]

Actually, that was in response to the assertion that OLB was a hole and Orakpo should be viewed in the same light as any other free agent from any other random team. And that I disagree.

And if we let Orakpo go, pass rusher then becomes our most glaring need. If we keep him then we can address less glaring needs.

Not buying it. We had a poor pass rush with him. We desperately need to have push up the middle that is currently non-existent...Jackson can get pressure. Now that we are staying with the 3-4, we need an NT more than we need Rak. WIth a player of Orakpo's quality at NT, the pass rush improves more than keeping the mediocre NT position with Rak on the edge.

And then there is the OL that we must improve if Robert is to gain his confidence back. Another season getting pummeled and McD5's prediction about us going after Jameis could come true. You tell me, what's more important. I think the OL is much more critical. We'll just have to score 30 points a game not 22 this season until we address the other needs on defense.

 

[fansince62]

Not buying it. We had a poor pass rush with him. We desperately need to have push up the middle that is currently non-existent...Jackson can get pressure. Now that we are staying with the 3-4, we need an NT more than we need Rak. WIth a player of Orakpo's quality at NT, the pass rush improves more than keeping the mediocre NT position with Rak on the edge.

And then there is the OL that we must improve if Robert is to gain his confidence back. Another season getting pummeled and McD5's prediction about us going after Jameis could come true. You tell me, what's more important. I think the OL is much more critical. We'll just have to score 30 points a game not 22 this season until we address the other needs on defense.

saw an interview with Hazlett last night - he stated Skins played 4-3 60% of the time last season.

 

[Henry]

Not buying it. We had a poor pass rush with him. We desperately need to have push up the middle that is currently non-existent...Jackson can get pressure. Now that we are staying with the 3-4, we need an NT more than we need Rak. WIth a player of Orakpo's quality at NT, the pass rush improves more than keeping the mediocre NT position with Rak on the edge.

And then there is the OL that we must improve if Robert is to gain his confidence back. Another season getting pummeled and McD5's prediction about us going after Jameis could come true. You tell me, what's more important. I think the OL is much more critical. We'll just have to score 30 points a game not 22 this season until we address the other needs on defense.

Jackson can get pressure? First of all, why do you think this? Because he played well as a starter for eight games of his six-year career?

Second of all, Jackson is a free agent as well. Jackson is a career backup who is older than Orakpo. Somehow he's attained a status in DC usually reserved for backup QBs. Yes, he's a fine player for a guy who made 700k last year. But you simply cannot have a team full of guys who make decent stop-gaps. That's no way to build a team.

Using that logic, one could just as easily argue that we got by just fine with our current OL when Griffin was healthy. Since Griffin will be healthy next year why waste time and cap space replacing offensive linemen that we've proven we can 'get by' with? We've had a top ten offense for the past two seasons. We have a terrible defense. We have glaring needs to be filled, so I say we ignore the OL this year because we can always add linemen some other magical time in the future when conditions are perfect.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I'm constantly flabbergasted by the comment that Rak "can't get pressure." I'd bet his QB hurries are in the top 10 in the NFL. Part of that is because he doesn't finish the sack all the time, and part of that is because we had no push up the middle. But he can definitely get pressure... Sometimes I think I was watching a different player, lol.

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[Lanky Livingston]

Second of all, Jackson is a free agent as well. Jackson is a career backup who is older than Orakpo. Somehow he's attained a status in DC usually reserved for backup QBs. Yes, he's a fine player for a guy who made 700k last year. But you simply cannot have a team full of guys who make decent stop-gaps. That's no way to build a team.

Anthony Mix, Sultan McCullough, Mason, Marko Mitchell... Redskins fans love the underdog story, I guess.

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