we don't need a saviour yet

[Lanky Livingston]

I kinda liked Ramsey

I was waiting for someone to say that.

 

[Henry]

Honestly, I think either Ramsey or Campbell could have survived as capable, if not spectacular, starters if we'd had any sort of competence/continuity in the front office when they were here. I blame our terrible roster/coaching turnover on their failure here more than anything.

However, I concede that neither had the potential Griffin has.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I agree about Campbell, sort of. He's shown in Oakland that he can be a capable starting QB. However if we're being honest, JC17 left a LOT of yardage & points on the field by his lonesome; overthrown deep balls, sailing his deep outs, etc. He could have been capable (a pretty good fit for the Shanahan system IMO), but at the same time I'm sick of capable.

 

[Henry]

Understood. Just sayin'.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

So just for the record, Ryman.....all that table pounding about the "massive" overpaymentm and clear impatient mistake that the Redskins made by putting themselves in position to draft RGIII....you set sail on that campaign with really reading up on and watching film on the guy?

nope, Boone has been a proponent of RG3 for a LOOOONG TIME, well before we even thought of this deal,

I made a thread a while back about why I wouldnt draft Rg3 early after watching a crapton of film and reading damn near everything I could find on him and other Balck Qb's, the reason I am so rarely wrong about football stuff is that I can get almost ocd about it. Boone and I got into it pretty hard, especially on the racial end of things because I had a pretty firm opinion based on numbers and although it wasnt really challenged adequately with stats or facts and was more emotional than anything, Boone made some points that bore investigating, so I did look even deeper into some of Boones points about his character and his work ethic. the thing is, precedent is still very strongly against this move, history especially recently, shows that Qbs from that conference are overrated and that alone gives me pause, I will cheer for the kid no matter what, but the move itself just smacks of desperation.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

We shouldn't discuss race in this forum, but any football argument based on it should be summarily dismissed as irrelevant.

 

[Henry]

Boone and I got into it pretty hard, especially on the racial end of things because I had a pretty firm opinion based on numbers and although it wasnt really challenged adequately with stats or facts and was more emotional than anything,

Actually some pretty hard stats were presented and you just kinda laughed them off, or suggested that all the players that didn't support your claim were overrated, which could be considered more emotional than anything.

It has been suggested that since you are from Canada it's ok for you to bring this up ... repeatedly. I would say considering the amount of times Americans have been accused of showing a decided lack of respect for the cultures of other nations, it would be great for you to perhaps lead by example and respect our culture, and stop belittling what is considered pretty incendiary subject matter south of the border.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[Neophyte]

nope, Boone has been a proponent of RG3 for a LOOOONG TIME, well before we even thought of this deal,

I made a thread a while back about why I wouldnt draft Rg3 early after watching a crapton of film and reading damn near everything I could find on him and other Balck Qb's, the reason I am so rarely wrong about football stuff is that I can get almost ocd about it. Boone and I got into it pretty hard, especially on the racial end of things because I had a pretty firm opinion based on numbers and although it wasnt really challenged adequately with stats or facts and was more emotional than anything, Boone made some points that bore investigating, so I did look even deeper into some of Boones points about his character and his work ethic. the thing is, precedent is still very strongly against this move, history especially recently, shows that Qbs from that conference are overrated and that alone gives me pause, I will cheer for the kid no matter what, but the move itself just smacks of desperation.

At some point you have to throw all that out the window and look at this kid on his own merits though. He isn't Mike Vick or Randall Cunningham or Doug Williams or Warren Moon. He is Robert Griffin III with his own set of skills, his own intelligence and his own character.

Yeah, he went to Baylor and played in the Big 12. But he isn't Chris Sims or Chase Daniel or Tim Couch. He is the Heisman Trophy winner and a 4 year starter who at times put his team on his back and took over games.

He has all the qualities you would want in a QB and all the quantifiable skills anyone could ask for. You say your arguments about his possible success was never answered with stats or facts. I say your history doesn't include a player of Griffin's caliber.

Every single guy drafted or signed in a given year is a gamble. Every one. At some point you have to have faith and you can't win if you don't play.

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Actually some pretty hard stats were presented and you just kinda laughed them off, or suggested that all the players that didn't support your claim were overrated, which could be considered more emotional than anything.

It has been suggested that since you are from Canada it's ok for you to bring this up ... repeatedly. I would say considering the amount of times Americans have been accused of showing a decided lack of respect for the cultures of other nations, it would be great for you to perhaps lead by example and respect our culture, and stop belittling what is considered pretty incendiary subject matter south of the border.

But maybe that's just me.

actually no hard stats were brought up , just a lot of opinions, some people tried to say it was based strictly on numbers, but the number of african american QB's has drastically increased in the past 20 years. I actually refuted several of the "examples" of supposedly really good black qbs like Doug williams, Mrcapp, and Randall cunningham by showing their actual stats not just the impressions of their stats, Guys like Mcnair and Vick who were decent but not franchise type qbs as well. Thats not my feelings, thats factual based on stats. I also showed the arguments against my assertions with newton and Moon because its true that there have been so far Two QB's who really go against the stats in those two men one of whom happens to be my favourite player ever. the argument against me was that somehow Race is irrelevant which is a nice thought yet when I asked how exactly it was irrelevant nobody could really answer the question, I believe I also asked about white guys playing corner and running back so it cuts two ways lol. I don't know the specifics of why, perhaps its a massive coincidence? Dont know, dont care. I just find it to be yet one more thing that should be weighed, along with conference played in, stats put up etc etc, I would never base my judgement solely on any one thing let alone race ffs.

as for sensitivity about Racial Issues, I have avoided talking about it overmuch except when directly confronted about it as I know some people are extremely sensitive about it, perhaps being Metis and from Canada means I see it in less inflammatory terms than you do. I know it is a hot button for Boone and out of respect I generally avoid talking about it for that reason alone, but you asked, and I answered.

Neo, I agree, if anything this kid has a shot based on his intangibles alone, I am just not bullish because of the preponderance of factors weighing against him, this doesnt mean I hope he bombs, quite the opposite, I will be cheering for him if he is wearing our colours.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Dude, stop bringing up race like its relevant. Its not. End of story.

 

[Chris]

the reason I am so rarely wrong about football stuff is ...

Now ain't that rich.

 

[Bulldog]

Just like the Redskins - real geniuses
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

 

[Rymanofthenorth]

Now ain't that rich.

feel free to find an instance where I was incorrect. its pretty rare.

Lanky, we can discuss this in the other forum, Boone has made it clear that he would prefer not to argue it in this one, I merely made my stance on it clear.