why the shannahans are losers

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Rymanofthenorth

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they beat a struggling team 9-0 and act like they won the superbowl, they are undefeated, and have looks pretty solid this year yet they beat us 9-0 and made a huge drama about giving Mike the game ball. Mike shannahan killed this team, his idiot decisions were all time moronic and showed that he is a good oC and a terrible hc, I hope he never gets another HC job again.
 

Bulldog

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Kyle couldn't make too much of a statement after 9-0. He was hoping for a 27-3 type outcome he could really crow about.

That said the Redskins specifically Snyder and Allen submarined Mike Shanahan.

He came in here in 2010 and was supposed to be in charge of the roster.

Then Snyder/Allen made the unilateral decision to trade draft picks for an over the hill Donovan McNabb at 34.

A little over a year later these two decided again on their own to trade a generation of draft picks to the Rams for the Griffin selection.

Trouble was, Griffin played in a pinball offense in college and wasn't a top pro prospect. He couldn't get his footwork down in the pocket to complete a five step drop and throw.

In fact the Redskins gave up more for Griffin than the Broncos did to get John Elway.

Shanahan managed to put Griffin in a system he could operate but that system had a shelf life in the NFL.

Justin Tuck said at the time to enjoy Griffin because he was never going to hold up physically in a system that had him running the ball 12-15 times a game at his size.

In the end Tuck was right. Griffin was never the same after getting hit on the knee by Haloti Ngata.

So, in the end Snyder and Allen did the same things with Mike they did with Gruden.

Whether you liked Gruden or not they picked him to be the Head Coach but they refused to sign or trade Cousins and then traded for Alex Smith without Gruden being in the room.

Who else in the NFL consistently makes important personnel moves that affect the organization and don't get buy in from the head coach?

That's why this team loses.

And why no top coaching candidates want to interview here.

That's how we ended up with Greg Manusky as the DC.

The Redskins couldn't get a successful DC to come here.
 

Posse Lover

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I disagree Mike nor Kyle harmed this team. In my opinion from everything I remember about the 2012 draft, Mike didn't want RGIII and really didn't have the decision making he thought he did because Daniel Snyder had the final say. Kyle was a decent OC, he had RGIII and Alfred Morris basically unstoppable until the injury...defenses were confused as hell. Mike was professionally fired (he resigned correct?) Kyle now has his own team to gel-like, Sean McVay and the Rams. Mike Shanahan had he not had a meddling owner, I believe could have done better. The best coach he hired other than Gibbs was Marty Schottenheimer who also was professionally fired because he had all football power and Danny reneged on their deal or Marty saw what was to come and said F it. Speaking of Marty his son is a soon to be HC imo. I know that I am saying a lot and if I am wrong please correct me. And I didn't see anything wrong with giving his Dad the game ball, because he wouldn't be where he's at without him... just ironic that it was against us.
 

Ax

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Poppycock!

Shanahan reportedly had a guaranteed contract. Meaning he wasn't forced to do anything.

If he didn't, or Gruden didn't, or whoever the next HC doesn't, that is their own fault. Knowing past history of Snyder.
 

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No he had no role whatsoever.

He trusted Snyder when Snyder said he would be allowed to make the moves and then got a call afterward from Allen telling him that the club had made a great deal to acquire a proven winner in McNabb.

Shanahan was expected to make do with what a hack Team President in Allen decided was a fair deal for a key player.

Look, the bottom line here is Allen and Snyder.

Coaches and players have come and gone.

The former Redskins assistants are now 14-3 as head coaches. McVay was in the Super Bowl last year.

Preston Smith is on his way to a pro bowl season in Green Bay.

Kirk Cousins will probably make it as well.

Meanwhile Allen, a guy that never earned his way up the personnel tree by being a scout, personnel director, etc gets to play monopoly for this franchise.

And Snyder?

He needs Allen because he is afraid to confront the criticism and face the hard questions.

He prefers puffy charitable events to speak on other topics and avoid football altogether.

It's clear he has no clue.

Do you think the Patriots, Packers, Chiefs would employ a boob like Bruce Allen?

Hell no.

Gotta love his values.

Paying Brandon Scherff market value is too high for Bruce but at the same time Josh Norman is one of the highest paid corners in the NFL and has never come close to delivering value on that contract.
 

Ax

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And if you're so brilliant to know all this, how come the HC's are too stupid to have their contracts written to allow them necessary freedom.

Fact is, none of us know what the contracts said. But we all know that if you're worried about past history then you have CYA written into any deal, or you don't take the job.

We all know the story of the frog and the scorpion, right?

100% of the blame falls on Shammy, IMHO.
 

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If you believe that than you probably believe that Norv was the one that wanted to sign Deion Sanders and Jeff George in 2000 to big contracts.

See, the problem with your argument is how consistently this club has mismanaged personnel and the cap for20 years.

It's not one coach or any two coaches.

It's a half dozen regimes all being fed by Snyder first via Vinny Cerrato and then by Bruce Allen.

Vinny Cerrato never got a job in the NFL again after Washington. He is now a talk show host on radio.

Allen will go quietly into retirement with the knowledge he was able to work off Dan's insecurities to maintain a great paying gig for 10 years.

Forget the team is winning at a .399 clip during that time.

But don't forget that both Mike Shanahan and Jay Gruden were coaches that were heartily endorsed by Bruce as guys that were going to help turn this around.

Doesn't Bruce in the end have to answer for the coaches he had to fire?
 

Ax

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No sir, 'tis your argument that comes up short.

All of the history BEFORE Shammmy, is the reason why he, and every coach for the foreseeable future, should have their contracts give them what they want, or they walk.
If they're willing to cede authority, then they should simply STFU and do the best they can with what they agreed to.

It's that simple.
 

McD5

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All of the parties involved caused problems. Per all reports, Shanny had an intolerable ego. And his son walked around entitled like a petulant baby.

On the other hand, Dan and Bruce might literally be the two stupidest people in all of sports--they certainly are in the world of football.

100% of the blame falls on Shammy, IMHO.
This is like blaming the victim. "You were raped, but you should have known that guy was a pervert."

That's absurd. I have no idea why you continue to defend those two morons. They literally can't do anything right. They couldn't even spell London Fletcher's name correctly when he was inducted into the ROF.
 

Ax

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Yes. And we all know you're still butt hurt because they fired your anointed one.

If you were a head coach taking this job, and yes, I know you would never, but if you were, would you not demand language that gave you full authority?

Anybody that hasn't was an idiot would.

And just because I don't think Snyder and Allen blew up the Hindenburg, sank the Titanic, fired the kill shot from the grassy knoll, or cause lightning to start forest fires, it doesn't mean I'm defending them.

Get a grip.
 

McD5

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I couldn't care less who the coach is.

It's not like these issues just began a few years ago.

I've good a good grip, not emotional and very balanced, thanks.
 

Rymanofthenorth

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a few things
1- shannahan was on board with signing rg3, he pushed for it. thats according to many insiders btw.
2- shannahan had almost caret blanche on personelle and team matters, hence the disaster of the 3-4 change, the ruining of haynesworth and the destruction of our defence.
3-shannahan played rg3 when he was hurt which lead to a worse injury. period

how quickly people forget
 

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a few things
1- shannahan was on board with signing rg3, he pushed for it. thats according to many insiders btw.
2- shannahan had almost caret blanche on personelle and team matters, hence the disaster of the 3-4 change, the ruining of haynesworth and the destruction of our defence.
3-shannahan played rg3 when he was hurt which lead to a worse injury. period

how quickly people forget
Not sure what insiders you're talking about, but here in the DC area the "insiders" all say Shanahan did not want RG3!

He did not have anything to say about the McNabb trade.

He was told he'd have final say on player personnel, but it did not work out that way. You're working your assertions off news from 5 or 6 years ago when Allen and Snyder were trying to make it look like Shanahan was the reason the team failed, by leaking misleading info.

Like McD5 said, there is plenty of blame to go around, but you're wrong about it being only Shanahan's fault.
 
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fansince62

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There's only been one constant throughout this challenge to tolerance.
 

DieselPwr44

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Mike's got rings.

Kyle's at least made it to one.

Dan Snyder has....well.....

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/l3vQZ8ko4l0nvjm2Q" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/boy-crying-interview-l3vQZ8ko4l0nvjm2Q">via GIPHY</a></p>
 

Bulldog

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If actions and history are any judge, anything that comes out of Dan or Bruce's offices are suspect.

In order to believe them it means everyone else they hired has ruined the franchise while they have been innocent bystanders.

Every coach, scout, player, front office suit was hired and paid by them.

Haynesworth, McNabb and a host of others looking to take the money including Joshie Norman were all paraded as great deals at the time.

What's instructive is that teams like NE and GB weren't interested in Haynesworth or Norman.

They knew Haynesworth was only about the money and that Norman was a 4.6 zone corner who wasn't worth a top 5 salary.
 

SkinsNumberOne

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What's instructive is that teams like NE and GB weren't interested in Haynesworth or Norman.

They knew Haynesworth was only about the money and that Norman was a 4.6 zone corner who wasn't worth a top 5 salary.
I'm not sure about this statement because NE took Haynesworth later, after the Skins, right? They assumed the big B would either fix him with his team culture or they'd end up getting rid of him. Fast forward, he was given his walking papers.

Haynesworth's raw talent just couldn't match with his attitude.
 

Elephant

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I'm not sure about this statement because NE took Haynesworth later, after the Skins, right? They assumed the big B would either fix him with his team culture or they'd end up getting rid of him. Fast forward, he was given his walking papers.

Haynesworth's raw talent just couldn't match with his attitude.
We actually got a draft pick in a trade with NE.
 

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