who is to blame for the defencive debacle last year?

For God's sake man! Even the link you provided ranks the Redskins defense in 09 as the 10th ranked defense in the league!!! Yet you still think it supports your argument by suggesting they were average? OK, I will say even if they were not slightly above average, if they were merely average in 2009...

The 2010 defense sucked! A huge drop off!

Click the link and sort by 3rd down percentage. 21st in the league on 3rd down. That is about what that team's defense was: 21st in the league.

I also agree with Ax, time to focus on this year. Hopefully we see great improvement form the defense!
 
One of the ESPN 980 guys was talking about a candid discussion he had with Richie Petitbone this week. Apparently Petitbone pretty clear on what he considered the real measuring stick of NFL defenses.

3rd down percentage and turnovers.

Always did think Petitbone was The Man.
 
Hmmm...

During the 2010 regular season the following defenses led the league in limiting opponents third down conversion percentage.

1. NY Giants--31.7%
2. St. Louis Rams--33.5%
3. Pittsburgh Steelers--33.5%
4. San Diego Chargers--33.7%
5. New Orleans Saints--34.5%
6. Chicago Bears--34.7%
7. Oakland Raiders 34.9%
8. Washington Redskins--35.5%
9. Green Bay Packers--36.2%
10. New York Jets--37.0%


Taking the ball away from the opponents via INTs and fumbles the list is as follows.

1. NY Giants--39
2. NE Patriots--38
3. Chicago Bears--35
.. Pittsburgh Steelers--35
5. Philly Eagles--34
6. Green Bay Packers--32
7. Atlanta Falcons--31
8. Dallas Cowboys--30
.. Arizona Cardinals--30
.. New York Jets--30
The Redskins wound up tied for 15th with the Ravens with 27 takeaways.

Info link: http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/thirdDownConvPct/position/defense/order/false
 
Henry, im ok with changing schemes,, thats a fact of life, what im not ok with is epic failures when doing so. If you can find me ONE other team in the past 5 seasons that did what we did and had such poor results I will be amazed. its not a multi year thing, changing schemes always (seriously check the numbers) results either in modest improvement or huge improvement, or its a bad fit and teams abandone it, there really sint much middle ground.

Eh. That's a very small window you're giving me. The Redskins are not the Steelers or the Packers or any other number of teams that build and maintain their rosters in a traditional fashion. Our roster was crap. The team was completely rudderless. Expecting anything other than what we saw based on how this team has been savaged over the past decade, coupled with new schemes on both sides of the ball, was wishful thinking. I don't care what the 'new' was.

And I'm not saying this to absolve our current front office of anything. They made a ton of mistakes last year. But I do think you are overstating just how poorly they handled the defense.
 
Eh. That's a very small window you're giving me. The Redskins are not the Steelers or the Packers or any other number of teams that build and maintain their rosters in a traditional fashion. Our roster was crap. The team was completely rudderless. Expecting anything other than what we saw based on how this team has been savaged over the past decade, coupled with new schemes on both sides of the ball, was wishful thinking. I don't care what the 'new' was.

And I'm not saying this to absolve our current front office of anything. They made a ton of mistakes last year. But I do think you are overstating just how poorly they handled the defense.
how exactly? the drop pretty much says it all. this defence didnt stop anyone, it forced turnovers and ranked higher in that stats because not only did they have far more downs to potentially get turnovers, but early on when nobody had film , we played unsound coverages that confused people because they didnt make sense, later on when teams had film, they abused us badly (see egales second game) I dont see this changing his Haslett in charge. mishandling this defence on such a massive scale hasnt been seen in a long time I searched back and couldnt find even one instance where a team had such an epic drop off without major and serious injuries to starters.

Yes I completely agree that we had a talent depleted roster, and sadly it was aging however we had depth at some spots that we now have holes at. this was made much worse by this switch.
 
how exactly? the drop pretty much says it all. this defence didnt stop anyone, it forced turnovers and ranked higher in that stats because not only did they have far more downs to potentially get turnovers, but early on when nobody had film , we played unsound coverages that confused people because they didnt make sense, later on when teams had film, they abused us badly (see egales second game)

I dont see this changing his Haslett in charge. mishandling this defence on such a massive scale hasnt been seen in a long time I searched back and couldnt find even one instance where a team had such an epic drop off without major and serious injuries to starters.

You mean starters like, say, Albert Haynesworth? :)

I think you are overstating the massiveness and epicness of this dropoff. Hell, off the top of my head I can remember the difference in our defense between 2005 and 2006. It was at least as bad a drop. (In fact, upon looking it up I see that it was actually worse. We went from 9th in yards to 31st and from 9th in scoring to 27th, and from producing 28 turnovers to 12.)

It happens, and it's not unprecedented. Especially with new coaches and new players and new philosophies.


Yes I completely agree that we had a talent depleted roster, and sadly it was aging however we had depth at some spots that we now have holes at. this was made much worse by this switch.

Oh I agree the switch made it worse. No question. I just don't think it's necessarily the end of the world. We'll see.
 
Y

It happens, and it's not unprecedented. Especially with new coaches and new players and new philosophies.

That was the season our defense was decimated with injuries.
 
That was the season our defense was decimated with injuries.

Ah yes. That was the year Shawn Springs missed half a season and the floodgates opened. :)
 
One of the ESPN 980 guys was talking about a candid discussion he had with Richie Petitbone this week. Apparently Petitbone pretty clear on what he considered the real measuring stick of NFL defenses.

3rd down percentage and turnovers.

Always did think Petitbone was The Man.


Sounds like a smart man. I like him. I would add PPG, but if the above looks good, then your team should be good as well. Provided the offense does not constantly turn it over within kicking distance. :)
 
I like Petitbone but he was probably toeing the company line, after all he was known for aggressive 4-3 schemes but his defences usually didnt give up yardage either. The year that was referred to was when we actually tried to move to a tampa 2 scheme because our corner play was horrific after springs got hurt. to protect some non NFL quality dbs we went to a tampa 2 but our Dline at the time was pathetic and got zero pressure on its own, Williams system is predicated on unpredictable blitzing, so obviously it was a disaster, just not as bad as this drop was.
 
The year that was referred to was when we actually tried to move to a tampa 2 scheme because our corner play was horrific after springs got hurt. to protect some non NFL quality dbs we went to a tampa 2 but our Dline at the time was pathetic and got zero pressure on its own, Williams system is predicated on unpredictable blitzing, so obviously it was a disaster, just not as bad as this drop was.

Actually, as I noted, it was far worse.

And what you are saying was changing the scheme and losing one player for half of the season caused a drop-off of disastrous proportions.

That's pretty much my point. Like I said it happens.
 
Wait wait wait, so "tweaking" the scheme to fit in personnel doesn't magically make a defense top 5? Okay. :)
 
going from a blitz heavy man oriented scheme to a tampa 2 is not tweaking, and doing it because you lost several starters due to injury and are playing practice roster calibre guys is nowhere near the same thing as completely switching your defence because you watched some film of the superbowl.
 
Nice write up here on some of the rookies in particular, and new players in general:

1. It’s too bad the Steelers didn’t play their starting O-line more than two series so we could get an even better read on Washington’s defensive front. Nonetheless, NT Barry Cofield is a major upgrade over last year. On his first play, he got moved back a little bit, though part of that came from DE Stephen Bowen bumping into him. Still, both occupied their men and the linebackers flew to the ball. Rocky McIntosh was in position to make a good stop, but allowed Rashard Mendenhall to turn the corner. London Fletcher’s speed ended the play. It was a four-yard gain, but had the line allowed Fletcher to be blocked, it would have been much worse.

2. It’s amazing how fast Fletcher can still close. Did it on that play as well as on a pass play over the middle. But he also can play so fast because he always seems to know what's coming. Ah, but there was one time (on the third and 1 stop by Cofield and Ryan Kerrigan) that Fletcher wasn't ready. When the ball was snapped, Rocky McIntosh had to push Fletcher, who was shouting instructions and looking left, over to the right. By the way, it appears McIntosh had a better idea of where to be. That's really hard to know without knowing his assignments, but it was easy to tell last year that this wasn't the case.

3. Cofield did do fine vs. starting center Maurkice Pouncey. On the third play of the game, Cofield’s quick, strong hands (a big slap of the right hand) got him free to the right, resulting in a pressure. Cofield got free later in the game with the same move. Once more: for a guy who is 6-foot-4, he is able to stay low and gain leverage. It makes his hands even better when he can combine them with some pop from the lower body.

4. That’s one thing I noticed; more one-on-one battles being won up front. DE Adam Carriker beat the right guard on the fourth play for a little pressure. Some of the other one-on-one victories occurred in the second quarter vs. the backups so I’m not about to go crazy over this aspect (Cofield and Bowen both won some). But it bears watching over the next couple weeks. It would represent a major change from last season. Does this mean the D-line is suddenly full of playmakers? No. But the more they beat one-on-ones, the more others must help – and the longer the 'backers can stay clean.

5. Not sure what to make of Chris Horton’s night. He was late coming over on the deep incompletion (to a wide open target). But on the play, Kevin Barnes was beaten in the slot on the same side and that seemed to hold up Horton. Regardless, Josh Wilson played it all the way as if he was expecting help. Horton also missed a tackle on Isaac Redman at the line; he scored on the play.

6. Notice how well the Steeler receivers block? Two of them threw crucial blocks on Redman’s run; Wilson could not get free of Antonio Brown on the outside. Will this be an issue for Wilson? We’ll see. It’s not about needing to play more physical – never been an issue with him; it’s likely more about his size (listed at 5-foot-9, but he’s also 192 pounds). He also missed a tackle on a smoke route, got beat off the line in press coverage because he lunged when trying to jam the wideout and was called for interference on another pass. But Wilson likes to play press coverage, and did a lot last year in Baltimore, so the play Friday was more of an aberration. Still, he’ll be up and down. This was not a great debut.

7. Rookie Ryan Kerrigan learned a few lessons Friday. Let’s start with a couple positives. First, he made a nice read on the third-and-1 stop, resulting in him moving over a half step to his right just before the snap. That enabled him to get inside the tight end and down the line for the stop. (On the same play, Cofield whipped past Pouncey). (Incidentally, in the second quarter Kerrigan moved a half-step inside on another play; this time the tackle blocked him and drove him too far inside).


Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/08/tale-tape-redskins-defense#ixzz1V1YXAtlz
 
Horton and McIntosh missed key tackles and overran plays. I would not be surprised to see Keyaron Fox replace McIntosh at ILB next to Fletcher in 2011. Horton really hasn't played well since his rookie season. He has been injured at times since then and when he has been on the field he has missed a lot of plays.
 
Kerrigan overan a few plays as well. With his lack of experience, that is expected. If he was in position, a couple of the Steelers longer runs would not have happened. He also made a couple good plays. I think it is going to be interesting watching him progress.

I know it was just one pre-season game, but I am suddenly worried about our DBs. A couple of accurate throws and the score would have been different.
 
Kerrigan overan a few plays as well. With his lack of experience, that is expected. If he was in position, a couple of the Steelers longer runs would not have happened. He also made a couple good plays. I think it is going to be interesting watching him progress.

I know it was just one pre-season game, but I am suddenly worried about our DBs. A couple of accurate throws and the score would have been different.

The thing about Kerrigan is that he is switching to a new position and because of the injury only had a week to practice at it while learning a new defense on top of everything else. I'm pretty pleased with how he did, but he does have a steep learning curve.
 
Just curious Lanky, who is giving Haynesworth a free pass? He played a part in the horrible defense. I mean the fat **** laid on the ground waiting for the play to end against the Eagles! But he was only part of the bigger problem! A terrible defensive coordinator who has no idea how to scheme a defense around the players he has.

Also, the year before under Blache saw dramatic improvement in the defensive line play with Albert on board. He was still a malcontent in Blache's system, but he was effective at making those around him better, i.e Carter and Orakpo in double digit sacks.

At least 6 of Orakpo sacks came when Fatty was out of the lineup
 
going from a blitz heavy man oriented scheme to a tampa 2 is not tweaking, and doing it because you lost several starters due to injury and are playing practice roster calibre guys is nowhere near the same thing as completely switching your defence because you watched some film of the superbowl.

Sigh...you missed the point entirely.
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