Will we sign Josh Norman?

[McD5]

For anyone worried that we overspent on Norman--we didn't. Nor did we risk a lot of future dead cap space.

The true details are now out, and as many of us hoped before the announcement, it's really a 2 year deal. Great work by our contract guys.


Reality of Redskins CB Josh Norman's deal: 2 yrs, $36.5 million, fully guaranteed; $500K in per-game roster bonuses in '17. Then, options.

@Albert Breer


Thus, Norman went from a one-year deal (Panthers) to a two-year deal (Redskins) with team options...

@AndrewBrandt


So Norman goes from being a top 5 corner in #NFL, to let go, to "system guy/over-rated" to over-paid by skins, to now reasonably paid.

@LRiddickESPN

 

[Henry]

Looking over the details now.

Josh Norman Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

Cap hit this year is $8 mil. Very reasonable.

2017 - cap hit is $20 million (!) and would cost us $28 million to cut him (!!!). I assume we are expecting the cap to go up a lot in 2017. I hope he has a career year in 2017.

Cap hit goes down after that. Not much, but by 2018 maybe $17 million against the cap won't be considered so much. Maybe.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but this looks like a 5 year deal to me, not a 2 year deal in disguise.

The one thing I really really do actually like about it is that it's not backloaded. So there's that.

 

[Bulldog]

Well, part of what we are counting on is signing Kirk Cousins to a long-term deal and turning his $20M cap number to something like $10M for the 2017 season

That will help.

 

[Fear The Spear]

It's a lot of money.

75 Million is not a lot of money, Henry.
At least, it's not what it used to be. In football. Or in life.
For one thing, the cap continues to go up, over the years, so a 75 Million contract ain't what it used to be.
And then there's inflation.
75 Mill used to be able to buy you several small islands, or a few small nations.....Not so much, anymore.

 

[Henry]

75 Million is not a lot of money, Henry.
At least, it's not what it used to be. In football. Or in life.
For one thing, the cap continues to go up, over the years, so a 75 Million contract ain't what it used to be.
And then there's inflation.
75 Mill used to be able to buy you several small islands, or a few small nations.....Not so much, anymore.

As of right now, Josh Norman will have the 11th highest 2017 cap hit in the NFL.

Nine of the ten players ahead of him on the list are quarterbacks. The other guy is Justin Houston.

Six of the next seven players behind him on the list are quarterbacks. The other guy is Ndamukong Suh.

It's a lot for a corner.

 

[McD5]

Henry, we're definitely on the hook for two years. No chance of us cutting him before then.

But take a look at the cap hit in year three.

Now to compare what our contract guys did versus contract guys around the league, Junior Galette earned $18 million dollars last year. Thanks to the New Orleans Saints

 

[Henry]

Henry, we're definitely on the hook for two years. No chance of us cutting him before then.

But take a look at the cap hit in year three.

$17 million against the cap, $9 million if we cut him?

 

[McD5]

Fear, $75 million is a lot.

Let's hope we pay him $75 million. But that would require him to be here 5 years, be healthy for each game, hit incentives, etc.

If disaster struck, we're paying him $36.5 million, and then either cutting him after 2 seasons or restructuring his contract.

To put that into perspective, that's $18.25 million a year for the next two. We're paying Cousins $20 million this year? And likely $18 or $19 million going forward each season if he performs and signs a LT deal.

 

[McD5]

$17 million against the cap, $9 million if we cut him?

If he becomes Haynesworth and we want him out? Forget about the cap number in that case, because he wouldn't be on the team. All that would matter is dead cap.

Dead cap $9 million after two years. Only $6 million after year three. And then only $3 million after year four.

We just got a top 5 CB without mortgaging our future on dead cap space after year two. That's a homerun.

 

[Henry]

If he becomes Haynesworth and we want him out? Forget about the cap number in that case, because he wouldn't be on the team. All that would matter is dead cap.

Dead cap $9 million after two years. Only $6 million after year three. And then only $3 million after year four.

Now look at what it would cost us to cut even Andre Roberts right now.

We just got a top 5 CB without mortgaging our future on dead cap space after year two. That's a homerun.

Oh I agree that its not a vinnie contract. As I said, its not backloaded and thats great.

Its not nothing though.

I dont hate everything about the move. Im only pointing out what does concern me about it.
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[Special K]

When was the last time he was wrong ?

He hasn't done anything to make me doubt him yet, which is why I'm more optimistic about this FA signing. I can't wait to see him and OBJ go after each other 2x a year 😂

 

[McD5]

Oh I agree that its not a vinnie contract. As I said, its not backloaded and thats great.

Its not nothing though.

I dont hate everything about the move. Im only pointing out what does concern me about it.
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It's really a two year contract. A bet by McLovin that Norman can become our Richard Sherman or Talib. We're paying him $18.25 million guaranteed a year in those first two to find out. That's our risk.

If not....we cut ties and we aren't severely wounded going forward.

That's a hell of a lot different than they were trying to make it sound on the tv yesterday.

 

[Bulldog]

The last three Super Bowl teams won with a combination quarterbacking, line play but also dominating play by the secondary.

Seattle in 2013 dominated the Broncos with Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, etc.

New England in 2014 returned the favor with Revis, Browner, Butler, etc.

Denver won in 2015 largely BECAUSE of Aqib Talib, Harris, Ward, etc.

Assuming we have an improved pass rush in 2016 with Galette and Kerrigan healthy and Preston Smith coming on, that still left us with a secondary that outside of Breeland offers list of injured and rehabbing players plus some younger guys with upside that need additional time.

 

[bird_1972]

The last three Super Bowl teams won with a combination quarterbacking, line play but also dominating play by the secondary.

Seattle in 2013 dominated the Broncos with Sherman, Thomas, Chancellor, etc.

New England in 2014 returned the favor with Revis, Browner, Butler, etc.

Denver won in 2015 largely BECAUSE of Aqib Talib, Harris, Ward, etc.

Assuming we have an improved pass rush in 2016 with Galette and Kerrigan healthy and Preston Smith coming on, that still left us with a secondary that outside of Breeland offers list of injured and rehabbing players plus some younger guys with upside that need additional time.

The key here is "line play".

We had better hope that Galette stays healthy, Kerrigan bounces back, Smith progresses to the next level AND we add some potential starters in the interior DL.

That's a lot of "ifs".

The concern I have here with the Norman move is that you do this when you are only one or two pieces away ... I don't the Skins fit that profile. Would have been best to wait to take this gamble until the talent level of the team was on more solid footing.

 

[McD5]

BT....there's no doubt that this was a huge need. Imagine if we hadn't made this move and Breeland got injured next year.

The other alternative is to draft a CB. But if we hit, how long would it realistically take that CB to become a top player like Norman? 3 or 4 years?

This defense needed an infusion of talent of guys playing at a high level right now. That is, if we want to do more than simply make the playoffs.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Norman, with some impressive praise for the 2015 and current Skins' team :

"I would say what attracted me the most was that it still was a competitive team," Norman said. "When we played you guys last year, y'all was competing all the way until the bitter end. It was no let-up. You guys had the fight in you all. You're a playoff team; it was in the thick of things. And one piece here, one piece there, you guys can do what Carolina (did) when they went to the Super Bowl last year. And when I came here and I said that (about) that one missing piece, who knows, but I guarantee I'm going to give everything I am, everything I've got, because that's how I get it."

Josh Norman: 'I got sideswiped' by Carolina Panthers - NFL.com

 

[Goaldeje]

The key here is "line play".

We had better hope that Galette stays healthy, Kerrigan bounces back, Smith progresses to the next level AND we add some potential starters in the interior DL.

That's a lot of "ifs".

The concern I have here with the Norman move is that you do this when you are only one or two pieces away ... I don't the Skins fit that profile. Would have been best to wait to take this gamble until the talent level of the team was on more solid footing.

Yes. YES. This is my misgiving with the signing. The money isn't mine, so what do I care? But this sounds an awful lot like a move you make when you think you're THIS close to the big show, and don't think we're nearly that close. CAR had him and let him go. Late. Obviously their's wasn't a money decision at this point in the off season, so you have to wonder what's up with that.

As El said, I hope this works out great for the team, Go Josh! But I have misgivings.

And I do think this puts enormous pressure on Barry and Gruden to make things work and to have us go a lot deeper in the playoffs than the WC round. Get busy, gentlemen.

 

[bird_1972]

Yes. YES. This is my misgiving with the signing. The money isn't mine, so what do I care? But this sounds an awful lot like a move you make when you think you're THIS close to the big show, and don't think we're nearly that close. CAR had him and let him go. Late. Obviously their's wasn't a money decision at this point in the off season, so you have to wonder what's up with that.

As El said, I hope this works out great for the team, Go Josh! But I have misgivings.

And I do think this puts enormous pressure on Barry and Gruden to make things work and to have us go a lot deeper in the playoffs than the WC round. Get busy, gentlemen.

I agree that I could care less about the $$ provided it doesn't hurt the team's chances of being able to lock down Cousins and Reed and still have cap space for other signings.

Heck, I didn't think we were a playoff team last year so I may end up being pleasantly surprised.

This draft is going to be huge for us. Still need DT, ILB, C, and S. And talent depth...

EDIT: Apparently this was a money decision by the Carolina FO but they kinda screwed Norman by doing this after all of the big money teams had spent all of their money in March/early April. That said, Norman still came out pretty darn good here.

 

[Fear The Spear]

The key here is "line play".

We had better hope that Galette stays healthy, Kerrigan bounces back, Smith progresses to the next level AND we add some potential starters in the interior DL.

That's a lot of "ifs".

The concern I have here with the Norman move is that you do this when you are only one or two pieces away ... I don't the Skins fit that profile. Would have been best to wait to take this gamble until the talent level of the team was on more solid footing.

If we wait until we're 1 or 2 players away, then what's the chance that a player of Norman's calibre, just falls into our lap, free of charge, at that time ?

Virtually zero chance of that happening.
So you take that once in a lifetime opportunity, when it presents itself, and grab Norman when you can.

The sequence of aquiring players doesn't matter. Either way, we're still the same amount of time (and players) away from being a contender.

Norman is still young. So, by the time we fill the other needs you mentioned, he'll most likely still be an elite CB for us.
So it's not like we're missing our window of opportunity by getting the elite Corner now, instead of later.
D-line first, and then Secondary ? Or Secondary first, and then D-line ? Does it really matter ? The end result will be the same. We win the Super Bowl in the next 3 years or sooner.

 

[McD5]

The key here is "line play".

We had better hope that Galette stays healthy, Kerrigan bounces back, Smith progresses to the next level AND we add some potential starters in the interior DL.

That's a lot of "ifs".

The concern I have here with the Norman move is that you do this when you are only one or two pieces away ... I don't the Skins fit that profile. Would have been best to wait to take this gamble until the talent level of the team was on more solid footing.

The D line is huge. Which is why it will likely be the top priority in the draft.

As far as waiting on a move like this, there is still a bigger problem with that. The macro picture is that a 3-13, 4-12 roster pretty much sucked. There was a big talent void there that needed to be filled with quality players.

We will lose 3-4 starters every year, due to injury, age, level of play...etc. Pot Roast, Alfred and Hatcher this year, for starters.

If we really hit on every draft, we'll score 3-4 new starters every year.

We can improve like that over a long period of time. As long as we hit every year in the draft. But there's still a wide gap going by only that process alone.

A great, newly drafted CB this season would take 3-4 years to reach Norman's level of play. If we want real improvement in those coming years, someone needed to be signed. There are just too many holes on the team that need to be filled by the draft alone.