The Work Thread

[Elephant]

I could never do a job where I have to deal with the general republic... no patience at all for people. Much respect to you for dealing with it, I never could.

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Yeah, we kinda get that impression of you...

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yeah, we kinda get that impression of you...

Careful, I've been infracted for less around here.

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[Goaldeje]

Welp, looks like I'm not getting the promotion I was after. Bummer. Sounds like I may get some additional territory as a consolation prize, which would help, but I'm still bummed.

Gonna hit a Cab Sauvignon hard tonight I think.

 

[Elephant]

OK, question for you guys...especially those who are used to negotiations.

I recently photographed a home for a seller. As many of you know, I am salaried by a single agent to photograph real estate listings. Well, this house I photographed was owned by one of the larger remodeling companies in their area...but the area is 30 minutes from me. After seeing my images, this company is interested in my services for marketing. I gave them a quote and they low balled me. The reality is, this could be the beginning of a long relationship. They update their website after each job and want me to photograph the bigger jobs at the conclusion of each. They have 12 jobs they project for me to photograph over the course of 2014.

The offer I gave them is 25% larger than their counter offer. I guess I am a bit taken back that they would come back with a rate that much lower.

I do not "need" this income. I am doing fine without it, especially after my 10% raise from my boss, but I have to be honest...it would be nice!

I know I must be willing to walk away...but it's a nice chunk of change to walk away from because they would not meet my offer. I told him I needed some time to consider his offer.

 

[Primus Porcus]

OK, question for you guys...especially those who are used to negotiations.

I recently photographed a home for a seller. As many of you know, I am salaried by a single agent to photograph real estate listings. Well, this house I photographed was owned by one of the larger remodeling companies in their area...but the area is 30 minutes from me. After seeing my images, this company is interested in my services for marketing. I gave them a quote and they low balled me. The reality is, this could be the beginning of a long relationship. They update their website after each job and want me to photograph the bigger jobs at the conclusion of each. They have 12 jobs they project for me to photograph over the course of 2014.

The offer I gave them is 25% larger than their counter offer. I guess I am a bit taken back that they would come back with a rate that much lower.

I do not "need" this income. I am doing fine without it, especially after my 10% raise from my boss, but I have to be honest...it would be nice!

I know I must be willing to walk away...but it's a nice chunk of change to walk away from because they would not meet my offer. I told him I needed some time to consider his offer.

This right here is what they're trying to accomplish when the low ball you. Remember that YOU are the one with the services that THEY are looking to render... they're not the one doing the favor. If you feel a certain price is fair, maintain that price. If you have some time to try and do research (albeit i know it's not public knowledge what a photographer gets paid) and see if you can find what other guys are advertising for services.

 

[Elephant]

This right here is what they're trying to accomplish when the low ball you. Remember that YOU are the one with the services that THEY are looking to render... they're not the one doing the favor. If you feel a certain price is fair, maintain that price. If you have some time to try and do research (albeit i know it's not public knowledge what a photographer gets paid) and see if you can find what other guys are advertising for services.

Thing is, I offer something many other photographers don't like...bulk rates. Other photographers charge by the single image and many maintain the rights. I don't have time for that. I just want to do a job and be done with it. So I offer them all 15-30 images and the rights to the images as well for them to do with as they wish.

Here's the thing that kinda pisses me off. If I asked him to replace my windows, what would he say when I came at him with an offer that was 75% of his quote?

 

[HOF44]

Thing is, I offer something many other photographers don't like...bulk rates. Other photographers charge by the single image and many maintain the rights. I don't have time for that. I just want to do a job and be done with it. So I offer them all 15-30 images and the rights to the images as well for them to do with as they wish.

Here's the thing that kinda pisses me off. If I asked him to replace my windows, what would he say when I came at him with an offer that was 75% of his quote?

If the came in at 75% under my ask, I would send a curt no thanks and be done with it. Not even a counteroffer.

edit-- think misunderstood. You were offered 75% of what you asked?? I'd counter with 90% of what I asked.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Yeah now you counter.

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[Elephant]

See, I don't think I should have to counter...but I am going to make him wait a couple days before I decide. I did send him an email stating I need to consider the offer.

I could use this income to take my wife and boy to Marthas Vineyard this summer. Vacations are getting expensive, you know?

 

[HOF44]

See, I don't think I should have to counter...but I am going to make him wait a couple days before I decide. I did send him an email stating I need to consider the offer.

I could use this income to take my wife and boy to Marthas Vineyard this summer. Vacations are getting expensive, you know?

I dont really know what the current rate for this kind of thing is, but you should always pad our offers so you have room to come down. Most places want to negotiate a price. If they just take it, more money for you and a signal maybe your asking to little.

 

[tshile]

El, I sucked at negotiations, but the one thing I've learned watching other people handling business negotiations is if you start the relationship out letting yourself be low balled then that's the tone you set. The relationship will revolve around being low balled and ground down. It's better to stick up for your value and recognize when you offer better quality, convenience, etc. Being good at that means adequately pricing yourself though.

They saw your work and contacted you right? Counter with 85% of your offer.

That being said, maybe this is a big beak.... a stepping stone. in that case realize it as that and be on the look out for the next opportunity... hard to tell.

 

[Nobody]

OK, question for you guys...especially those who are used to negotiations.

I recently photographed a home for a seller. As many of you know, I am salaried by a single agent to photograph real estate listings. Well, this house I photographed was owned by one of the larger remodeling companies in their area...but the area is 30 minutes from me. After seeing my images, this company is interested in my services for marketing. I gave them a quote and they low balled me. The reality is, this could be the beginning of a long relationship. They update their website after each job and want me to photograph the bigger jobs at the conclusion of each. They have 12 jobs they project for me to photograph over the course of 2014.

The offer I gave them is 25% larger than their counter offer. I guess I am a bit taken back that they would come back with a rate that much lower.

I do not "need" this income. I am doing fine without it, especially after my 10% raise from my boss, but I have to be honest...it would be nice!

I know I must be willing to walk away...but it's a nice chunk of change to walk away from because they would not meet my offer. I told him I needed some time to consider his offer.

Tell them to throw in a ham sammich, strawberry milk and a mop, or you'll walk. You gotta play hardball with these bastards

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Thing is, I offer something many other photographers don't like...bulk rates. Other photographers charge by the single image and many maintain the rights. I don't have time for that. I just want to do a job and be done with it. So I offer them all 15-30 images and the rights to the images as well for them to do with as they wish.

I'd stress that; tell them how much more they'd be paying most other photographers, per shoot, per picture, etc. than what they'd pay at your full rate. Make them understand they're getting a bargain at your original rate!

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[tshile]

i don't know why the reference point is 'high school girls'

i see plenty of adults acting really petty, immature, and forming weird cliques and causing bs drama. while i see it most in females, there are males that participate too.

we should change it to 'acting like pathetic adults'

 

[tshile]

In addition to that - would you like to one day have multiple clients that you do this sort of work for? is that more appealing than working through an agent? maybe this way you spend most of your time working with repeat customers which may or may not be a more enjoyable experience?

lots of things to consider.

 

[Nobody]

I can tell I'm getting old. I had an incident that as recently as 10 years ago, I might have dealt with by fighting, but I decided it would be more fun to embarrass the guy and make his job harder.

When I go into a store, I check in the order for my beer and wine (anywhere from 15 to 150 cases), then I wheel the trolley out to where I'll be working product onto the shelves. This is how every vendor does it, and there's never an issue. In fact, every vendor I run into regularly is pretty damn awesome and we get along great. This guy is different.

I was working product, and this guy from another company comes around the corner with way too many bottles of wine in his hands, about to drop them. He huffs and puffs, walks back around the corner, and proceeds to talk shit about me to himself thinking I can't hear him. He was saying things like "I can't believe these stupid mother****ers come in here and get in my way and don't move." Um yeah, I didn't move because you didn't ask me to. Then he say "I'd never put a trolley like that, I'd put it at the end of the aisle, I swear these people are retards." Things like this go on, progressively getting worse, for about 10 minutes.

Finally, I get tired of hearing him bitch, and I walk up to him to confront him. I told him that if he wanted to bitch, that's fine, but to have the balls to be a man and do it to my face instead of under his breath. Then I went on about my business. When I was in his face, he wouldn't say a word. But as soon as I was out of sight, he runs his mouth again. Then he comes around the corner, pushes my product out of the way, and stocks his stuff. I told him if he touched it again, we were gonna have problems. I am responsible for the thousands worth of product on that trolley, and if he breaks it all it's my ass, not his. It's a very serious issue, to the point his company's product can be pulled from the store for it.

So I move it back to where I'm working it again, and again he moves it. I put my stuff down, and get almost nose to nose with him and get ready to brawl. I wanted to pop him in the nose, but I decided to talk it out instead. This is how that conversation went....

Me: "You know the rules, keep your hands off my shit if you wanna keep them."
Him: "I'm 53 years old, you won't do shit you punk."
Me: "Until you start collecting Social Security, you're young enough to get your ass beat."

Then the store manager walks up, who I am very cool with, but is also cool with him.

Him: "This guy is harassing me, can you make him leave?"
Random Customer:" No no no, this guy (talking about the other vendor) has been over here giving this young man a hard time and being an asshole, make him leave."
Me: "Just tell him to keep his hands off my shit."
Him: "Make me."
Me: "Don't make me go to the diaper aisle."
Him: "For what?"
Me: "To sprinkle some baby powder on my hand and bitch slap the shit out of you." (I'm aware most people probably don't get the reference)
Him: "What does that even mean?"
Me: "You're about to be my bitch, and you're gonna stand there and take it."
Him: "I'm friends with the manager."
Me: "You better hope you're friends with Jesus if you touch my shit or run your mouth again."
Store Manager: "You both need to calm down and settle this like adults."

I then go into the back where his other pallet is. I jack it up, and wheel it to the freezer across the store. I then proceed to spend the next 20 minutes moving 7 other pallets in front of it and hide the pallet jack. I told the receiving clerk, who hates his guts, and told her when she got tired of watching his confusion, to tell him what I did. Then I go finish working my product.

After a half hour, he comes out of the back sweating like a pig, and looks mad as hell.

Him: "It was wrong for you to do that, and you know it."
Me: "Yeah, but I bet you won't touch my shit again."

Then I started laughing my ass off in his face in an overly childish manner and got a high five from the manager on my way out right in front of him, and she really is a personal friend of his, which made it so beautiful

I am well aware it was an immature way to handle it, but I think it's better than fighting. I just hate people that think they can run their mouth relentlessly and do whatever they want, and think they won't have to answer for it. I ran into him a few hours later at another store, and guess what happened? He walked straight up to me and apologized for being a jerk, and we called a truce. Problem solved, and damn I had fun doing it.

 

[Elephant]

I refuse to work for less than what I think I am worth. I can make it without the potential thousands to be made. I have thought about much of what you guys have said, I still think this is a situation where he simply came in way too low when I was not even expecting a negotiation of terms...I am fairly certain he doesn't do that in his business as a contractor.

I could use the money, but I will not let them dictate terms. He approached me for my services.

I have done some work for contractors lately on the side and will get more this year, but none as frequent as this guy. Too bad...he will end up paying more or getting sub-par work.


I have thought about it enough and will decline the offer.

 

[tshile]

I can't stand the business decisions I watch other companies make on a regular basis. Dick over long term employees to save a couple hundred dollars, and do it without a second thought.

It's funny because companies that are run like that seem to always struggle. Shoddy business decisions across the board. Go figure.

 

[Goaldeje]

Hey, it's all fun and games until you take away pron.

 

[Goaldeje]

I've been approached by a company in an entirely different field to consider a more entrepreneurial position. I am having trouble with this. I love what I do now, but feel dicked over for a variety of reasons, and slightly disrespected as well. This other company caught me at a good time (for them). I am trying to take things slowly and gather info slowly to make a good, informed decision about what would be best for me and my family. It theoretically involves a fair amount more money but also a fair amount more risk.