The Peyton Manning discussion

[Jimbo]

I could see Luck/Griffin being more like Manning/Rivers than Carr/Harrington or Manning/Leaf. We're talking about a couple of VERY intelligent, high character guys here.

I think the situation some of the guys on that list end up in, more often than not, determines future success. Had David Carr ended up on a non-expansion team that had an O-Line, and was able to sit for a year or two, he "might" have been more successful. Hard to say about Harrington. The Lions were simply a BAD team during his time there. Ryan Leaf, on the other hand, was a knucklhead who probably would have been a bust no matter what although I did attend a game he played very well in (against Denver) but was outdueled by some guy named Gus Frerotte.

 

[Bulldog]

Peyton is 36, Flynn is a former #7 pick with 2 games of experience and Orton is 29 and a journeyman, although still superior to Grossman.

With those questions I think you have to look at a trade to obtain Griffin.

The Giants made a similar move to get Manning in 2004.
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[Neophyte]

The Giants made a similar move to get Manning in 2004.
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And I think the results of that trade speak for themselves this morning, don't they?

 

[Jimbo]

Peyton is 36, Flynn is a former #7 pick with 2 games of experience and Orton is 29 and a journeyman, although still superior to Grossman.

With those questions I think you have to look at a trade to obtain Griffin.

The Giants made a similar move to get Manning in 2004.
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It really IS a no-brainer, at least to me. If we're smart in FA, we can possibly overcome the loss of those draft picks. The Giants eventually did.

 

[Skinsfan76]

The Giants gave up Rivers (the #4 overall selection) a 3rd round pick and then the 1st and 5th rounders of the next year. If we could trade up and get Griffin for our first and third rounders this year and our first and fifth next year, I would do that deal in a second. The question is, will Shanahan and Allen?

 

[Bulldog]

Probably not because the front office and ownership will like the buzz of having Manning on board.

Then they won't have to rip out any more seats to avoid blackouts!
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[fansince62]

Probably not because the front office and ownership will like the buzz of having Manning on board.

Then they won't have to rip out any more seats to avoid blackouts!
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funny!

let's hope the stupid factor doesn't prevail again in the FO.

 

[Yusuf06]

And I think the results of that trade speak for themselves this morning, don't they?

Waaaay too expensive. They should've traded down and taken an OL and a CB instead.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

the giants when they traded for Manning, were on the cusp and had depth and talent, we are not at that point.

Yes Lanky and thank you, thats exactly what I was talking about.

 

[Skinsfan76]

All do respect but I've got to disagree. I just don't think that Luck AND Griffin won't be successful because the top two QBs usually aren't is not a strong argument. You have to look at these guys as individuals and make a decision not base it on two other players that have nothing to do with the current situation.

I could see looking at Matt Barkley(if he came out this year) and being fearful of drafting him because of fellow USC guys Sanchez and Leinart because there is a common thread but with Luck, Griffin and all of the top two QBs in the last twenty years there is no thread.
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[Neophyte]

the giants when they traded for Manning, were on the cusp and had depth and talent, we are not at that point.

At the beginning of the season I would have agreed with you but not by the end. This team had so many injuries it wasn't funny, starting with Jenkins even before the season began.

By the end we were working 8 or 9 deep on the OL chart, 4 deep on the RB chart, 4 deep on the TE chart and 6 deep on the WR chart. The wild thing is that even with all that this team was 4 to 8 plays away from a 9-7 season (which would have won the NFC East by virtue of our head to head record with the Giants).

With QB play ranking in the Top 10 of the league, this team has enough talent and depth to compete in the NFC East and we all saw what the Giants did once they got into the playoffs. This team can absolutely afford to do what it takes to move up and take a shot at a franchise QB. To do any less at this point would be nearly criminal.

 

[fansince62]

At the beginning of the season I would have agreed with you but not by the end. This team had so many injuries it wasn't funny, starting with Jenkins even before the season began.

By the end we were working 8 or 9 deep on the OL chart, 4 deep on the RB chart, 4 deep on the TE chart and 6 deep on the WR chart. The wild thing is that even with all that this team was 4 to 8 plays away from a 9-7 season (which would have won the NFC East by virtue of our head to head record with the Giants).

With QB play ranking in the Top 10 of the league, this team has enough talent and depth to compete in the NFC East and we all saw what the Giants did once they got into the playoffs. This team can absolutely afford to do what it takes to move up and take a shot at a franchise QB. To do any less at this point would be nearly criminal.

emphatically agree.

what this team needs...and the Gints/Pats, etc., have enjoyed....is a strategy consistently applied over many years. the biggest problem we have isn't really the roster...it's been a FO that has changed course every 2-3 years.

the whole build through the draft/QB argument is..in some ways IMO...just a variant of the chicken & egg dilemma. recent evidence is clear that strong teams can be assembled fairly quickly with franchise QBs drafted early in the process. it's been done before. the Redskins need to decide on how they want to strike out on this path: deliberately and systematically building over many years, or taking some gambles and going after game changers. I normally favor the former, but QB is the one position where the benefits merit the risks IMO. other teams see this...it's high time the Skins move on from a Rex Grossman view of opportunities and push for true excellence.

 

[Ax]

If we can trade up for RGIII, and he turns out to be "The One", then no price is too high. Because nobody can be "The One" without he has some help around him. Meaning we will have found a way to make up for however many picks it costs us.

If we trade up and he's a flop, I doubt many will be saying, "Hey, we tried and it didn't work. What the heck?"

No, it will be all about how dumb and inept the FO was for not "knowing" he was going to flop. The only way the FO can win, is to be right. And that's a 50-50 proposition, at best.

We need to be as lucky as all the teams who got, lucky, have been.

 

[fansince62]

If we can trade up for RGIII, and he turns out to be "The One", then no price is too high. Because nobody can be "The One" without he has some help around him. Meaning we will have found a way to make up for however many picks it costs us.

If we trade up and he's a flop, I doubt many will be saying, "Hey, we tried and it didn't work. What the heck?"

No, it will be all about how dumb and inept the FO was for not "knowing" he was going to flop. The only way the FO can win, is to be right. And that's a 50-50 proposition, at best.

We need to be as lucky as all the teams who got, lucky, have been.

sure...chance plays a role. so...tell me Ax...when you got married (assuming there is a Mrs Ax).....was "she the one"...or was the decision based on a 50/50 chance? would you have preferred to not take the chance and simply build a roster of reliable girlfriends and a secure lifestyle before committing?

for that matter...why doesn't the 50/50 metric apply to all the other players a team drafts? in which case QB is no different. and we return to where we started -> risk/reward.

 

[Ax]

sure...chance plays a role. so...tell me Ax...when you got married (assuming there is a Mrs Ax).....was "she the one"...or was the decision based on a 50/50 chance? would you have preferred to not take the chance and simply build a roster of reliable girlfriends and a secure lifestyle before committing?

Well, by the time I met my wife to be, all I dealt with, were women considered "top ten" picks. Of course, having unlimited picks, I went through them like Dan Snyder went through trees looking for a better view of the river. She had a less than 10% chance of making it any further than the majority of her predecessors did. Which was the Practice Squad.

So yes, she is "The One". And I was DAMN LUCKY to have stumbled onto her, and then ultimately making the best decision I've ever made in my life. She's the brave one though. She played the first seven years without a contract. Of course, she's now the owner.

for that matter...why doesn't the 50/50 metric apply to all the other players a team drafts? in which case QB is no different. and we return to where we started -> risk/reward.

Well, they all are a 50-50 shot. So what? All I said was, if they get it right, no price is too high. And if they get it wrong, they'll be crucified for getting it wrong.

Is there a problem officer?

 

[fansince62]

Well, by the time I met my wife to be, all I dealt with, were women considered "top ten" picks. Of course, having unlimited picks, I went through them like Dan Snyder went through trees looking for a better view of the river. She had a less than 10% chance of making it any further than the majority of her predecessors did. Which was the Practice Squad.

So yes, she is "The One". And I was DAMN LUCKY to have stumbled onto her, and then ultimately making the best decision I've ever made in my life. She's the brave one though. She played the first seven years without a contract. Of course, she's now the owner.


Well, they all are a 50-50 shot. So what? All I said was, if they get it right, no price is too high. And if they get it wrong, they'll be crucified for getting it wrong.

Is there a problem officer?

lmao!!!

Ax....my man....you never fail to deliver. whether I agree or not....you always crack me up (in a manly way, of course)!!! glad we crossed paths on BGO!!!!

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Someone asked on Twitter if bringing Peyton in on a 100% incentive-based deal would make him a more appealing option; maybe? I still don't really like the idea of a 36 year-old QB on a rebuilding team.

 

[Jimbo]

Most of the great QB's really started to fade/break down around the age of 36 although there has been an exception or two like Brett Favre. I'm less enamored of the idea now than I originally was but if we got Manning AND Griffin or a developmental guy like Tannehill, I'd be willing to give it a chance before calling for Mike's head.

 

[Skinsfan76]

http://www.csnwashington.com/blog/redskins-talk/post/Buzz-building-for-Manning-to-Redskins?blockID=647430&feedID=6458

Not a whole lot of new info here, but Peyton to the Skins is a big discussion. I still think we will be interested in Peyton but overall Peyton will choose to sign elsewhere.

 

[fansince62]

Someone asked on Twitter if bringing Peyton in on a 100% incentive-based deal would make him a more appealing option; maybe? I still don't really like the idea of a 36 year-old QB on a rebuilding team.

leaning in your direction on this one....but not totally sure. it does suggest Shanahan is feeling the heat and is searching for a quick QB fix.