The Name Change

fansince62 said:
drumlinboy: very interesting post. you betcha! money is a big part of it!

I would add, at least here, at least now...ideology is also a major driver. these phenomena are as old as the ages. submit or disappear.
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I am pleased to say that Racism is not as big a problem here as it appears to be over there but the West of Scotland is rife with religious bigotry (much to my shame) with both sides equally to blame. This problem has only been made worse by many attempts to appease one side or the other. So today in my beloved country you will have both Protestants and Roman Catholics both claiming mock offense (yes mock) because one side said X, It is not right and I would argue that appeasement never has worked at any time in history. So if some suggest changing our name or even apologising for it to appease a group I say NO. because it never stops it only gives them leverage.

I would love to know how much the money rich Oneida gives to their Native American brethren.
 
drumlinboy said:
I would love to know how much the money rich Oneida gives to their Native American brethren.
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The main guy claiming himself as "Oneida" has quite the shady past. If you want to see how corrupt he is, I know we have some links to what he has done around here somewhere....
 
drumlinboy said:
I am pleased to say that Racism is not as big a problem here as it appears to be over there but the West of Scotland is rife with religious bigotry (much to my shame) with both sides equally to blame. This problem has only been made worse by many attempts to appease one side or the other. So today in my beloved country you will have both Protestants and Roman Catholics both claiming mock offense (yes mock) because one side said X, It is not right and I would argue that appeasement never has worked at any time in history. So if some suggest changing our name or even apologising for it to appease a group I say NO. because it never stops it only gives them leverage.

I would love to know how much the money rich Oneida gives to their Native American brethren.
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again...I agree.

the sad part? much of this - which is obviously about power and control - only serves to mask those cases where real racism, bigotry, etc., exist. the accusation of racism is employed so often here - mostly as a club to silence political opponents - that it has lost much of its force as an animating idea that unites people.
 
fansince62 said:
again...I agree.

the sad part? much of this - which is obviously about power and control - only serves to mask those cases where real racism, bigotry, etc., exist. the accusation of racism is employed so often here - mostly as a club to silence political opponents - that it has lost much of its force as an animating idea that unites people.
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Brilliant point those who proclaim outrage constantly for their own agenda do mask genuine cases.

A phrase in almost common usage over here is "always offended, never ashamed".
 
Under the new guidelines, and with the expressed authority by ownership of self policing, I hereby close this thread, and issue warnings to all participants, for violating the no P-word, R-word, or OC-word protocols.
 
drumlinboy said:
Brilliant point those who proclaim outrage constantly for their own agenda do mask genuine cases.

A phrase in almost common usage over here is "always offended, never ashamed".
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I don't buy that at all. It's simply a different perspective; there doesn't have to be a motive, nefarious or otherwise. People just see things differently, that's just how the world works.

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Lanky Livingston said:
I don't buy that at all. It's simply a different perspective; there doesn't have to be a motive, nefarious or otherwise. People just see things differently, that's just how the world works.

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with appropriate respect....you may be over-generalizing.

people just don't randomly see things differently. they perceive, they understand, they develop knowledge, they decide. the decision part is the key. unless that is completely irrational....it is based on some set of criteria....some notion of preferred outcomes. a scale. decision criteria. where do these decision criteria come from? can they be good or bad?

the ascription of qualifiers to motives? in the present context, that, obviously, is driven by the value system an individual choses to live by. it would be more worrisome if individuals conducted themselves without these. the problem here isn't the value assignment - it exists and always will. the problem is that there are different value systems that clash. the idea that somehow ideas can be separated from assessments of motive...especially given some of the issues discussed which are inherently contentious....is off IMO. were someone to utter a blatantly racist idea on this board...it's a near certainty they would be banned. it's not just a different perspective. an idea, in other words, can have consequences....and these consequences draw from normative foundations.

so, I get one idea you are seemingly advocating: that we need to be careful not to allow our value assessments of ideas to overly influence our judgment of people (and the behavioral patterns that flow from this). a functioning society requires moderated behavior - that's true. but that does not eliminate the inherent nature of the interaction and it does not change the fact that there are thresholds. at some point the assessment we make of ideas becomes an assessment of the person expressing those ideas - especially these days where everything apparently is about fairness. the real point is where that transition occurs. at the moment...the community owners are telling us the bar has been set too low and they are intervening to reset matters. they are communicating, IMO and my words, that the transition point is going to be set by them and that it will coincide with the banning point. the association of ideas and character, motive, whatever you chose to call it, however, remains inherent to the exchange of a specific subset of ideas (all the political ones we are all familiar with). so, we are moving toward a solution which removes that subset of ideas which is most closely aligned with this leap from idea to character. perhaps a better way of putting it: the mapping of character assessment to ideas...is always there. the intervention/rules change is effectively saying "there or not...a subset of responses (character assessment..call it attack if you like) is no longer acceptable for multiple reasons: it violates the community standards we are trying to set, it descends too often from observation to character assassination, it has tinges of passive/overt aggression that are not acceptable, it collapses into the vulgar too frequently...it is....as a response mechanism...no longer acceptable. It has potential impacts on the growth of the community spirit we no longer tolerate." so, again (my opinion on the logic of what is playing out), what is being ruled out is a set of responses/behavioral patterns. the logic, however, remains in place.

yea...overly complicated thought process for a simple notion on acceptable behavior. wanted to draw out the the basic notion that eliminating the behavior pattern/response....doesn't eliminate the assessment. we are being told...keep the assessment to yourselves or PMs.
 
WT: Harry Reid to NFL, Dan Snyder: Change Washington Redskins name

No. You are being told that you are welcome to whatever opinions, beliefs, expressions, debates and values your hearts desire.

Just not outside of the well established expectations on style and civility, on our dime and on our floor, any more.

Please don't push it.
 
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Overtly Controversial posts are not allowed.

Accusations of racism, and/or Mr. Sterling, are indeed overtly controversial.

And Sherman is not a Redskin.
 
Ax said:
Overtly Controversial posts are not allowed.

Accusations of racism, and/or Mr. Sterling, are indeed overtly controversial.

And Sherman is not a Redskin.
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Sherman is somebody we play though, so I feel I can actively state he should get bent :p
 
Shi no Tenshi said:
They players made their vote on that too...what happened to Riley Cooper again? Oh yeah, he got a nice contract this offseason. His teammates think he's great!
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Agree here... Riley Cooper would have been easy to make an example of if the NFL really care about racism. Then again, Philly as an organization is a cesspool; matches their city. They did sign a serial dog murderer to QB their team.

Surprising to me that Sherman didn't mention him, but then again, he loves to troll the Redskins and their fans.

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What has changed is not that people have differing views it is that the new 'standard' for acceptability is 100% agreement.

If even one person out of a thousand claims they are offended by something pressure is brought to bear to change whatever that person considers offensive.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
but then again, he loves to troll the Redskins and their fans.
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That's why i can never get behind Sherman. He just says things to elicit a reaction. He throws up such a wall of garbage that it generally isn't worth the time to filter through it to the grist of his meaning. I know he is a smart guy, I know he probably has many intelligent points; it is just a pity he covers it in such filth.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
What has changed is not that people have differing views it is that the new 'standard' for acceptability is 100% agreement.

If even one person out of a thousand claims they are offended by something pressure is brought to bear to change whatever that person considers offensive.
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exactly or as I like to say an individuals rights now supersede all.

Just because I scream I am offended, does not actually mean it is offensive
 
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