You are the HC. How do you pick your OC and DC?

SkinsNumberOne

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bowhunter had an interesting observation; basically that in the future, he hoped AP would help pick the DC by providing metrics on 1st half vs 2nd half performance. Basically, showing that the DC adapted.

I think that's a really subtle, measurable, and frankly great way to evaluate a DC. There are probably some other tweaks to it too.

It got me thinking though -
1) It seems that in most cases the HC picks the OC and DC, but I imagine in some cases the analytics department/GM help by providing data on other coaches.
2) What criteria would we (or should we) use to pick OCs and DCs?

I am very curious what people think.
 
Personally, what I would *not* do - is pick buddies just because they are buddies. It's possible that I may be a harder evaluator on friends because I think it will be harder to be more successful with a "buddy" environment. I don't know. I have worked well with friends in the past, haven't had any problems, but I could see circumstances being difficult for many and the other problem is perception. I know there have been perceptions no matter HOW I treated people. It's just human nature that people will think there's some favoritism or you were being a little lenient.

I think there are two things to take under consideration:
- past performance
- interview

I would put a lot of weight on how they performed in the interview. I would give them specific questions. For OC, I would ask them to tell me what their philosophy would be. How they would set up plans week to week for different types of opponents. I may give them a taste of what I would ask *beforehand* so they could come to the interview prepared. No need for some surprise question - in the real situation, they know their opponents anyway.

For DC, I think a lot of it is similar, but obviously the approach/answers are different.

As for past performance, I really like this halftime adjustment idea bowhunter had. I would probably add that they would need to have some kind of general minimum performance from the 1st half (in general; of course stumbles can happen, but I would also like to see those stumbles only happen against elite opponents) and then again *in general* improvement into the 2nd half. That seems like a really good way to measure the coordinator's ability to improvise and adjust in real-time.

If they are new to the position, again, the interview can be tailored for this maybe. It will be much harder to know whether they will notice and adapt to issues though if they haven't yet been forced to do it.
 
I think sometimes we as fans are 'off' in our criticisms of OC/DC selections when it doesn't work out. Head coaches should always have near absolute freedom to select the guys they want, regardless of analytics or any other input. Their success or failure can be heavily impacted by these choices, so they should be allowed to make those choices.

HC's, especially new ones, tend to bring in coordinators whom they are familiar with. As an example, Quinn brought Joe Whitt Jr. with him. I seriously doubt it's because they were 'friends'. I think he knew Whitt intimately, they had built one of the league's most dominating defenses in Dallas together, and he felt he was ready for the DC role. Fans tend to view these kinds of hires as a form of nepotism, but I think it has a lot more to do with relationships and trust. I agree that it can make it more problematic if/when things go south. I am not 100% sure the most important factor in putting a team together is that everyone loves each other and gets along famously.

I do think bowhunter has an interesting idea, and that analytics should at least be a major data set when choosing your ride or die at OC and DC. And along those lines, I think past performance as an OC or DC is the best predictor of future performance. Quinn took a big gamble handing over the DC reigns to a guy who may be a fine coach, but who there was no way of knowing whether he could be a successful coordinator or not.

Of course, availability of experienced coordinators with a wealth of experience and a track record of success at the NFL level, is always a big factor. It's not like those guys are 'growing on trees' and if you do have a number of former coordinators that meet those critieria, that they are likely to be available and interested in signing on with a team that has historically been bad with a dearth of talent on the roster.

It's easy to say 'hire a coordinator with experience who has consistently fielded great units in the NFL' - but finding that kind of guy is not easy.
 
If it were literally me calling the shots as head coach, I'd probably take a page out of the Jay Gruden playbook and not hire anybody who might be gunning for my job.

But in all seriousness...now that we actually have a real GM and a proper organizational structure, while I think the HC should absolutely have the primary say in picking their coordinators i also think the GM should have a kind of veto power on any coaching hire.

That way, there's a steady hand from above ensuring we stick to the team's overall vision and strategy. So, HC mostly gets the freedom to bring in his guys, but the GM makes sure we're not just hiring buddies and family members.

The NFL is built on nepotism and I think having the HC and GM aligned on any coaching hire helps offset that.
 
If Mike McDaniels gets fired then I want him or possibly Zac Taylor if he gets canned. I'm open to Dabol who I think is probably a better offensive mind than HC and I'm also open to promoting Lynn to OC.

At DC I would look at Schwartz if Cleveland fires the staff
 
I find all the talk about nepotism and ‘hiring buddies’ quite humorous. Does anyone really think that a hiring decision-maker places their personal comfort with an individual candidate above their capability to produce? That doesn’t seem like a solid plan for job security for those at the top of their profession.

As far as any HC employing that strategy being controlled by GM oversight, wouldn’t the GMs predilections also be a potential hurdle?

The coaching community, across all sports, is a fraternity. Be it right or be it wrong, it is the rule and not the exception.
 
On his last few podcasts, Keim was so on the money. One of the things he noted was that you have up decide whether you're going to focus on rotational players, depth players or impact players. He said you need more impact players, and when you get 'em, you play 'em. The team does have impact players that are too often limited by coaches keeping them in rotation instead of letting them do their thing (and coordinators not using them in ways that allow the team to reap the benefits of their skill sets). To me, seems he's pointing to the coaching staff, not AP. I'd ask how the OC and DC were planning to use certain players currently on the roster and those on the draft board and FA wish list. Keim pointed specifically to how Newton and Bill are being used (or not used). He mentioned a few others too, like Magee
 
As an example, Quinn brought Joe Whitt Jr. with him. I seriously doubt it's because they were 'friends'. I think he knew Whitt intimately,
Big Dog GIF by MOODMAN
 
I guess I would have thought some analytics of coaching candidates would be automatic, including adapting their schemes during the games as well as performance against various offensive schemes in the league. I mean we have an analytics department and they evaluate other coaches’ tendencies as well as players before each game. At least I think so.

The role of the GM in coaching selection varies by team and we don’t know how much say AP has for these decisions but the general operating style seems to be consensus so I would imagine a lot. I also think Quinn genuinely believed Whitt was a good choice but everyone human has bias when evaluating a friend and Whitt looked like the real deal as a position coach and that’s how they get promoted to a first coordinator job, possibly excepting the Ole Ball Coach. Whitt has now had his audition and Quinn knows he didn’t cut it.

Let’s not forget that scheme and adjustments (and personnel) are not all though. A good coach has to be a good teacher, a good motivator and a good disciplinarian. Our team has players consistently confused and out of position. Poor tackling. The wrong players in at the wrong time. And a DC who publicly throws them under the bus instead of taking responsibility and fixing the problem. It’s true they are really hurting at some positions due to injuries, I’m just saying the defense would have been better if Quinn had taken over earlier. It may be too late to have much effect this season.

I also think Quinn’s background as a DC could complicate things for next season. I get he wants to focus on being head coach and letting the assistant coaches run their side of the ball with his input and I approve. It really works much better when the head coach doesn’t have his attention divided, it’s an 80 hour work week regardless. My question is, will he be able to find a qualified guy who understands and has experience in the Dan Quinn general defensive system? How many are out there? For example there are not many other Kingsburys out there but are plenty of really good offensive coordinators who use some variation of the West Coast Offense. We’ve had a bunch of them here and then let them slip away.

Or would he be willing to adjust the system to fit some hotshot coach who has another approach and different preferences? Maybe someone like himself who was and is a great DC but failed as a head coach. There are probably more of those guys out there but would they take this job with Quinn at head coach? The interviews will go both ways, the candidates and team will both have to sell themselves.
 
On his last few podcasts, Keim was so on the money. One of the things he noted was that you have up decide whether you're going to focus on rotational players, depth players or impact players. He said you need more impact players, and when you get 'em, you play 'em. The team does have impact players that are too often limited by coaches keeping them in rotation instead of letting them do their thing (and coordinators not using them in ways that allow the team to reap the benefits of their skill sets). To me, seems he's pointing to the coaching staff, not AP. I'd ask how the OC and DC were planning to use certain players currently on the roster and those on the draft board and FA wish list. Keim pointed specifically to how Newton and Bill are being used (or not used). He mentioned a few others too, like Magee
I think you are right here - and what's interesting is, something changed this year.

Last year they asked Luvu to focus more on what his main skill was - he did a lot of rushing the passer, less coverage. Now they have expected him to react a lot more, to read the QB/situation, he drops into coverage a lot more this year. There have been various analysts talking about this. Luvu has dropped off as a result.

It's exactly what you are saying - use guys according to their skill sets - but strangely it's something that changed between last year and this year.
 
One thing that was kind of upsetting over last year and this year (so yes, this bad sign was present in 2024); the pressers have shown a disconnect between OC and HC here. Quick aside, but when we are guessing because of a fog of hard info, the pressers are generally invaluable here. When the coaches are forced in front of those mics, and they get to answering, invariably they let real information slip, and that's great when we are trying to piece together what's happening.

I think I mentioned it in other posts, but DQ and KK have been disconnected on the running game. KK has been very nonchalant, talking pretty consistently in a very positive light this year and last year about it. DQ, on the other hand, has talked about how they can improve, how they need to run more - he launched into a few minutes of talking about the importance of sticking with it even when you are getting 1-2 yards / rush. This is almost the exact opposite of KK's playcalling. Everyone knows it, too, which is a HORRIBLE characteristic in an NFL playcaller.

This actually was very similar to Ron Rivera and Turner, followed by Bienemy. I got tired of hearing the disconnect, because it was like - dude, you hired him! What questions did you ask? Did you care?

Now, I am seeing a similar thing play out, and that is the kind of thing that was probably in the back of my mind when I started this thread. Wouldn't you want to know your coordinators had the philosophy that you have? I get that DQ said in early pressers, he thought KK's offense was "hard" to plan for, but hearing him repeatedly contradict KK (subtle, but clear) in pressers about the run game performance... it gets annoying in a way. Again, you hired him - and KK is not doing anything unexpected here, I would say (just like Bienemy, frankly).

I really hope they can get on the same page with the next OC, whenever that happens. I don't think KK will be here longer than 1 more year at the most (2027, he will be out), and I think there is a pretty decent chance he won't want to stay next year. I'd say 85% right now. He's not having fun, at all, right now - and I think that was a big reason he stayed.
 
I think you are right here - and what's interesting is, something changed this year.

Last year they asked Luvu to focus more on what his main skill was - he did a lot of rushing the passer, less coverage. Now they have expected him to react a lot more, to read the QB/situation, he drops into coverage a lot more this year. There have been various analysts talking about this. Luvu has dropped off as a result.

It's exactly what you are saying - use guys according to their skill sets - but strangely it's something that changed between last year and this year.

It does remind me a lot of Jeremiah Trotter. The skills that made him a coveted FA were largely unused/not featured by our coaching staff. Instead of attacking, he was asked to be a read-and-react guy. That wasn't his game. Ever.
 
One thing that was kind of upsetting over last year and this year (so yes, this bad sign was present in 2024); the pressers have shown a disconnect between OC and HC here. Quick aside, but when we are guessing because of a fog of hard info, the pressers are generally invaluable here. When the coaches are forced in front of those mics, and they get to answering, invariably they let real information slip, and that's great when we are trying to piece together what's happening.

I think I mentioned it in other posts, but DQ and KK have been disconnected on the running game. KK has been very nonchalant, talking pretty consistently in a very positive light this year and last year about it. DQ, on the other hand, has talked about how they can improve, how they need to run more - he launched into a few minutes of talking about the importance of sticking with it even when you are getting 1-2 yards / rush. This is almost the exact opposite of KK's playcalling. Everyone knows it, too, which is a HORRIBLE characteristic in an NFL playcaller.

This actually was very similar to Ron Rivera and Turner, followed by Bienemy. I got tired of hearing the disconnect, because it was like - dude, you hired him! What questions did you ask? Did you care?

Now, I am seeing a similar thing play out, and that is the kind of thing that was probably in the back of my mind when I started this thread. Wouldn't you want to know your coordinators had the philosophy that you have? I get that DQ said in early pressers, he thought KK's offense was "hard" to plan for, but hearing him repeatedly contradict KK (subtle, but clear) in pressers about the run game performance... it gets annoying in a way. Again, you hired him - and KK is not doing anything unexpected here, I would say (just like Bienemy, frankly).

I really hope they can get on the same page with the next OC, whenever that happens. I don't think KK will be here longer than 1 more year at the most (2027, he will be out), and I think there is a pretty decent chance he won't want to stay next year. I'd say 85% right now. He's not having fun, at all, right now - and I think that was a big reason he stayed.
This is being reported now as potentially largely the reason Kliff was let go.

I put myself out on a limb with that "85%" but yes, it looks like it was right.

Now, THIS post is not about bragging or anything (I don't care), although since I think only a few of you maybe know my posting history that well - I hope I have earned some credibility when I say "hey I heard this" - I actually heard it. I am pretty careful to say things accurately, in all walks of life, and when I analyze, I am careful not to inject my opinions without recognizing it as opinion; not perfect so I appreciate criticism, but I am careful.

Anyway, THIS post is more about the original thread topic.

I made this thread because of something I guess we are going to need to answer here. The radio guys are starting to ask, I see others asking, why is DQ still here if both coordinators are gone? I also see people talking about how they are getting flashbacks to the Snyder years.

Guys this is NOT the Synder years. Snyder was de facto GM and owner, which meant we were never getting out from his direct hand in the dirty details. Now we will always have an opportunity for organizational refresh via a new GM. That means, no "25 years of wandering in the desert" anymore. Every time Harris decides the GM is not setting us up for success, he can hit the refresh button, and hopefully analyze where he went wrong with that hire (if at all, sometimes a good process leads to bad results, it just happens). So no, this is not and never will be the same as the Snyder years unless Harris starts deeply involving himself and stepping on the GM's toes. In all of Harris' other ventures (and there are many) he does not do that, so I think we are safe there. I think he will let AP/org succeed or fail, and reset on his schedule when he feels that they can't right the ship.

So that covers our new TOP of the ship.

As for AP, I think at this point we can say he likes DQ. Why? I think we all agree that he has a lot of say in DQ staying or going. I also think Harris is involved there, as in all successful NFL orgs, but my impression right now is that AP is heavily involved. So he gets along well with DQ. Where does this come from? The pressers, of course, but also - it's the ONLY way DQ stays when BOTH coordinators go.

That's a big deal for the DQ style HC, which isn't all that uncommon in the NFL these days, and is not a bad model for an org to follow. I think AP likes that structure, and frankly, so do I. I don't personally prefer the structures with a coordinating HC - don't get me wrong, I know they can succeed (see Reid), so I'm not going to be upset if we went that route, but I suspect AP likes the "managing HC" structure as I do. How can we tell (because it's conjecture)? He himself does it, and he clearly likes DQ who is also doing it, and they both do it very deliberately. They both continually talk about their direct reports in this fashion: OK, I will help you if you need it, but you need to be accountable for your actions. In the AP world, his main direct report is DQ (obviously he has others but in this aspect/side of his job, it's DQ). For DQ, it's the coordinators. I don't see either of them involving themselves in the details much at all of their direct reports.

I don't think that's a bad thing.

What I do see as bad, and maybe VERY bad - is how both executed their hirings.

AP hiring DQ instead of the other candidates available, in particular I would say Macdonald, may have cost us dearly. We can't cry over spilt milk, and yes we had a great year last year, but no one (especially Harris) cares about 1 year vs 5 or 7 or 10 years of sustained success. So right now we can't say we are confident of sustained success under DQ vs under Macdonald. That's not all DQ, but where we can say there may be an issue is how DQ picked his coordinators. This is one of his fundamental jobs in his own structure. As a "managing HC" he needs to be GOOD at hiring coordinators. He needs to know how to analyze the factors, evaluate, and pick the right guys. Going 0 for 2 out of the gate?

That's bad.

I don't think it's a mistake for AP to say, OK DQ, let's give this a shot with some new coordinators, and back DQ. However, if this next round doesn't work out, AP will maybe have this round counted against him as his own round 2 failure. That doesn't mean he'd be gone - it depends largely on his relationship with Harris. However, I do think at this point, you have a HC who failed at hiring 2 coordinators, that's a big red flag staring at you. You yourself should probably be looking at your hiring of him too, and how maybe there were issues there. If you keep him while letting BOTH coordinators go at the same time within 2 seasons, you need to question your "managing HC" because hiring the right coordinators is one of the key aspects of the job. We don't expect perfection there, but 0 for 2 out of the gate is a serious issue that can't be ignored.
 
If I'm DQ, given this might be last stretch as an NFL HC if I fail, I go and hire proven commodities at OC and DC knowing that ownership is willing to pay up for the best candidates I can bring in. Ideally, I'll have worked with them before to ensure they fit with me (especially given how the situation with KK played out). I probably bring Ullbrich and the ATL secondary coaches in here and then do some intense prayer that Mike McDaniel gets fired in Miami and bring him and his staff over (with a better OL coach like the ATL one)
 
Working on the basis that the GM has set the vision of what the team's identity will be and has selected me as a head coach because I am aligned to that vision, then I am primarily looking at coordinators with a strong background in schemes complementary to that identity around the league.

Then I'll look at results and metrics. What is the offensive output and (more difficult) consider output in relation to available talent. Evidence of in game adjustment is a really interesting idea, but I'm not sure looking at first vs second half performance is entirely indicative. I thought the idea of installing half-time adjustments has been debunked: it's a continuous process and there simply isn't time to tear up the strategy and communicate a new one in the limited time. But certainly reviewing adjustments and decision making, especially in the biggest moments (close games, particularly playoffs) needs to play a big factor.

When it comes to interviewing: ensuring they are meaningfully bought in and understand the vision. Confirming who they'd like for assistant coaches to ensure they also fit the overall strategy. Asking what they consider to be their biggest mistakes and what they've learned (and does this fit with my preconceptions of what the answers should be). If I'm building from scratch, what do they consider the biggest needs personnel wise (in this situation I may care less about existing talent); or, if I'm looking for continuity, how they plan to use existing talent.

Of course, some of the above might be contingent on previous coordinator experience. So if they've never been a coordinator before, I'm going to do the due diligence in understanding what they did contribute to gameplanning etc for the coordinator they report to.

I'd need some way of scoring all those factors, likely with weighting. If my gut feeling aligns to the scoring, I know I've found my guy.
 
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Social Representation is an important factor ---> Cleavage plus demonstrated skills.

Scot McCloughan was ahead of the curve.
 
Working on the basis that the GM has set the vision of what the team's identity will be and has selected me as a head coach because I am aligned to that vision, then I am primarily looking at coordinators with a strong background in schemes complementary to that identity around the league.
What I find interesting about what you wrote (well written by the way!) was - I don't think AP is doing what you assume from the GM.

AP doesn't seem to be setting the team identity from the GM side. I mean, I think he has some general "culture" aspects, but I think in terms of playcalling/scheme, he is leaving it up to DQ. I think this is where DQ severely botched his round-1 coordinator process too. I think his stated comment in those early pressers about Kliff - he was asked something like "why Kliff" -- his answer was, as a DC, he thought about who was tough to plan against. Those were people he kind of kept in mind for when he would get another shot as HC. So he was basically saying he thought Kliff was tough to plan against.

I think that's... somewhat reasonable. OK, I know he's not necessarily going to detail his thought process, but we have heard other HCs be a lot more methodical in the media in discussing their thought process. I also think it's reasonable to see a world where he watched Kliff in season 1 and maybe says "Hey run a bit more" (which Kliff confirmed in at least 1 2024 presser, that DQ did tell him). In 2025, Kliff and DQ had opposing viewpoints when asked about how the run game was going (in the same week) - multiple times. So, reading tea leaves (based on visible evidence), it seems like DQ didn't fully realize that he wanted/needed some schematic fit. Maybe he thought, whatever small things - they could work them out. I find that a reasonable guess on what happened (that he figured that out later), and maybe he better understands what he needs to find in a coordinator.

However - for a grizzled coach - I would have thought a lot of this would have been figured out before. So, that to me is not so great.
 
What I find interesting about what you wrote (well written by the way!) was - I don't think AP is doing what you assume from the GM.

AP doesn't seem to be setting the team identity from the GM side. I mean, I think he has some general "culture" aspects, but I think in terms of playcalling/scheme, he is leaving it up to DQ. I think this is where DQ severely botched his round-1 coordinator process too. I think his stated comment in those early pressers about Kliff - he was asked something like "why Kliff" -- his answer was, as a DC, he thought about who was tough to plan against. Those were people he kind of kept in mind for when he would get another shot as HC. So he was basically saying he thought Kliff was tough to plan against.

I think that's... somewhat reasonable. OK, I know he's not necessarily going to detail his thought process, but we have heard other HCs be a lot more methodical in the media in discussing their thought process. I also think it's reasonable to see a world where he watched Kliff in season 1 and maybe says "Hey run a bit more" (which Kliff confirmed in at least 1 2024 presser, that DQ did tell him). In 2025, Kliff and DQ had opposing viewpoints when asked about how the run game was going (in the same week) - multiple times. So, reading tea leaves (based on visible evidence), it seems like DQ didn't fully realize that he wanted/needed some schematic fit. Maybe he thought, whatever small things - they could work them out. I find that a reasonable guess on what happened (that he figured that out later), and maybe he better understands what he needs to find in a coordinator.

However - for a grizzled coach - I would have thought a lot of this would have been figured out before. So, that to me is not so great.
As fans, we can only speculate based on what we do hear, but I'd be disappointed if AP takes a hands off approach to identity. I'd not expect a GM to have too much control over the scheme. But if, for example, the desired defensive identity is a unit that creates a high volume of turnovers, a head coach that is married to a bend-but-don't-break approach should be low on the list of candidates. Similarly, I wouldn't be asking my scouts to focus exclusively on DBs that can cover but aren't physical and can't catch.

On the flip side, the GM should not willingly hamstring themselves by trying to enforce that identity too religiously. Maybe the ideal HC simply isn't available, or it may be necessary to make roster changes over a few years to get there. In which case, they should be looking for coaches who can adapt to a compromise scheme that best fits the available talent.
 
For a vet play caller, I want to see how the coordinator did in times of adversity and how he fared in direct competition with the other really good chess players across the table. I also want to see someone who is not so wed to a system that he can't look at his roster and switch it up. You get a bunch of big receivers? You got a bunch of little quick guys? You have mediocre receivers, but a hammer of a running back or a jitterbug? You have a finesse o-line versus a bunch of lumbering giants? How do you adapt to the players? How do you make the team as successful as the ingredients allow?

For a first time play caller, I want someone who clearly elevated his unit. Someone who too a rookie or JAG and made them a force to be reckonned with and whose group exceeded expectations. I want to see someone who when one of their starters went down their backup came in seemlessly and looked like a starter-in-waiting. I also want a workaholic with big dreams and tons of notebooks filled with sketched out plays. I want someone who sweats, dreams, and loves every moment of the game. If my HC is Joe Gibbs, I want my coordinator to be the disciplinarian or the general. If my HC is Belichik, then I want my coordinator to be more affable.
 
I find all the talk about nepotism and ‘hiring buddies’ quite humorous. Does anyone really think that a hiring decision-maker places their personal comfort with an individual candidate above their capability to produce? That doesn’t seem like a solid plan for job security for those at the top of their profession.

As far as any HC employing that strategy being controlled by GM oversight, wouldn’t the GMs predilections also be a potential hurdle?

The coaching community, across all sports, is a fraternity. Be it right or be it wrong, it is the rule and not the exception.

This is 100% correct.

If you are a head coach and you are not hiring people you trust you are going to fail.

That doesn’t mean new people aren’t ever brought in. If people you know recommend someone and think highly of them and then you interview them and what they say jives it can often work out.

But blind hiring someone with no ties and no one you trust vouching for them is the fastest way to find yourself unemployed.

My AD forced this on me this year and it was a disaster.
 

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