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SkinsNumberOne

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Josh Norman questioning fan loyalty after the Bears game.

Nobody has a clue out at Redskins Park, do they?
Wow, I try to read a fair amount of postgame stuff about the games, but somehow missed this, or maybe my mind just automatically "filters to junk" anything that Norman says now? Still somehow surprising how stupid he can be. Pointing fingers at the fans is generally the worst, when you are losing. I kind of get it when a team is winning and is upset at fan support being low (I think the Nats made some comment, not very strong, about how the stands weren't very full; the article I was reading was more strongly worded than any quote though). I don't get it all when a team that seems incapable of winning complains (well, I do sort of get it, and it's probably part of being incapable).

RE: the OP, good call on Haskins coming in. No matter who replaces Gruden, I don't think anything major will change; I think they waited too long and lost most of the hot prospects they had on their staff. Then again, I'm not convinced any of those guys would have been fully committed to being a Skins HC; a lot of them probably saw what happened to Mike S, and weren't so hot on following his footsteps with Danny. I think it's simply tough to win as a member of this organization; the pieces do not work well together, and that is because the owner has no clue.
 
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Bulldog

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You know why this team is a loser?

The Redskins sign Josh Norman, the Nationals sign Max Scherzer in free agency.

It's all about the personnel.
 

Canadian Hog

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The one thing I'll say about Dan is this. Over the years he has usually had a pretty decent sense of when things are on the brink of entirely derailing with the fan base. We are currently at one of those crossroads moments as we speak based on how this season is transpiring.

After the 12-20 Steve Spurrier experiment, he pulls a rabbit out of the hat in 2004 and lures Gibbs out of retirement. Instant credibility and fan elation.

Fast forward to the next 12-20 debacle led by Jim Zorn and his Burgundy and Black Swinging Gates. Snyder strikes again by bringing in a two time Super Bowl winning coach in Mike Shanahan. Once again, the move buys the owner some time and gives the fan base a glimmer of hope.

What's next? Well, Shanahan sputters to a 3-13 ugly final year, Gruden is brought in and goes 4-12 in year 1. Once again, the pitchforks are out in full force among the Redskins faithful. This time, Scot McCloughan comes along for the ride and is used as the next puppet to calm the masses.

Surely, Snyder must see what is going on here. He's proven in three other occasions where things have gotten REALLY bad that he's not afraid to act out of desperation.

All we can hope for at this point is that things go from really bad to a lot worse. It hurts to say it, but we need a 2-14 or 3-13 type effort the rest of the way if we hope to have the change we desperately need at the top.

Come January, I think you'll see a clean sweep in Ashburn, from Allen down through the entire coaching staff. Snyder has made a living as Redskins owner off of buying time. I have no doubt he's going to do it at season's end. Allen will be out.

The problem is that Dan has almost always tried to rectify bad situations with other bad hires. Thus, I'm not sure what there is to be excited about even when Allen is shown the door.
 

Bulldog

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Shanahan wasn't a bad hire.

Because of the cap penalty the team couldn't make trades or sign impact free agents.

The trade of all those picks for Griffin, a move Shanahan resisted, meant the team around the qb was not going to improve dramatically for some time.

If the club had been more patient and allowed Shanahan to run the team for the 5 years his contract was to run then I think you would have seen better results.

But Snyder couldn't help but get involved with choosing and coddling Griffin to the detriment of the club.
 

Boone

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From the files of for what it's worth' ...

Stephen A. Smith reporting that sources tell him Gruden is going to be fired, possibly as soon as next week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DixieFlatline

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William and Mary

From the files of for what it's worth' ...

Stephen A. Smith reporting that sources tell him Gruden is going to be fired, possibly as soon as next week.


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Was just about to post the same thing. Hopefully you don't have to use the ESPN app to see the video.

https://es.pn/2mDQKXP via @ESPN App http://espn.com/app
 

Win4us

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From the files of for what it's worth' ...

Stephen A. Smith reporting that sources tell him Gruden is going to be fired, possibly as soon as next week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
3A4A35EC-AFA1-4E20-ABA1-460E3461735A.jpeg

......
 

Henry

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The one thing I'll say about Dan is this. Over the years he has usually had a pretty decent sense of when things are on the brink of entirely derailing with the fan base. We are currently at one of those crossroads moments as we speak based on how this season is transpiring.

After the 12-20 Steve Spurrier experiment, he pulls a rabbit out of the hat in 2004 and lures Gibbs out of retirement. Instant credibility and fan elation.

Fast forward to the next 12-20 debacle led by Jim Zorn and his Burgundy and Black Swinging Gates. Snyder strikes again by bringing in a two time Super Bowl winning coach in Mike Shanahan. Once again, the move buys the owner some time and gives the fan base a glimmer of hope.

What's next? Well, Shanahan sputters to a 3-13 ugly final year, Gruden is brought in and goes 4-12 in year 1. Once again, the pitchforks are out in full force among the Redskins faithful. This time, Scot McCloughan comes along for the ride and is used as the next puppet to calm the masses.

Surely, Snyder must see what is going on here. He's proven in three other occasions where things have gotten REALLY bad that he's not afraid to act out of desperation.

All we can hope for at this point is that things go from really bad to a lot worse. It hurts to say it, but we need a 2-14 or 3-13 type effort the rest of the way if we hope to have the change we desperately need at the top.

Come January, I think you'll see a clean sweep in Ashburn, from Allen down through the entire coaching staff. Snyder has made a living as Redskins owner off of buying time. I have no doubt he's going to do it at season's end. Allen will be out.

The problem is that Dan has almost always tried to rectify bad situations with other bad hires. Thus, I'm not sure what there is to be excited about even when Allen is shown the door.
This post nailed it. Allen, like Ceratto before him, is merely a symptom, not the disease.

As I once read a while ago, Snyder needs to stop playing chess with the fanbase and just work on winning games. There is literally nothing he could do at this point to get me interested in this team other than post a winning record, and then another one, and then maybe another one. One after that wouldn't hurt. Throw a few playoff wins on top of that as well.

Anything less than that ... not even Joe Gibbs himself could get me excited about this team again.
 
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Kel Varnsen

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The one thing I'll say about Dan is this. Over the years he has usually had a pretty decent sense of when things are on the brink of entirely derailing with the fan base. We are currently at one of those crossroads moments as we speak based on how this season is transpiring.

After the 12-20 Steve Spurrier experiment, he pulls a rabbit out of the hat in 2004 and lures Gibbs out of retirement. Instant credibility and fan elation.

Fast forward to the next 12-20 debacle led by Jim Zorn and his Burgundy and Black Swinging Gates. Snyder strikes again by bringing in a two time Super Bowl winning coach in Mike Shanahan. Once again, the move buys the owner some time and gives the fan base a glimmer of hope.

What's next? Well, Shanahan sputters to a 3-13 ugly final year, Gruden is brought in and goes 4-12 in year 1. Once again, the pitchforks are out in full force among the Redskins faithful. This time, Scot McCloughan comes along for the ride and is used as the next puppet to calm the masses.

Surely, Snyder must see what is going on here. He's proven in three other occasions where things have gotten REALLY bad that he's not afraid to act out of desperation.

All we can hope for at this point is that things go from really bad to a lot worse. It hurts to say it, but we need a 2-14 or 3-13 type effort the rest of the way if we hope to have the change we desperately need at the top.

Come January, I think you'll see a clean sweep in Ashburn, from Allen down through the entire coaching staff. Snyder has made a living as Redskins owner off of buying time. I have no doubt he's going to do it at season's end. Allen will be out.

The problem is that Dan has almost always tried to rectify bad situations with other bad hires. Thus, I'm not sure what there is to be excited about even when Allen is shown the door.
I was thinking about something similar with the head coaches. Snyder seems to go between clueless head coach to big name previously successful coach. The level of cluelessness and previous success varies by each guy, but I think those terms generally sum up these coaches.

Turner/Robiskie - Clueless
Schottenheimer - Big name
Spurrier - clueless in the NFL
Gibbs - Big name
Zorn - clueless
Shanahan - Big name
Gruden - Clueless
Next coach - Expect a big name

I agree with you that Snyder makes the moves to strike up interest in the team. It's not always what is the best football decision, which has always been the problem.


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Special K

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This post nailed it. Allen, like Ceratto before him, is merely a symptom, not the disease.

As I once read a while ago, Snyder needs to stop playing chess with the fanbase and just work on winning games. There is literally nothing he could do at this point to get me interested in this team other than post a winning record, and then another one, and then maybe another one. One after that wouldn't hurt. Throw a few playoff wins on top of that as well.

Anything less than that ... not even Joe Gibbs himself could get me interested in this team again.
This is exactly where I am at.

The only thing I'm grateful for during this Snyder era is the friendships I've formed with other awesome Redskins fans.
 

Bulldog

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The Redskins level of play in getting to 0-4 through four mostly non-competitive contests shows a ship that really doesn't have a hand on the tiller.

Whether you elevate Callahan and let O'Connell be the OC and perhaps replace Manusky with say Ray Horton, the team can't get any worse.

Can it stay the same? Yes.

But there is also the chance it could get better.

Right now there is no upside. I think on defense the players are collectively tuning Manusky out after all of the early confusion, etc.

On offense we need some direction from someone that has as part of the stated agenda the development of Dwayne Haskins.

That doesn't mean Haskins has to start the next game, but unlike Gruden who seems to treat Haskins like a leper we need an HC and OC that recognize at 0-4 or 0-5 after New England that at some point we need to see Dwayne and by Week 8 or 9 that likely means paring this system down to 15 playsthe kid can run and focus on execution rather than variety.

That's Gruden's greatest flaw - he thinks having a 500 page playbook with complexity is key to being successful.

That's not correct. It's better to have plays the players we HAVE can execute.

In Gibbs' case we had 4 basic running plays.

Dimitroff in a recent interview said Belichick installs a new plan for each game and certain plays may be ones that are not already in the playbook.

But the goal on both sides of the line of scrimmage is to simplify things to the point where learning and execution in timely fashion is possible.

If players are looking at each other between snaps that's a sign the coach has failed.
 

fansince62

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Apologies all...but who really cares at this point? DS's character is not going to change. He alternates between pummeling those who challenge his ego and abject cowardice. He simply isn't cut out to be owner of an NFL franchise: there's nothing inspirational; there's no identity for a team to rally around; heck there's no love for this owner - he's a bill payer and that's about it.

He likes tossing bones to the Skins doggedly loyal fanbase. That ride is coming to a close.

Whatcha gonna do, whatcha gonna do, when they come for you.
 
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Beetlejuice

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At this point, we're worse than the Dolphins, and nobody can change my mind about that.

Statistically, we're nearly equal other than points. We get penalized nearly twice as often as they do. Their games have been against good-great teams while we got blown out by the Giants. We have far more talent on our roster and still are no better than they are, and the biggest problem is that this is all happening while they are blatantly tanking the season and we are trying to win games.

Essentially, the first team between us and them to win a game, loses.
 

Ax

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The Redskins level of play in getting to 0-4 through four mostly non-competitive contests shows a ship that really doesn't have a hand on the tiller.

Whether you elevate Callahan and let O'Connell be the OC and perhaps replace Manusky with say Ray Horton, the team can't get any worse.

Can it stay the same? Yes.

But there is also the chance it could get better.
So the question is, after the Colt McCoy led "Gruden's Systems" defeat the Cheatriots this Sunday,
will your preferred direction for the team change, at all?
 

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