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WEx: Sources: Gruden atop Snyder's wish

Washington Taylor beat Panthers

servumtuum

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I found an interesting analysis of the idea of Russ Grimm coming to the Redskins at HogHaven. I was written by KevinE and includes talks with David Elfin of the Washington Times, Rich Tandler of Real Redskins, Mark Newgent of the Examiner, and Ben Folson of the Curly R on the possibility and feasibility of such a move.

Here's the article link:http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/11/11/1115652/redskins-coach-watch-russ-grimm
 

Neophyte

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If it were me, I think I would be taking a hard look at Mike Zimmer in Cincinnati. He has done wonders with the Cincy defense the last two years. He favors the 4-3 which we have the personnel for now and is very aggressive in his calls. By all reports he is something of a disciplinarian and old school coach who is very ready for a Head Coaching stint.

Just a thought though as I like what I am hearing about the guy.
 

The Burgundy Ghost

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If it were me, I think I would be taking a hard look at Mike Zimmer in Cincinnati. He has done wonders with the Cincy defense the last two years. He favors the 4-3 which we have the personnel for now and is very aggressive in his calls. By all reports he is something of a disciplinarian and old school coach who is very ready for a Head Coaching stint.

Just a thought though as I like what I am hearing about the guy.
I watched Zimmer on Hard Knocks, seems to have a good repoire with his players....seems well respected.

I wonder who the OC would be if the Skins brought in a defensive based HC?
 

Elephant

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Neo, I don't know enough about Zimmer to question that suggestion. I would however pose this question to you. Given Snyder's propensity to hire offensive minded coaches because we all know Offense Sells, do you think he would be open-minded enough to hire a defensive guy after swallowing his pride enough to dump Vinny at the end of the season?
 

Lanky Livingston

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I like the Zimmer suggestion, however how much of that defense's success is because of Marvin Lewis? You gotta think some of it is.
 

The Burgundy Ghost

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At this point I wouldn't mind seeing a very good OC or DC take the reigns.

One of the few things I really liked with the Zorn hiring was that it wasn't a Snyder move in that he made a big splash. And it was with a guy that wanted to make his own mark in the NFL, not a guy who has already won and here for the paycheck.

The only problem is that Zorn as we know is very inexperienced and of the few coaches of his own that he brought in, none of them had much experience.

If the Skins go with a OC/DC route like a Zimmer, Grimm, Ryan (rob). Then I would hope the GM would have that coach bring in good assistant coaches who can be legitimate OCs/DCs in their own right.
 

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Neo, I don't know enough about Zimmer to question that suggestion. I would however pose this question to you. Given Snyder's propensity to hire offensive minded coaches because we all know Offense Sells, do you think he would be open-minded enough to hire a defensive guy after swallowing his pride enough to dump Vinny at the end of the season?
I don't if he would or not but what I do know is that what we are doing isn't working. Spurrier, Gibbs and Zorn were all offensive coaches and this team hasn't cut it under them. Never really turned the corner. Sure, there were three playoff games and a playoff win but that isn't considered success in Washington.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. Go for something you have tired and get out of the insanity fast lane.

I like the Zimmer suggestion, however how much of that defense's success is because of Marvin Lewis? You gotta think some of it is.
Some, sure. Just as any Head Coach can be credited with some of the success for his whole club. However, Lewis had been there for a while and the Defense had been the issue. It wasn't till Zimmer showed up that the Defense started carrying its own weight (12th in the league last year and 11th so far this year). This year they are beating Washington in Sacks by one with their top pass rusher out for the year and more than twice the INTs of the Skins.

The Bengal players seem to credit Zimm for most of that.

And notice, I was not advocating that we hire him, just that the team take a long hard look at him. Guy like that would set a good tone for our B&G clad heroes, which might be even more important than having better talent.
 

Sarge

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Sad that, at this point in the season, we're looking at the possibility that NO big name coach wants to come here. All because of the owner
 

riggins44

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My guess is Grimm has talked with fellow teammates and others around the league, so my guess is he would request a good GM with some say in personnel.

If Vinny stays...Snyder will have to find someone desperate for HC position.
 

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Another name I'd put in for consideration is Leslie Frazier, the DC for Minnesota.
 

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I still think once the December Swoon hits Dallas, Jerruh will be all over Mike Shanahan like tight shorts on Daisy Duke. We could very well be looking at ANOTHER first time Head Coach.
 

China

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I still think once the December Swoon hits Dallas, Jerruh will be all over Mike Shanahan like tight shorts on Daisy Duke. We could very well be looking at ANOTHER first time Head Coach.

It has been reported that the Bills are talking with Shanahan. I have nothing against another first time head coach, as long as there is a strong front office and support system in place. If that doesn't happen first, it'll be disaster for whoever takes over unless they have an extremely strong and forceful presence. Finding someone like that would be a longshot IMO.
 

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Agreed China. In fact, I prefer a first time Head Coach, truth be told. I just don't want to go as deep in the weeds as we went for Zorn to get him. Gibbs was a first time HC and that worked out great.

All the guys who are names in the game at the moment have titles. I want hungry. I want a guy itching to leave his mark and prove himself.
 

Sarge

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Agreed China. In fact, I prefer a first time Head Coach, truth be told. I just don't want to go as deep in the weeds as we went for Zorn to get him. Gibbs was a first time HC and that worked out great.

All the guys who are names in the game at the moment have titles. I want hungry. I want a guy itching to leave his mark and prove himself.
If we had a normal NFL front office here, I'd agree. Unfortunately, that's not the case and I think we're gonna need someone with some cred in order to stand up to the danny/vinny nitwittery. Notice I put them here because I think that both will be here next year, unfortunately.
 

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I found an interesting analysis of the idea of Russ Grimm coming to the Redskins at HogHaven. I was written by KevinE and includes talks with David Elfin of the Washington Times, Rich Tandler of Real Redskins, Mark Newgent of the Examiner, and Ben Folson of the Curly R on the possibility and feasibility of such a move.

Here's the article link:http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/11/11/1115652/redskins-coach-watch-russ-grimm
I thought the following were the two most interesting comments in that article:
Ben Folsom (The Curly R) said:
So in all this why did Russ Grimm's phone never ring: simple. Dan Snyder knows Russ Grimm is eventually a loser for him. Russ is a sympathetic character for Redskins fans. No matter what happens, Dan will get the blame for failing and Russ will get credit for winning. Then one day when Dan has to fire Russ, then my friend Dan finds true bottom in the hearts of Redskins fans.

Russ will never coach for this team while Dan owns it, neither will any of Joe Gibbs' proteges, anyone that represents true Redskins football.
I think this is a very plausible scenario and one that I hadn't, quite frankly, thought about. The problem is, Grimm's link to the glory days is also one of his strongest selling points. If Snyder really would avoid him for that reason, he's an even dumber and smaller person than I thought.

I'd expect that Grimm will get most of the credit if he manages to turn the team around. Furthermore, after seeing how quickly a lot of the fans turned on Joe Gibbs, I doubt they'd neglect to blame Grimm too if it was warranted, perhaps even if it wasn't. But then that would hold true no matter who Snyder hires, assuming he actually cedes control to a real GM anyway.

In short, hiring a GM and stepping back from the process is Snyder's easiest and best way to absolve himself of responsibility for bad day-to-day team management decisions. But then I'm preaching to the choir on that point. :)

Rich Tandler (Real Redskins) said:
When Norv was fired, there was no discussion of him becoming even the interim coach, much less the head coach. Evidently, he took much better to Cowher than he did to Norval. I have to wonder, though, why Rooney did not hire him when Cowher retired. It was a done deal and he pulled it back at the last minute. Certainly he
hit a home run with Tomlin but, still, I wonder why he didn't pull the trigger on Grimm.

Also, I wonder why Grimm isn't a full-fledged coordinator in his 18th year of coaching. He's had a better shot at it than Zorn in that he's been in the NFL the whole time while Zorn spent time at Utah State and Boise State.
I've wondered about this more than a few times myself. The only possible answer I could come up with (other than the obvious, i.e. poor interviews, not HC material, etc.) was that perhaps his ambition to be a head coach didn't set in until later in his career. After that amount of time passes, one begins to be seen in a certain light by management and getting a promotion at that point often means accepting a position elsewhere.
 

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Neo, I don't know enough about Zimmer to question that suggestion. I would however pose this question to you. Given Snyder's propensity to hire offensive minded coaches because we all know Offense Sells, do you think he would be open-minded enough to hire a defensive guy after swallowing his pride enough to dump Vinny at the end of the season?
This is one thing I think Snyder is probably on the right track about, though as you say, perhaps not for the right reasons. I think offensive coaches are preferable to defensive ones because the NFL is a scoring league. The rules are mostly tilted to produce big offensive performances, especially in the passing game.

Therefore, teams like Buddy Ryan used to put together probably wouldn't win more than six or seven games in today's NFL. They'd be penalized too much for things like roughing the passer and P.I. which would in-turn remove what made those teams successful , i.e. forcing turnovers and scoring defensive TDs.

Another concern is the supply/demand issue. In general, it's not too difficult to find a decent to very good DC as there almost always seems to be a bunch of them around. However, finding good offensive minds that know how to call a game, develop game plans, get the concepts across to the QB and other offensive players and then turn all of that into points on the scoreboard is much harder.

Just my .02
 

riggins44

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My guess is Jerry Gray will be Snyder's safety valve. I know Gray wants to be a HC and chances are he would allow Cerrato to hang around. Don't like the idea of Cerrato hanging around, but could happen.

As we've said before the best thing Snyder could do is a hire a strong GM and let him hire the HC. Problem with this idea is Snyder wants to do the hiring.
 

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Agreed China. In fact, I prefer a first time Head Coach, truth be told. I just don't want to go as deep in the weeds as we went for Zorn to get him. Gibbs was a first time HC and that worked out great.

All the guys who are names in the game at the moment have titles. I want hungry. I want a guy itching to leave his mark and prove himself.
I am of the same opinion.

I would like to see a knowledgeable and authoritative GM bring in a HC of his choice (preferably young, hungry, and inventive) who then brings coaches that he prefers to work with. They would be given a few years to get their program in order, and they would be here for the long haul.
 

Boone

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Don't put it past Snyder and Cerrato to keep Zorn. I could see them doing it just out of pure stubbornness.
 

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