Your 2024 Roster Building Blocks?

My guess is Jonathan Allen is NOT among the players a new GM will be looking to move on from first.

If Allen requests a trade or doesn't embrace a new coach then of course I think a trade could happen.

But Allen can play, he made 3 pro bowls for this team and is only 28/29.

A new GM in my mind has to get his arms around an offensive line that doesn't have a SINGLE player capable of starting on a good football team, as well as a defensive backfield that could set some records for passing yards against.

Wide receiver is a position where immediate starters are available in free agency and the draft so perhaps a move is made there with Terry.

He would look good in Kansas City catching passes from Patrick Mahomes.

He is also in that 28/29 age range but unlike DTs, wide receivers primes often come earlier and fewer of them are top contributors into their 30's.
 
I think the assessment of 'how far away are we?' is pretty critical. Holding a fire sale if a new GM feels like bolstering a few position groups can turn this around quickly might be unlikely. On the other hand if a new GM feels we've over-valued a lot of our existing talent then all bets may be off.

We will see. But I agree that there should be no one 'sacred' or 'untouchable'.
 
Boone said:
I think the assessment of 'how far away are we?' is pretty critical. Holding a fire sale if a new GM feels like bolstering a few position groups can turn this around quickly might be unlikely. On the other hand if a new GM feels we've over-valued a lot of our existing talent then all bets may be off.

We will see. But I agree that there should be no one 'sacred' or 'untouchable'.
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this is the big question imho

Personally, i think this team is a lot better than a 4-9 record.. and i'm not hanging my hat on 'near misses' as much as i'm looking at the roster and the talent on the team, paired with, i personally believe, a major mismanagement regarding coaching. Simply better coaching, and defensive scheme, likely improves the feeling around this roster. in addition to that, a completely fresh start from a leadership standpoint changes a lot. Pair those things with A LOT of resources to invest in the roster in the upcoming offseason, and this ship can likely be righted very quickly. Now that doesn't mean we are likely to be contenders in 2024, but at least the direction can be adjusted. It's less about who are 'building blocks' and more about replacing the actual liabilities. Then it becomes about adjusting those liabilities to either move on, or move them to a place they are no longer an issue. I've mentioned him a ton before... it's the Austin Reiter effect. Drafting a guy like Marvin Harrison Jr would likely instantly inject life into Terry McLaurin and Jahan Dotson, because you create a matchup problem as he would garner attention. Drafting Brock Bowers would have a similar effect, as you likely can't cover him with an LB one on one.. Not saying these are my preference, just using them as an example. The trickle down effect is real, so building blocks tend to evolve as the roster does. Jamin Davis can be a building block, but he's never likely to be a dominant, alpha, MLB that we've wanted. He was over-drafted, but he can still be a vital piece as we move forward.


I know that's not really the root of the question, but i've been hesitant to respond to this thread, because I've had a hard time interally determining the definition of 'building block'. Obviously I know that the root of the question wasn't to say, 'These are my 6 building blocks, so expect 47 new guys on the game day roster' but i think the question is deeper than just that.

If i had to answer WHO is completely untouchable? Nobody. I hate to say that as I love Terry Mclaurin, Jon Allen, Sam Howell, and others. If we're making a 'big board' of roster management, those are likely the first 3 names that go up on the board, and would require a hell of a return, or a massive upgrade, fo rme to change my mind.
 
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That's where I stand SilentThreat. I don't think all of us were wrong (this board, media pundits, insiders) before the season began. Everyone pretty much saw this as a talent laden roster with a question mark at QB, OL, and LB. I think that we weren't fooled and that it wasn't a mirage. I think we have an above average to very good WR corp. Believe it or not, I think we have good DBs based on the preseason. The reason being, when both sides were playing vanilla our DBs shone. That suggests to me that on a pure talent basis we're okay. I think what we feared about the o line also proved to be true. It's bad. I'm not sure if we have a single starter worth keeping. Their ceiling was a C and they too often played closer to their floor. I was hoping Paul might be one of those discoveries and he and Larson did stabilize the line a bit, b B/A-)ut when the D needs pressure they get it. D Line I also think is an example of underperformance and scheme. Mind you, I also think they have been consistently overrated. Just because they were four first rounders did not mean they were going to be ultra dominant. I think our d line topped out in that good range, but as a four man unit was too often neutralized.

Trying to remember my preseason thoughts:

QB: Hope the kid can grow into a player, but have no idea.
RB: Two Eddie George's and a speed guy who can't find the hole. (Above average C+/B))
WR: McLaurin and Dotson should scare folks. Samuel as a utility guy should, too. Brown is a dangerous backup because of speed, but iffy hands and concentration make ya wonder. (Very good B/A-)
OL (D/D+)
DL Thought Young might not come back but might be Phillip Daniels good. (B/B+)
LB Sketchy starters and not a lot as far as back ups go (C)
DB: Really good safeties, Solid corners, wasn't sure about health, but liked the group a lot (B)

This talent was why I really thought we would wind up at 9-8 or 8-9. Too much talent not to get to the middle and Rivera seemed really good at rising to the middle.

Reassessment of talent based on the 23 season:
QB: I think we have a starter. (B with potential to be better. Need to see him with a line and some support)
RB: Robinson's ability as a receiver surprised me. I think he's taken a step back as a runner. Even underused as he is Gibson can't stay healthy. The rook has looked good with limited touches (C/C+)
WR Dotson suffered a sophomore slump. Samuels has actually done a bit better in recent weeks. McLaurin hasn't really showed up enough this season (C+/B)
OL (D)
DL Underperformed expectations. Sweat actually wasn't bad. Allen hasn't been as good. Payne looks like he did pre-contract year. Young pressures then slacks. (C)
LB Sketchy starters and no backups emerged (D)
DB Safety play has disappointed. CB play has disappointed (D-/D)
 
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Our defensive talent is not good. Aside from Payne, Allen, and Curl, I don’t think there’s another legit NFL starter on this roster.
 
Boone said:
Our defensive talent is not good. Aside from Payne, Allen, and Curl, I don’t think there’s another legit NFL starter on this roster.
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You may be correct. I was high on both Forrest and Butler prior to the season. It was one of the reason the Quan Martin pick frustrated me so much. It's also one of the reason that I wonder about how much of it is talent and how much of it is scheme and predictability (or players turning it off and not giving a damn)
 
Forrest has had his moments. I’m not sold on Butler other than on ST so far although he’s flashed a few times. I guess it’s possible that Forbes will still prove to be a good one but I’m highly skeptical because Rivera is so often wrong. For those kept around I guess we will see how much of it was coaching/schemes or whether we just lacked the talent.
 
Boone said:
Our defensive talent is not good. Aside from Payne, Allen, and Curl, I don’t think there’s another legit NFL starter on this roster.
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I tend to disagree here. I think there are pieces. Fuller is having a decent season, i've heard a lot of local beat guys talking about he could be having his best season he's had here. St. Juste is also a capable player, but neither one is a no. 1 guy. You get a legit no. 1 guy, and those guys move down the depth chart a tick, it changes the matchups they have, while still being 'starting' players.

As Burgold mentioned, I think Forrest is a legit player, but the secondary as a whole has been exposed, despite being an absolute strength last season. Curl has vastly underperformed this year, is that because he's not as good as he has been, or is there more to it?

I look at Jamin Davis, and I think he's a capable NFL starter, but he shouldn't be relied upon the way he has. I look at him and I see how Dallas uses Micah Parsons, and I don't understand why we dont see more of that? Davis flashes quite a bit, but I think we tend to hold the 19th overall pick against him, creating the feeling he's not good enough to play.

A lot of room for replacement elsewhere, i agree, but I also think the book is still out on Toohill and Henry. They're not appearing to be book end / dominant DEs, but they have a place (yes I know you mentioned starters which is why i kind of threw them in later instead of at the top of the list....) I think they CAN start, but I think we can do a lot better as a 'benchmark' starting DE with these guys a part of the equation, not the solution to one.
 
There is a difference between ‘NFL caliber’ player and a true ‘NFL starter’. I’m not saying these players can’t play at the NFL level at all. I’m talking about guys who, if traded away, would be immediate starters on another team and the best at their position on a good roster. I don’t think Fuller or St-Juste or Forrest are those level of players. Fuller on a good day is a pretty solid corner, but he’s shown he can’t consistently cover other teams #1 WRs. St-Juste ditto.

Davis is a complete liability in coverage and is a mental midget the team doesn’t trust to play Mike LB, the position he was drafted for so they’ve resigned themselves to playing him at Will instead. They’d rather trust Barton (who isn’t good) than him.


No argument on the rest.
 
Just to pile on Davis, with his measurables and how they planned to use him, I was hoping he would become a 21st Century Monte Coleman. Speed for coverage. Strength for run support. Not a pressure/sack guy, but a guy who's everywhere on the field and always making plays. We needed a speedy linebacker to match up with tight ends and backs out of the backfield because those guys have killed us nonstop given Del Rio's entire run here.

He certainly has fallen short of that. It's hard to know if he's even become serviceable because the D as a whole is so bad. What's crazy is that as disappointing as he has been, he seems to be our best linebacker by a lot.
 
I don’t want a rush back to a .500ish record. When a team has no identifiable OL talent, no threat at TE, no true #1 WR, not one DE that is even close to stud level, very questionable LB play, CBs that struggle defending anything beyond 8-10 yards, and safeties that provide none…it is not a good or promising roster.

Even though most of us were fooled prior to the season, Vegas wasn’t. IIRC the win total by the oddsmakers for the team was 6-6.5 wins. That was probably largely due to starting Howell at QB. I think most of us expected the defense to carry the team while Howell went through his ‘growth and development‘ period. I personally was also banking on Bieniemy bringing more magic to the OC position than Scott Turner ever did. Neither happened.

Howell has exceeded my expectations despite the overall poor performance of the OL. Everything else has been a major disappointment.
 
I think the biggest thing is there is a lot of wasted talent on this team. Is that due to coaching or due to the player not being able to put it together on the field? I think in most cases it’s coaching, but there are a few that would never get it even if Lombardi was the coach. You aren’t going to turn over an entire roster in a year or even 2. What I hope is the new GM and coach have the ability to see which players are being misused and underused, and which ones will just never get it no matter how good their measurables are.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
What I hope is the new GM and coach have the ability to see which players are being misused and underused, and which ones will just never get it no matter how good their measurables are.
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If they aren’t the organization is in a world of hurt.
 
This team has pockets of talent but overall the 'gap' areas are as big as any in the NFL.

The offensive line is one of the worst.

The defensive backfield is one of the worst.

The linebackers are overall not NFL starting material, although a couple may be capable backups.

The tight end position is non-existent here and has been for the last couple of years.

That's a pretty significant portion of the roster :rotflmao:

The fact that the team has two defensive linemen who in recent years have been recognized with pro bowl or all pro selections (although not this year) and some wide receivers who can be traded to be a 1A or 2 on a competitive playoff team does not mean this is going to be a quick restart :confused:

I think Howell has proven he is an NFL caliber player, whether with more help he is a top 10 player capable of taking an otherwise strong Washington team in the future to the Super Bowl is anyone's guess.

The Rams under Jeff Fisher thought Jared Goff was a bust and was not capable of starting in the NFL even after taking him #1.

A couple of years later Sean McVay had Jared Goff as a starter in the Super Bowl and is currently 9-4 with the Lions.

So, SOME of it is coaching whether it is X's and O's or simply discipline and accountability.

BUT there is a LOT of 'earthmoving' to be don on this team - ie showing people the door.

Think Deion Sanders opening the transfer portal and telling his offensive line and receivers to hit the road coming in at Colorado :eek:
 
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