Things are looking up for Redskins Nation

[tshile]

To add to the list, consider how this situation is different.

Norv was fired because Snyder was a young owner and thought the fans 'deserved better' than winning the division and flaming out in the playoffs (oh how hilarious that is in hindsight)

Marty was fired because Snyder couldn't handle not having a say, and (though it's speculation and rumor, I think it's fair to add) he didn't like his little yes-man Vinny being fired.

Spurrier quit as much as he was fired, because he flat out didn't want to work. He was on the golf course the day of the draft if I recall correctly?

Gibbs resigned a year early.

Zorn was fired for complete incompetence.

Shanahan was fired for creating a toxic environment, centering around the franchise quarterback.

Shanahan wasn't fired for incompetence. As much as people hate him, he created a culture at redskins part worth cheering for for the first time in a long time. He missed on players, but he missed cheaply. He blew draft picks on players, but he got something back in return for them. We have a core group of guys that can be built around on both sides of the ball, and they're all young. We have a lot of cap space opened up, and minus our first rounder this year we have our draft picks for the foreseeable future.

There's a solid football team here. They didn't win the division last year because of a great coaching staff that got more out of players than existed, they won because of a combination of talent and coaching. The young talent is still here.

They didn't lose this year because of talent, they lost because Griffin came off a major surgery and sucked to start the season. It snowballed from there (can you really take anything away after week 11 or so? really?)

 

[Bulldog]

Shanahan wanted to play God but got disillusioned by the criticism when questions started coming from left and right.

Mike didn't win two Super Bowls here and wasn't put on a pedestal as he was in Denver.

He learned that coaching in a large East Coast media market is not the same as being in small fish bowl like Denver.

Four years with three being double digit loss seasons?

Shanny is lucky he didn't end up in NY or Philly, they would have eaten him alive.

 

[HOF44]

There's an old saying that if you have enough time and money, you can do anything.

DS sorta disproves this.

Not really, the salary cap takes your money and willingness to spend if out of the equation. If there was no cap and we were losing I'd have to agree with you.

 

[Bulldog]

Mike, the fact remains Shanahan brought Grossman to the Redskins and stubbornly decided he would go a full season with him and Beck as his quarterbacks

Every quarterback in the draft or free agency for two years was evidently not worth acquiring!

When I say play God I mean that Mike wanted all decisions to run through him but then became petulant when media or fans called out the miscues and false steps.

For a 20 year head coach he seemed to have very thin skin.

Again, he is just lucky he didn't pull this in Philly or NY because he would have been run out of town on a rail.

 

[Ax]

Norv was fired because Snyder was a young owner and thought the fans 'deserved better' than winning the division and flaming out in the playoffs (oh how hilarious that is in hindsight)

Nope.

Norv Turner was fired because he is a horrible head coach. Snyder was stuck with him because the NFL took too much time to ok the sale. By the time they did, it was too late to make the change. Snyder screwed up by giving Norval everything he wanted, which John Cooke had not, allowing him to make the playoffs. Thereby prolonging our misery.

It's cute when people use the "Norv is the only winning coach under Snyder" BS. Norv sucked. THAT'S why he was fired.

 

[Bulldog]

Norv was 49-59-1 in Washington.

He was not a winner.

For six long years before Snyder bought the team Norv and Casserly made moves like the drafting of Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook, and Andre Johnson.

The team also signed Dana Stubblefield to a $36M contract in free agency and traded #1 and #3 picks to the Bengals for Dan Wilkinson.

The big money, no return deals did not start with Snyder.

 

[Ax]

Exactly BT. Snyder's made himself an easy target. But this crap didn't begin with him.

 

[Henry]

yes...winning is the ultimate metric. so what's your plan/hypothesis for making it happen?

When Dan Snyder pays me a couple mil a season to come up with one I will. Until then, my only job is to expect wins.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Henry]

but this site isn't for them...its for us. Allen and Snyder will never log on to BGO but I do every day.

I'm not offended by it..but if we are going to base whether it stays or goes by how much ownership cares then we are going to lose every time.

I don't think its unfair to base our commentary on how sucessful the team is on the field. The team sucks. It iis currently a hopeless organization. Wins will change that, not press conferences about organizational structure or whatever.

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[Ax]

Hopelessness is a state of mind, easily controlled.

We are not, hopeless.

 

[tshile]

I don't think its unfair to base our commentary on how sucessful the team is on the field. The team sucks. It iis currently a hopeless organization. Wins will change that, not press conferences about organizational structure or whatever.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

you make me sadface

 

[Neophyte]

I'm late to the party but I'll chime in anyway.

I see a lot of concern about this being the DanVin show 2.0. I'm not so sure. Bruce worked well with the most meddlesome owner in the history of the NFL out in Oakland, putting together a team that went to the Super Bowl and being named Exec of the Year in the league once. Vinny had no creds like that.

I see a lot of guys wondering why Bruce and the scouting department is getting to skate while Shanahan goes down for everything. To me that is ridiculous. Shanahan is known the league over as a micro-management type guy. His personnel decisions have long been reported as sketchy and we have all read how he went against the suggestions of his scouts while in Denver. What reason was there to think he would treat Washington's scouting department any different? Shanahan was everyone's boss, including Allen's. I don't know about you guys but I do what my boss tells me to do. I might make suggestions, and I do, but at the end of the day when she tells me what to do I go do it. Her authority so it's her responsibility. Same with Shanahan and Allen.

And it was made clear 4 years ago who was in charge here at the White House. I don't blame Allen at all.

I have seen a lot of folks saying that Allen/Snyder should have done something to correct the direction of the franchise when they saw Mike steering off course. I would ask "how?" Seriously. How? Mike was given full control of all football operations. Dan was the only one with authority to over ride him and all he has heard since 1999 was how he was playing fantasy football with a real team and needed to let a real football guy handle it. So he went and got a "real football guy" and gave him full control. Now you guys want him to step back in? Seriously? Fickle much?

Look, I didn't like the hiring of Mike. Was never a fan. He won two Super Bowls with someone else's team and never proved he was a great talent evaluator. Yeah, he made the playoffs and had a winning record for all those years after Elway left but he did it in the god offal weak AFC West. Please. Spare me the praise of Mike.

However, as much as I hated the hire, I was happy that Dan was getting a football guy and adding a guy like Bruce in place of Vinny. I was thrilled that our fantasy football owner was stepping back and letting folks with years of experience in the NFL run the show. And I believe that is what happened too. Oh, I think Dan was consulted on the big things but I also think he was a rubber stamp for Mike on those big things and if that was the case then the last 4 years are owned by Mike...lock, stock and barrel.

I can't even blame the coordinators much. Mike came in with a vision for the Defense and told Haz what to run. That doesn't mean I like Haz but I have worked for micro-managers before and I know how bad it sucks to have to do things their way and take all the blame. Would I keep Haz? No. Do I blame him? No.

We are where Mike Shanahan has taken us. Period.

 

[fansince62]

When Dan Snyder pays me a couple mil a season to come up with one I will. Until then, my only job is to expect wins.

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got it...it's about the money.

 

[fansince62]

I don't think its unfair to base our commentary on how sucessful the team is on the field. The team sucks. It iis currently a hopeless organization. Wins will change that, not press conferences about organizational structure or whatever.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

well...that certainly makes for interesting conversation. no connection at all between winning and the other things going on!

 

[Henry]

you make me sadface

Oh dont be sad. I'm just trying to explain why I don't have a problem with Boone's banner. It was a parody of another image, and frankly the team deserves it based on their performance.

Allen staying on board as the GM and being in charge of the direction of the team is fine. Its a nice little step. But its a little step, nothing more. We'll know if it makes a difference when we start winning games. Consistently. Until then, well, I'm going reserve judgement.

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[Henry]

got it...it's about the money.

Not at all. It's about our need to put the problem in a nice little box, wrap it up, and throw it away. I don't think it's as simple as that. It would certainly help me sleep at night to just shrug off the last four years as "it was all Shanahan's fault and he's gone so now everything will be ok" but I don't think you can blame 15 years of failure on a guy who's been around for four years. It's not "Vinnie's fault." Its not "we don't have a franchise QB." Its not "Dan Snyder is too meddlesome." Those issues come and go. Suck remains.

I think the solution will not be a simple one, and I certainly don't have it. We'll know if the team does when it starts winning games.

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[Birdlives]

All I see is an owner who is now essentially saying, the GM who's been here since right before, and who supposedly hired Shanahan is now the guy who's going to right the ship.

That the guys who evaluate talent, and have been here for ten years are now going to provide us with the talent to be competitive. That these are the same guys who no one ever listens to, but managed to decide to stay on and watch train wreck after train wreck without moving on when/if the opportunity ever arose or getting frustrated enough to quit.

So now things are going to be different because the dictator of a head coach is gone.

I don't know how not to be skeptical in this situation, I seriously don't.

Until the wins come I reserve judgement with a huge dose of skepticism.

If all those who are feeling positive get to say I told you so, more's the better.

I'll gladly eat that crow with a nice glass of ale on the side.

 

[Boone]

I have seen a lot of folks saying that Allen/Snyder should have done something to correct the direction of the franchise when they saw Mike steering off course. I would ask "how?" Seriously. How? Mike was given full control of all football operations. Dan was the only one with authority to over ride him and all he has heard since 1999 was how he was playing fantasy football with a real team and needed to let a real football guy handle it. So he went and got a "real football guy" and gave him full control. Now you guys want him to step back in? Seriously? Fickle much?

I'm one of 'those guys' - and you're setting up a straw man argument Bob. Not wanting Snyder involved in day-to-day football decisions is nothing at all like saying 'oh, and I promise to stand idly by while you run the ****ing franchise into the ground'. Snyder just pulled the biggest epic 'meddle' possible - he fired his head coach with a year left on his contract (along with anyone who had anything to do with him). That, ummm, might be called meddling It's totally reasonable to expect Snyder or Bruce Allen to recognize that a head coach's actions, behavior, and ego are about to drive the franchise right over the cliff and attempt to steer things back on course. I'd have much preferred Snyder fire Shanahan's ass a year ago if the arrogant whiny SOB was so 'unhappy' than to put fans through a year of this shit.

A contract is one thing. But Snyder and Allen also have an obligation to the fanbase not to stand idly by and watch an utter disaster unfold.

 

[Neophyte]

Again, there is zero evidence that Allen could have done a thing. It was made clear that Allen worked for Shanahan back at the beginning of this, not the other way round. The buck stopped with Shanahan, at least publicly, so until someone can produce evidence to the contrary then Allen is blameless.

As for Dan, yeah, firing the coach is meddling but that is the meddling the owner is supposed to do. They have the right and obligation to fire whoever they want to fire if that person isn't getting the job done. But I don't believe in hiring good people and then telling them how to do their job. That is Dan of the Vanilla Ice Cream and none of us want that back. Not now, not ever. No, Dan was, and remains, under an obligation to hire good people and then let those people do their jobs. At least in my humble opinion.

The exception to that is your post from earlier this year when the ugly rumors started and you suggested that Dan needed to call a organization wide meeting and reset the tone at Redskins Park. That he could do. He could call the coach into his office, tell him to stop the leaks to the press and maybe stop with the bad attitude in pressers. That I would go for.

But I don't want him tinkering with football decisions. Ever.

 

[DieselPwr44]

. I'd have much preferred Snyder fire Shanahan's ass a year ago if the arrogant whiny SOB was so 'unhappy' than to put fans through a year of this shit.

A contract is one thing. But Snyder and Allen also have an obligation to the fanbase not to stand idly by and watch an utter disaster unfold.

Do you think anyone outside this organization would understand why Snyder fired Shanny shortly(say a month or so) after after winning the NFC East Title?

You think the leaks and WaPo vitriol was/is bad now...

Not only would the press be dragging Snyder's body through the streets, the fans would be begging to help too.

Holy Mackerel......