What should they do with RG3

[fansince62]

Knowing that the football people didn't care for RG3, do you think it was prudent to pick up his option?

I can think of a use case. suppose the football people were also divided on the upside for Cousins and McCoy. remember....the extension happened in May.

 

[Ax]

One doesn't pick up an option on a guy you don't have faith in.

That's the disconnect.

Now, give me a plausible scenario where there weren't two camps inside the organization, and the owner's side won...well, only to lose.

I trust that people who do this for a living, considered the possibility that they might have to pay the option for someone who wasn't playing, due to injury. My guess is they factored in all the possibilities, and then made the move. They are not surprised by this.

And I, or Jesus Christ himself, will NEVER convince you that Dan Snyder is anything, but worthy of a slow, tortuous death. So, playing "what if's" with you on that front is a total waste of time.

 

[Ax]

I'm sure Gruden promised the owner RG3 would start the season...turns out it was gonna only be for a series or two.

Based solely on what you THOUGHT you heard. Which, you didn't.

 

[stevenaa]

Mcl saw what so many fans continue to cling onto. 2012 ROY He stated you don't give up on that kind of talent easily. The extension was needed to give it one more chance. All the preseason it's been stated RG is the starter to keep from bruising his fragile psyche. Even being the professed starter and given the lions share if the work, he couldn't win the job. I don't care what the blather is about who wanted him and who didn't. He failed to win the job.

 

[Goaldeje]

I don't think it's hard to imagine at all. I'm not sure I am willing to call it likely, but based on past events, it does not strain my credulity at all to imagine that is what happened. But I have no idea at all if that is what happened. And likely I never will.

I think that's why people get frustrated, because you present something as a fact. In reality, it is a more-than viable option, but we really have no way of knowing what exactly happened. Therefore, it is an opinion, not a fact.

 

[Miles Monroe]

Now I don't take what Gruden says as written in stone, but my guess is Robert continues to practice as any QB on the roster would. As he said, we needed 3 QB's last season. It's not out of the scope that he displaces Colt as the #2 QB at some point. In other words, he has a season to develop behind the scenes. I behind Cousins 100%, but I don't see Robert going anywhere this season.

 

[MikeSr619]

I can't even imagine the media storm that comes out if he becomes the 2 and then Cousins starts to falter. The mediots will go crazy on that!!

 

[micks113]

Yes, because he's eliminating the alienating of 52 players on his roster. He's taking doubt and throwing it out the window. Let's say he waits... and Griffin passes the concussion protocol (something that we easily expect). He then names Cousins the starter. The questions of "well why did you wait til Griffin passed if you truly believe in Kirk" will start flooding in. McCloughan/Gruden just took that and threw it out the window. Kirk is the starter, he's gonna be the starter in 4 days, and the sooner the media and the team understands that, the better.

Correct ST. That's what its all about. Gruden earned kudos with the team for his handling of Griffin and anointing Kirk with a show of support. He didn't say start game 1. He said its his team for 2015. What the players have been waiting for, the coach to take the lead in this.

 

[stevenaa]

Then, a very talented NFL talent evaluator committed to an option putting the owner on the hook for millions of dollars.

Why is it so hard to believe that the Danny wanted to keep RG3 and the football folks didn't. That Dan was okay with picking up the option?

I know. It would be contrary to the team's narrative that the Dan isn't calling the shots.

Well, duh.

Why is it hard to believe a very talented NFL talent evaluator wanted to give it every possible chance to turn around? RG was a huge freaking investment. I have no problems with the owner insisting they exhaust every possible avenue, if that's what happened. You all act like the owner of the team should sit back and be a spectator in his billion dollar business. No owner does that. That doesn't mean he's calling the shots or determining who is starting. Like any business man, you can bet he's telling his managers to do everything they can to try and salvage the investment. It didn't work out, the Football guys have decided that, and they're moving on. The extension is only relevant if he's injured and they have to pay out. They weren't getting anything for him last year, so there isn't any real loss of received trade value. There is no single point of blame here. There's crap loads to spread around to all the participants. There's no evidence at all that DAN is playing GM and Coach, determining who starts. Just like the media, you are trying to create a narrative that fits your preconceived notions.

 

[stevenaa]

Now I don't take what Gruden says as written in stone, but my guess is Robert continues to practice as any QB on the roster would. As he said, we needed 3 QB's last season. It's not out of the scope that he displaces Colt as the #2 QB at some point. In other words, he has a season to develop behind the scenes. I behind Cousins 100%, but I don't see Robert going anywhere this season.

I don't know. The injury risk just seems too great to let him play since he hasn't taken the bull by the horns, so to speak. Only way I would see him staying is if they still think he has a chance to figure it out, justifying the risk. I think that ship has sailed. But they are the Washington Redskins, so I won't be surprised by anything that happens.

 

[fansince62]

Why is it hard to believe a very talented NFL talent evaluator wanted to give it every possible chance to turn around? RG was a huge freaking investment. I have no problems with the owner insisting they exhaust every possible avenue, if that's what happened. You all act like the owner of the team should sit back and be a spectator in his billion dollar business. No owner does that. That doesn't mean he's calling the shots or determining who is starting. Like any business man, you can bet he's telling his managers to do everything they can to try and salvage the investment. It didn't work out, the Football guys have decided that, and they're moving on. The extension is only relevant if he's injured and they have to pay out. They weren't getting anything for him last year, so there isn't any real loss of received trade value. There is no single point of blame here. There's crap loads to spread around to all the participants. There's no evidence at all that DAN is playing GM and Coach, determining who starts. Just like the media, you are trying to create a narrative that fits your preconceived notions.

It's not over yet. It may be over here. Joey T's analysis this morning was very interesting. Whittling down to essentials: Theismann argued that the book on Griffin is anything but closed. He conceded all the short-comings everyone else has noted. he then went on to argue, and I agree, that the combination of Griffin's injuries, rush back to play after 2012, system changes and a bunch of other things severely undercut any chance of developing in a methodical, evolutionary way. I absolutely agree with this looking at the facts of his time here. To ballpark it, Theismann estimated all these events placing Griffin 1.5 years behind where he ought to be in his development. He went on to argue that given the time there is every probability griffin will develop into a fine QB. that time obviously won't happen here. what I liked about the analysis was how Theismann opened the aperture and interleaved all the influencing factors in order to adopt a more nuanced view on what led to this outcome.

 

[Boone]

The problem is, Joe Theismann has not been in practice, privy to the coaching going on, or Griffin's ability to respond to that coaching. Watching from afar and being in the middle of what's going on are two different things. If anyone on this coaching staff (or the prior one) made the assessment that Griffin was making progress and capable of much more, we wouldn't be where we are. He hasn't shown progress, he has unravelled and taken steps back. While I don't agree with the recent polling indicating Griffin is one of the worst QBs in the league, it does indicate that most coaches are seeing the same lack of progress. I also don't think one can ignore that Gruden is the head coach and his entire career depends on him winning. He isn't going to get 3-4 years to 'develop' Griffin, nor can he risk trying if he doesn't really believe from his close personal assessment that Griffin can get where he needs to be. It's very easy for someone like Theismann who has no stake in the game to argue for more patience, but the truth is that there's little room for patience in the modern NFL. Griffin's had 3 years and, mitigating circumstances notwithstanding, that is a significant stretch of time.


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[Primus Porcus]

It's not over yet. It may be over here. Joey T's analysis this morning was very interesting. Whittling down to essentials: Theismann argued that the book on Griffin is anything but closed. He conceded all the short-comings everyone else has noted. he then went on to argue, and I agree, that the combination of Griffin's injuries, rush back to play after 2012, system changes and a bunch of other things severely undercut any chance of developing in a methodical, evolutionary way. I absolutely agree with this looking at the facts of his time here. To ballpark it, Theismann estimated all these events placing Griffin 1.5 years behind where he ought to be in his development. He went on to argue that given the time there is every probability griffin will develop into a fine QB. that time obviously won't happen here. what I liked about the analysis was how Theismann opened the aperture and interleaved all the influencing factors in order to adopt a more nuanced view on what led to this outcome.

Lol Oh that looks familiar

let's put aside that many pundits claim pre-season games have limited utility. how much gametime is needed? I believe others have been asking the same question. Don't forget, keep your starting QB in there...you have to keep the other starters. Change the line-up enough and you are not learning under conditions that reflect real games.

Every player is different. Griffin, starting from scratch essentially learning a pro-style offense, was set back even further with the offense we used it 2012. I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth here, it was one of the most amazing things I've ever experienced as a Redskins fan, and I hold that near and dear to my heart. That being said, the way he's been handled by an NFL organization has not been the best and imho has potentially killed his chances of ever being a true star in the NFL.

Looking at his history, his whole 1st offseason and regular season, we ran a read option base with some other things mixed in, but the emphasis on developing into a pocket QB was not there.

Year 2 he was hurt, coming back after the ACL so the offseason of field practice time, as well as live fire reps in the preseason was shot. Completely lost.

Year 3 he breaks his ankle week 2.


How much actual time has he had to learn these things in physical game situations? He's a 4 year QB who has had 30+ starts but clearly has not mastered the art during the regular seasons that he's been in. If he has any hope of doing anything different here, he's going to have to prove it in the games. He's practiced well, we've heard the right things in camp, but it's not translating to game speed.

How much game time is needed? Until he gets it or moves on. As long as he's the starter, I think he needs more game time.

 

[Om]

Boone has it right. There are a whole lot of experts commenting on Robert's progress as an NFL quarterback, and they all have one thing in common; they haven't been with him in the classroom and on the practice field every single day and don't have the slightest idea what two coaching staffs have tried to teach/instill in him, day in and day out, for three years.

Hey, MAYBE Robert's apparent lack of tangible progress in the passing game is all their fault. And definitely, the injuries have cost him practice time for a good part of his short career here. But I think it's disingenuous for so many people who simply don't have the data the people actually working with the man every day operate with, to sound off as if they not only know, but know better.

 

[riggins44]

I am a fan of the Washington Redskins. I support whoever wears the burgundy and gold. I am glad we have a starter and time to move on.

I think Griffin is a good guy. In the end, regardless NFL or work force, it is all about production. Gruden was hired to supposedly fix Griffin. In the end you have to worry about what you can control. That is yourself. Griffin is responsible for Griffin. It's easy to complain and place blame elsewhere. We will see what kind of person he really is. This should make him work even harder to get back as the #1 guy when chance comes.

PS... he should stay away from social media

 

[stevenaa]

Joey T maybe right or maybe wrong. Doesn't matter because we are out of time due to the option dollars. Had he made significant
progress, as Gruden has said he needed too all along, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I just can't see any upside to keeping
him around.

 

[stevenaa]

Okay, then who's responsible for that 'no brainer' decision to do the option? Because, that guy, should be accountable for a huge **** up. That decision was made in May. The decision that he was going to be the starter was announced before training camp. They invested in a qb coach. The owner was still throwing resources at the guy, because somebody was telling him good stuff about RG3. Scott was saying good stuff about RG3...

Gruden knew what he had in May.

Look, it's okay they ****ed up again...that's what we expect these days, but when we get the polyanna crap babble that 'everyone was on the same page', well that's just crap.

And, now, it looks like last year all over again. With RG3 on the bench. With the fans seeing him on the bench when the team loses a couple in a row.

On the other hand, if we start out 5-1, everyone will take credit for brilliant decisions.

Personally, I'm hoping for the playoffs regardless of who is playing. I'm tired of the off field drama that continues to make it difficult to enjoy this team.

I was a huge RG3 supporter, but I've moved on. I want my team to win.

It's simple really. If he came in and through camp and preseason was improving and looking like he was getting over the hump and would be the guy we hoped, not necessarily 2012 RG, but a starting QB, then we'd continue on as planned when he was drafted. He didn't so we are where we are. The 16 mil it's only a problem if he's out next year due to injury. It was a calculated risk that wasn't made in a vacuum. Even if he made the leap at the end of the year last year and came in the unencumbered starter and performed well, that risks still there. The odds of a serious enough injury during preseason happening aren't that high. It was a reasonable risk given the investment and upside should he turn the corner. Now we're out of time. He'd never have gotten deep into the regular season if he didn't establish himself early. The risk would escalate with every regular season games.

 

[micks113]

It's not over yet. It may be over here. Joey T's analysis this morning was very interesting. Whittling down to essentials: Theismann argued that the book on Griffin is anything but closed. He conceded all the short-comings everyone else has noted. he then went on to argue, and I agree, that the combination of Griffin's injuries, rush back to play after 2012, system changes and a bunch of other things severely undercut any chance of developing in a methodical, evolutionary way. I absolutely agree with this looking at the facts of his time here. To ballpark it, Theismann estimated all these events placing Griffin 1.5 years behind where he ought to be in his development. He went on to argue that given the time there is every probability griffin will develop into a fine QB. that time obviously won't happen here. what I liked about the analysis was how Theismann opened the aperture and interleaved all the influencing factors in order to adopt a more nuanced view on what led to this outcome.

I didn't read or see or hear anything about what Joe said. But your remarks omitted the injury bust factor. And who knows how an injury can end a QB's career better than Joe? The way I see it, forget Roberts poor performance, forget his technical deficiencies, forget his big mouth, forget his weaknesses. What matters is that he is injury prone and won't survive in this league, notwithstanding his on the field play. He is too fragile and shows the flop leg. I've never seen anyone with more flop leg than Griffin. If he is lucky enough to get picked up by another team, he'll be their injury problem. He was doomed after his last game of 2012 with the injury, not surpised as too the outcome.

 

[fansince62]

The problem is, Joe Theismann has not been in practice, privy to the coaching going on, or Griffin's ability to respond to that coaching. Watching from afar and being in the middle of what's going on are two different things. If anyone on this coaching staff (or the prior one) made the assessment that Griffin was making progress and capable of much more, we wouldn't be where we are. He hasn't shown progress, he has unravelled and taken steps back. While I don't agree with the recent polling indicating Griffin is one of the worst QBs in the league, it does indicate that most coaches are seeing the same lack of progress. I also don't think one can ignore that Gruden is the head coach and his entire career depends on him winning. He isn't going to get 3-4 years to 'develop' Griffin, nor can he risk trying if he doesn't really believe from his close personal assessment that Griffin can get where he needs to be. It's very easy for someone like Theismann who has no stake in the game to argue for more patience, but the truth is that there's little room for patience in the modern NFL. Griffin's had 3 years and, mitigating circumstances notwithstanding, that is a significant stretch of time.


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wellllll....I saw shows on COMCAST where he was at practice.......he broadcasts the games! and nothing he said about the history is off. the point is that the there was no disciplined process on this screwed up team. I absolutely accept that notion 1000%. if one looks at the events over 4 years it is inescapable that there was no elongated period of time in which he was either not recovering from injury or adapting to team change. I have no issue whatsoever in accepting that griffin did not show the progress he should have. per previous, there is also no doubt in my mind that this stems from many factors - among which the instability and idiocy of this team rank high. part griffin...part redskins....this team did not have a plan for developing this player. we'll get to jay the prevaricator another time.

 

[fansince62]

I didn't read or see or hear anything about what Joe said. But your remarks omitted the injury bust factor. And who knows how an injury can end a QB's career better than Joe? The way I see it, forget Roberts poor performance, forget his technical deficiencies, forget his big mouth, forget his weaknesses. What matters is that he is injury prone and won't survive in this league, notwithstanding his on the field play. He is too fragile and shows the flop leg. I've never seen anyone with more flop leg than Griffin. If he is lucky enough to get picked up by another team, he'll be their injury problem. He was doomed after his last game of 2012 with the injury, not surpised as too the outcome.

you need to reread my posts. I have consistently acknowledged the lack of progress and also noted injuries - we all know, for example, that it was on griffin coming back too early in 2013 with no off-season practice leading to predictable results - and Shanahans who wouldn't sit him until he was ready. yea...got it. someone else's injury problem. check. I don't really care about that. the redskins made a huge investment. they drafted a player whose history certainly indicated a need for development. throughout the course of his time here - that was completely eff'd up. I detest dishonesty wherever it exists (not directed at you - but what is going on in the media and some other quarters). girffin's development was hosed up......injuries, his decisions and a screwed up team all contributed - no QB coach! this part of the history is not being owned up to.....by the team, the media, or a percentage of the fanbase.