The lessons of 2025

[burgold]

The Good:

Laremy Tunsil is a franchise LT. We should extend him.
The light might have turned on for Chris Paul. His guard play has been pretty solid once he got his shot to fill in for Coleman.
Trey Amos is playing like a second round rookie and is probably at least a solid #2 CB.

The bad:
Daniels can't turn water into wine. Just because he's a franchise QB it turns out he needs a player who can get open.
Kingsbury can't scheme water into wine. Because of the injuries and lack of threat, defenses have learned all they have to do is stack the line and the pressure will nullify both the passing and running game.
Deebo Samuel has heart, but he can not be a number one. He doesn't have enough to lift a group of alsorans. Sadly, I'd let him walk. In the end, his signing seems the same semi-successful experiment we had with Curtis Samuel and Randle-El. Our front offices no matter who runs them love the idea of a gadget guy/YAC/Swiss army knife receiver. It generally works out only okay for us.
Brandon Coleman is a tackle and not a guard at least at this point. Maybe he's a valuable third/swing tackle or maybe he can develop into a starter after Tunsil ages out.
Mike Sainristil may be a better outside corner than nickel. Is this another case of seeing a player succeed and deciding to stuff him into a predetermined slot?
Regression. Regression. Regression.

The ugly:
Joe Whitt has proved two years in a row that he can't scheme up a defense. He was bad in 2024. We forgave a lot because Daniels pulled off so many last minute wins, but the reason Daniels had to pull off so many last minute wins was because the defense was awful. This year, without Daniels to protect him his bend and break defense is just hapless. The fact that BSJ and Forbes seem to be doing okay to good on other teams makes it that much worse.
Injuries. Injuries. Injuries.

 

[Discobob]

The bad:
Daniels can't turn water into wine. Just because he's a franchise QB it turns out he needs a player who can get open.
Kingsbury can't scheme water into wine. Because of the injuries and lack of threat, defenses have learned all they have to do is stack the line and the pressure will nullify both the passing and running game.

I would also say that it is likely not in the cards to change the way Jayden plays. If we trot him out there with players that just can't get open, play after play, we should expect that he's gonna try to make things happen. We cannot go into a season with such a dearth of receiving options. The Noah Brown one is the most perplexing to me.

 

[burgold]

I'll admit I was wrong about Noah Brown. I remembered the first half of 2024. Noah was almost the defacto number 1 receiver and was getting stuff done. He was a great possession plus guy for us with great hands and a knack for making the defender commit PIs. So, I was pleased to see him. I envisioned a trio of McLaurin (fast, downfield and midrange receiver), Deebo (YAC, utility knife playmaker) and Brown (move the chains possession guy with sneaky playmaking ability) as a pretty strong unit, but Brown got hurt in preseason and never got well.

They should have tried to re-sign OZ instead. And yes, I know OZ and Brown are different players, but I think Peters wanted to upgrade the unit and to make one continuity re-signing.

 

[HOF28]

The Good:

Laremy Tunsil is a franchise LT. We should extend him.
The light might have turned on for Chris Paul. His guard play has been pretty solid once he got his shot to fill in for Coleman.
Trey Amos is playing like a second round rookie and is probably at least a solid #2.

The ugly:
Joe Whitt has proved two years in a row that he can't scheme up a defense. He was bad in 2024. We forgave a lot because Daniels pulled off so many last minute wins, but the reason Daniels had to pull off so many last minute wins was because the defense was awful. This year, without Daniels to protect him his bend and break defense is just hapless. The fact that BSJ and Forbes seem to be doing okay to good on other teams makes it that much worse.
Injuries. Injuries. Injuries.

I wish we would have let Coleman play LT and saved picks while Tunsil is fine but Connerly looks terrible seems like another Ron level bust, hopefully not. Wiley was actually better. The line really looks no better than last year despite all the “upgrades”.

You’re right about BSJ and Forbes they are playing better than our corners, I’m sure a lot of that is they have significantly better D lines but again another AP failure to build the team. We traded away too many picks when we need younger players

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I will add:

The good:
One thing Peters has done well is not commit to a team long term. There are literally no long term contracts we need to get out of. Lattimore will be gone. Wagner and Ertz are probably not coming back. Payne can be traded or released. The following players are Free Agents, which means if we want them gone, there's no cost to getting them gone:
Deebo - 30: (should be traded)
Bobby Wagner - 36: (probably will retire, or at least won't be back)
Mariota - 32: (probably won't be back, could be traded)
Zach Ertz - 35: (won't be back)
Von Miller - 36: (won't be back)
Jonathan Jones - 32: Might be traded and probably won't be back
Matt Gay - 31: Probably won't be back
Austin Ekler - 30: Probably won't be back
Andrew Wylie - 31: Might be re-signed as a backup swing tackle
D. Wise - 31: He was good when healthy, but he's going to miss the season, so he probably won't be back
Noah Brown - 30: won't be back
Tress Way - 35: He should be back
Noah I. - 25: He should be back
Trent Scott - 32: They have to re-sign the guy who caught JD5's first TD.
Joshn Johnson - 39: Won't be back
Jeremy McNichols - 30: Maybe?
Eddie Goldman - 31: Maybe?
George Fant - 33: Maybe?
Tyree Jackson - 28: I don't actually know who this is
Chris Rodriguez - 25: I hope he's back
Chris Paul - 26: I hope he's back

So, the team has the flexibility to re-build (again) overnight. The down-side is limited draft capital. However, they have incredible roster flexibility otherwise.

The 2025 draft class of Conerly, Amos, Lane, Medrano and Bill looks like there could be some really good players in that group. Conerly is doing fine, especially given the situation he (and the rest of the OL) is in. Amos looks good for a rookie, Lane has had a couple of really rough weeks, but you can see why they liked him, and Bill has shown flashes. The book is still out, but I'd say the arrow is still pointing up.

The Bad:
It looked like the three players from last year's draft class who were standouts were Daniels, Sainristil and Coleman. Sinsristil has regressed and was beaten like a drum on one of the TD passes, the WR just ran right by him. Coleman's position was flipped and then he was benched and now it looks like he's really a better tackle than guard. They are getting production/contributions from Newton/Sinnott/McCaffery, but not a lot yet. The book is not written on this draft class, but with the number of top 100 picks, you'd like to see more production from them at this point.


The Ugly:
One player's selfish holdout, if it's the "right player" can disrupt the preparation of an entire unit. Terry not being there in camp had a much lager effect on the overall preparation of the unit than people made out. As skinsinparadise has said over and over, Burrow said it took a few weeks last year for him and Chase to get on the same page. And then add to that Terry got hurt almost immediately with a soft tissue injury and has basically been unavailable the entire season.

When you lose an entire position group, almost no matter what that position is, you become one dimensional, and teams can stop that dimension. There really is no way to scheme anybody open when you can play man against WRs and assume they are covered. You can't scheme open against man, with the exception of running rub routes to try and knock a CB off the WR, and while that works from time to time, defenses know it's coming and have gotten pretty good at dealing with it. Also, if you don't do it right, it's an offensive PI.

This is also true for the DE group. Wise, Armstrong and Jean-Baptiste are all on IR. They were the two starters and primary backup. There's nobody left. Which means we can't set the edge in the running game and can't get pressure from the edge. This allows an offense to basically do whatever it wants.

To me the biggest personnel mistake in the off-season was re-signing Noah Brown. I like the guy, he caught the Hail Noah, but he was released from the Texans basically because he couldn't stay healthy, was injurred last year, and then got hurt in mini-camp this year and has barely been on the field. Signing Noah cost us OZ and DBrown, neither of which were going to sign after we signed Noah, because we had already added Deebo, and McCaffery was on the roster. So, with the Noah Brown signing, the first 4 WR slots were filled: McLaurin, Deebo, NBrown and McCaffery. If either of them, or both, signed, they were signing up essentially to compete for the 5th roster spot. Then we went and drafted Lane, and there was always a likelihood we were going to draft a WR. So now they were competing for the 6th roster spot. Their agents (unlike Terry's) aren't stupid and wouldn't let them do that. Hindsight is 50/50 as Spurrier used to say, but that stands out as the biggest off-season personnel mistake to me.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

One more thing: We have the 5th most salary cap space next season at $96M according to Spotrac. And only $248k of dead cap money as of now.

The issue is you can't really build a team through FA. Peters has been trying to just use moderate deals to mid-level players for the most part. He might have to change that philosophy for next year. But that's a "good." They will have the ability to get what they want through FA if they choose to.

 

[skinsinparadise]

I talked about this in the game thread some. Lessons IMO.

A. Camp matters. Terry not being there. Noah not beting there. Not having Jayden throw once in the preseason matters. GB said their studies indicate not playing their guys in preseason increases the risk of injury during the season, especially early season. Maybe that's so. I get some other teams treat camp like a joke like Quinn does. But I think one difference is this team has a lot of new moving partsor fairly new moving parts. You need more time to develop chemistry and master the scheme. I don't want to hear again from Quinn shrugging off September football as if its the real preseason and can therby dismissed.

B. Depth at WR matters. It affects everything including Jayden's health. You got a franchise QB -- support him with playmakers and depth. Your top backup outside WR is Chris Moore. And you are shocked that often injured Noah Brown gets hurt. And hold out Terry gets hurt, too. Seeing the Titanic coming on this sport wasn't hard to see. I said if many times this off season,

C. Stop being so conservative in FA. You are afraid to pay Josh Sweat big money because you don't want to be saddled with a bad contract if goes wrong? Well, Sweat is playing well. And he's still young and emerging. Howie Roseman isn't legend because he's timid.

D. Don't double down on mistakes to prove a point. See Lattimore.

E. Quinn you are a defensive genius by reputation. You cant be running a crap defense and be taking seriously. I know Whitt is a pal but have the guts to hire a top coordinator. We got a window to win this. Yes I still believe in it as to 2026. Don't throw it away because you are pals with a dude. Same mistakes that Shanny and Jay did to some extent -- caring more about comfort and personal chemistry with your D coordinator versus hiring a top flight one. Gibbs and Gregg Williams couldn't have been more different cats -- yet Gibbs wanted to hire the best at the time.

How do you fix this IMO?

A. Hire a new coordinator

B. Sign or draft high at least 2 WRs.

C. Sign or draft high at least 2 DEs

D. Sign a veteran MLB to replace Wagner.

E. Dump Lattimore and sign or draft high a CB.

F. Stop doing patchwork signings at safety. It's one thing that Jay's regime, Ron and Peters have in common. Sign a major safety who can direct a defense.

G. Let Ertz go sign a TE in FA.

I am also not against drafting a game breaker type even at an unpopular position like J. Love with Notre Dame. This team is lacking elite speed and game breakers. I am open to finding help at any spot

 

[Chris]

One more thing: We have the 5th most salary cap space next season at $96M according to Spotrac. And only $248k of dead cap money as of now.

The issue is you can't really build a team through FA. Peters has been trying to just use moderate deals to mid-level players for the most part. He might have to change that philosophy for next year. But that's a "good." They will have the ability to get what they want through FA if they choose to.

Well, that is a positive silver lining. The team currently has 1,3,5,6,6,7 in April. They are going to have to be active FA spenders.

 

[heisenberg]

Quinn you are a defensive genius by reputation. You cant be running a crap defense and be taking seriously. I know Whitt is a pal but have the guts to hire a top coordinator. We got a window to win this. Yes I still believe in it as to 2026. Don't throw it away because you are pals with a dude.

That's one of my biggest fears with the bromance Quinn and peters developed.

Will peters have the balls to force changes that Quinn doesnt want?

 

[skinsinparadise]

That's one of my biggest fears with the bromance Quinn and peters developed.

Will peters have the balls to force changes that Quinn doesnt want?

My gut on this. Judging by what some reporters have said about both dudes.

Our only hope to make changes on coaching staff is likely from Peters. And I think the odds are it would be him driving it.

Main reasons why I think that are:

A. I hear Peters is competitive as hell. Bram said the most competitive person he's ever been around. This has to be eating him.

B. In a way he's at odds with Whitt as to responsiblity to what happened to the defense. If its just Whitt is running the worst defense in the NFL but heck even that is an accomplishment considering how bad of a roster Peters gave him -- that makes Peters look bad.

Personally I think 75% or so of the defenses problems are about Whitt. 25% is about Peters. It's not that I think that Peters gave him a great roster. But its not this level bad. So many reporters-radio personalities have a hard time going after Whitt -- I gather because he's so likeable and open in his press conferences. But some like Sheehan and Grant Paulsen have echoed this same point, the roster isn't this level bad.

 

[DWinzit]

Peters and DQ are really going to hear and feel the heat...that's good. Their vision on this team blew up. They need to reevaluate their plan shuffle the cards and start planning for next year. It is a shame they must field a team for the rest of the year because this is going to be awful. At least the few young players we have should receive lots of play time.

And for goodness sake, focus on play makers, defenders that can cover and tackle and get pressure on the QB's. Sam freaking Darnold looked like Tom Brady last night. The only pressure he felt was a little from his head cold

 

[Bulldog]

We can go position by position but the underlying theme is today’s NFL is a younger man’s league.

I grew up watching 14 game seasons with a much longer camp/preseason.

Now it’s 17 games, soon to be 18 and the lead up in the offseason is shorter and less intense.

That and the cap mitigate against having an older team and being able to compete.

Injuries hit all teams at one point or another.

But I don’t think it’s a stretch to think that Washington and SF have the most injuries in part because they are among the oldest clubs.

Older players tend to get hurt more often and take longer to recover from those injuries.

Yes, we have lost some younger players too (Armstrong - 27) but look at the early injuries to starters.

Wise - 30
Jones -31
Harris - 29
McLaurin - 30
Deebo - 30
Ekeler -30
Brown - 29/30
Gay - 31

Tunsil has missed time at 30 too.

 

[Discobob]

Hindsight is 50/50 as Spurrier used to say, but that stands out as the biggest off-season personnel mistake to me.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

B. Depth at WR matters. It affects everything including Jayden's health. You got a franchise QB -- support him with playmakers and depth. Your top backup outside WR is Chris Moore. And you are shocked that often injured Noah Brown gets hurt. And hold out Terry gets hurt, too. Seeing the Titanic coming on this sport wasn't hard to see. I said if many times this off season,

The plan at WR never materialized. I said in some thread the biggest mistake in hindsight was signing Noah Brown. It caused OZ and DBrown to not want to return. The other problem is WRs 4 and 5 were a work-in-progress McCaffery and a rookie Lane. And they had nothing behind that. Moore was released in the cutdown to 53. Then re-signed because they needed a warm body.

I don't think you can assume WRs 1-3 are all going to get hurt. But they did, and 4 and 5 are a second year project and a rookie.

Bad plan.

 

[skinsinparadise]

The plan at WR never materialized. I said in some thread the biggest mistake in hindsight was signing Noah Brown. It caused OZ and DBrown to not want to return. The other problem is WRs 4 and 5 were a work-in-progress McCaffery and a rookie Lane. And they had nothing behind that. Moore was released in the cutdown to 53. Then re-signed because they needed a warm body.

I don't think you can assume WRs 1-3 are all going to get hurt. But they did, and 4 and 5 are a second year project and a rookie.

Bad plan.

I think you can assume at a minimum that Noah Brown who was hurt at the end of the season. hurt in minicamp, hurt through much of his career. That that dude wouldn't hold up a season let alone riding on gambiling on otherwise with no serious backup for him in case he went down.

The thing is as you know there is a difference between playing outside WR and inside. they let Dyami go who was their primary outside backup. Zaccheus was more of a slot but could play Z in a pinch, and they let him go.

Al fine. But bring a legit outside WR backup and assume that considering your Z WR can never stay healthy said backup WR would likely start for most of the season.

So that Z WR scenario crashed on them. And the odds were it was going to crash on them. And to make it worse Terry got hurt, too. So they not only needed one legit backup WR, they needed two. And they had neither.

A guy like Keenan Allen could have been had on the cheap. He's not killer but your team isn't going to look pathetic at Z or X if you lose your starter. Players like that.

 

[Dah-Dee]

The plan at WR never materialized. I said in some thread the biggest mistake in hindsight was signing Noah Brown. It caused OZ and DBrown to not want to return. The other problem is WRs 4 and 5 were a work-in-progress McCaffery and a rookie Lane. And they had nothing behind that. Moore was released in the cutdown to 53. Then re-signed because they needed a warm body.

I don't think you can assume WRs 1-3 are all going to get hurt. But they did, and 4 and 5 are a second year project and a rookie.

Bad plan.

Amen. Bad offseason decisions combined with injuries have equaled disaster. I'm not sure they (or anybody else) were ever going to offer Brown anything close to the 10M he got from Jax, but letting Zaccheus go to the Bears for pennies was a huge blunder.

Worse, AP really did nothing to address the holes left, so instead of McCaffrey and Lane continuing to develop as 6/7 receivers and returners, they were 4/5, which is a problem (especially when your #1 is holding out and your chronically-hurt #3 has had two injuries before the season even starts) - McCaffrey has trouble getting separation, and Lane has iffy hands when he's not getting pushed around by DBs. Washington could have doubled the salary Zaccheus got from Chicago and still not noticed it re the cap, and at least promised him a shot at the starter role in camp versus the brittle Brown.

Even late, instead of signing PS material like Chris Moore and Robbie Chosen, they could have paid up to get somebody like Tyler Boyd.

This all makes me seriously doubt the judgment of those involved in the passing game. Did the passing/receivers coordinators/coaches misjudge how ready for prime time Luke and Jaylin would be? Seems like.

 

[Chris 44]

That's one of my biggest fears with the bromance Quinn and peters developed.

Will peters have the balls to force changes that Quinn doesnt want?

Im thinking at some point Harris will not stand pat if AP doesn't act on his own. Harris has performed miracles compared to the last regime, spent a lot of money. He will not have liked being embarrassed on national tv.....multiple times this year!

 

[Discobob]

That's one of my biggest fears with the bromance Quinn and peters developed.

Will peters have the balls to force changes that Quinn doesnt want?

I agree with this, I'm concerned that going full ruthless on the coaching staff is not in Quinn's DNA. I loved the Quinn vibes last year, but vibes doesn't always work... sometimes you need a hardass

 

[NickyJ]

Im thinking at some point Harris will not stand pat if AP doesn't act on his own. Harris has performed miracles compared to the last regime, spent a lot of money. He will not have liked being embarrassed on national tv.....multiple times this year!

I would be beside myself if Harris involves himself in the management of the team before his third season ends. We just escaped an overbearing owner who inserted himself into the management of the team. I'd have to think long and hard about whether I'd want to waste more time being a fan of the team going back into the 30 years of madness we were praying to be rid of.

 

[Single-Bar Facemask]

6/7

Sorry, I couldn't help it. My middle-schooler would be so proud.