The Gruden Files - Year Two

RG3 did not regress under Gruden. He couldn't read defenses under Shanahan either. The Shanahans caught lightning in a bottle in 2012 with RG3, Morris, and that offense they ran, but that model was never going to be sustainable, even if RG3 hadn't hurt his knee against Baltimore.

I will never forget RG3 making Demarcus Ware look like a damn fool in that Dallas game on Thanksgiving, but eventually defenses figured out how to stop the lead-option by hitting the QB. That is why other teams stopped running it, other than for an occaisional change up. Shanny probably assisted RG3's downfall by playing him hurt, but RG3 has shown us many times that he's not a guy that's is going to stand in the pocket with presence and pick a defense apart. Cousins btw is starting to show those qualities.

I agree with McD5 that this season may turn out to have been a very good thing for RG3. He has had the benefit of watching what has worked and what hasn't worked form the sideline. He is healthy now, and I would guess he is humbled and hungry for another chance after this whole experience.

I would not be shocked to see him have some success with another team next year, if that team is a run heavy/play action team that doesn't rely on him to win games with his pocket passing. I wouldn't even be surprised to see him improve his ability to read defenses and find the open guy, but I don't believe he is ever going to be a long term success as a pocket passer in the NFL. I just don't see it. We'll all find out soon enough, as he most definitely will get an opportunity somewhere next year. I have a feeling it will be with Dallas.
 
I'll just add that I don't believe Gruden really mishandled the situation with RG3. Yeah he threw him under the bus a little by calling him out to the press, but clearly he felt that RG3 had that coming. We were getting reports from all over about RG3 being a prima donna and very selfish.
 
Why does this team come out of timeouts without a clue what to do? What are they taking about? Dinner plans? What their kids got for Christmas? What the cheerleaders are wearing? Because they aren't talking about football. That end of the half debacle should have never happened. It could have all been on Cousins, but the coaches have to tell him what to do. Their is no reason for that to happen. From the spike to the kneel. Just poor poor coaching again.

Still a 2nd half to go, but just poor coaching there to even allow that to happen.


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NFC East title in year two.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
 
Just keep remembering this: Young learning team. Coaches and players alike. We've had a long list of items to sort out and we've check a lot of them off the list. Winning consecutive games. Playing well on the road. Winning games during national prime time. Beating teams we should beat. Gruden has improved a lot this year and still has room to grow. No reason to expect he won't. One thing you can bank on. Teams mimic their Coach. I like this teams attitude and demeanor. For the first time in forever, we are overcoming gaffs and shortcomings, and a lot of that is attitude imparted by the HC>
 
Kel Varnsen said:
Why does this team come out of timeouts without a clue what to do? What are they taking about? Dinner plans? What their kids got for Christmas? What the cheerleaders are wearing? Because they aren't talking about football. That end of the half debacle should have never happened. It could have all been on Cousins, but the coaches have to tell him what to do. Their is no reason for that to happen. From the spike to the kneel. Just poor poor coaching again.

Still a 2nd half to go, but just poor coaching there to even allow that to happen.


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kirk didn't want to run up the score on them
 
9-7 in his second year.

Losing regulars left and right but got guys off the street and draft picks to step up and perform and won the East.

Overseen the development of Cousins and he got better and better as the season went on.

Still alot of work to do but the man has coached us to a division title and a home playoff game.

That's pretty good in my book.

Kudos to McD5 for standing his ground on Jay and to Boone for always keeping the faith.

Next week: Gravy to go on the biscuit in the form of a home playoff game!
 
Thanks Diesel. But I'm pretty convinced that our season is just getting started. I'm sure that Gruden is just dying for a rematch against Carolina. And we're going to win that game.
 
McD5 said:
Thanks Diesel. But I'm pretty convinced that our season is just getting started. I'm sure that Gruden is just dying for a rematch against Carolina. And we're going to win that game.
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Love the optimism, but I hope no one in the locker room shares your POV. GB has looked bad this year of late, but if you don't fear A-Aron, you haven't been watching football the last ten years. I think GB is a really nice matchup for us, but I am in no way predicting a route or a cakewalk.
 
The season started off really shaky, and Gruden was the primary reason... I'd say he has acquitted himself as the season has gone along, but I still doubt whether he can be better than a Norv Turner type of coach in the NFL. I think realizing he needed more help on offense and bringing in Callahan & Cavanaugh probably had a huge impact on the season.

NFL teams grade their performance in quarters, so I'd give Gruden the following grades over the course of the season:

1st quarter - D+ - After a solid start, the team looked to be committed to a solid running game. They never got that back and started 2-2
2nd quarter - D+ - The schedule was much more difficult, but they didn't play very well. They basically played 1 half of great football against the Buccaneers (who continually shot themselves).
3rd quarter - C - Very inconsistent performances... You smash the Saints, then get smashed by the Panthers, then beat the Giants & lose to the Romo-less Cowboys. I'm being kind giving them a C here.
4th quarter - A - 4 wins against bad opponents, but they looked good in each game.

Anyway, I'll give them a C+ overall... However, I won't argue if people want to give them a B.

I still think the coaching staff needs work... Barry is NOT a good DC...
 
Gruden has had a very, very good regular season. It looks phenomenal compared to last season's botched abortion. He ended last season in a "What's the Difference" three way tie with Spurrier, Zorn, and himself. Nowhere to go but up. And up he went. He no longer looks lost all the time. He got better at managing the clock, though there is still room for improvement. He didn't show signs of quitting, like he did at times last year. (He still doesn't strike me as an Alpha) He got better at handling the media. His coaching hires have all worked out. Doubt he came up with the list all by himself, but he must get credit for the hires. Barry, with less talent, more injuries, and a new system, has had his group be the best/most consistent unit on the team throughout the season. The offense only really started coming on in the second half of the year. And even so, it's still not certain just how good it is.

Gruden has proved that, against sub .500 teams, with all of our weapons healthy, when the opposing defense does exactly what they practiced for all week, and then doesn't make effective in game adjustments, "Gruden's offense" is awesome. The next step in his growth will be to discover the use of a "Plan B". Cause so far, he hasn't shown any indication he even knows what one is. If he doesn't get better at adjustments on the fly, he'll stay stuck in the "Only Marginally Better Than Norv Turner" slot.

For this week coming up, he needs to break the streak of dismal showings by his offense's in the playoffs.

I believe he/the team will.

I believe we have a legit shot at hosting the NFC Championship game, against Seattle.
 
I think Ax's assessment is pretty fair. Gruden is so far much better than Zorn or Spurrier. For a young coach working for Snyder that's a big deal, honestly. I was afraid we'd be doomed to either old-coach-who-had-success-with-another-owner-and-now-wants-total-control or new-coach-Snyder-can-walk-all-over-and-cant-win-that-way. Gruden is neither of these, and that by itself is a HUGE improvement and a very good sign.

That said, our coaching staff really needs to improve their in-game adjustments. It's almost a given that the opposing team is going to have at least one fantastic quarter against us. Unless we have a 21 point lead heading into the second half I get pretty worried. That needs to stop. You can't get through the playoffs that way.

Also, I'd like to see us run the ball more effectively going forward. I know Alfred Morris has lost a step and looks confused and just plain stinks now, but that's not it. Nobody on this team is running effectively. The line doesn't run block effectively. The coaches don't run scheme effectively. Fortunately Cousins is playing out of his mind right now so we're getting away with it, but again, we can't get through the playoffs that way. The run game has to improve, and it's not just a matter of replacing Morris.

Overall, I give Gruden a solid B so far. The team has, in my opinion, improved over the course of the season to the point where now it is playing well above it's talent level. That's good coaching. If some of these other issues can be addressed over the next few weeks and the offseason I think our future looks brighter than it has in a long while. At least since 2012 before everything went straight to hell. :)
 
GSF said:
RG3 did not regress under Gruden. He couldn't read defenses under Shanahan either.
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He needed development as a professional NFL QB, and Gruden didn't invest the time developing him for whatever reason. I'll accept the excuse/fact that RGIII was injured, but he definitely did not progress under Gruden. His 2012 was awesome, his 2013 was disappointing relative to his 2012 (he missed all offseason with knee)... However, Cousins wasn't an upgrade when he came in the last 3 games of the season either and lost the starting job. In 2014 (new offense), RGIII got injured his 2nd game & Cousins was benched for Colt McCoy. RGIII came back for the Minnesota game and had a relatively good game, but was benched after 2 bad games for Colt McCoy (Gruden's favorite)... Colt McCoy had an injured neck, but Gruden decided he wanted to play him against the Giants anyway (this is pretty much where Gruden lost me completely). McCoy lasted a few minutes and then RGIII finished the rest of that season. That's basically the last snap RGIII took in a regular season game. Let's not rewrite history here.

Cousins was a pro-style QB in college... He had more offseason work that wasn't interrupted by injury than RGIII did. He was also benched twice... FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO READ DEFENSES. The first 7 games of the season, every argument people had in terms of being patient & developing Kirk Cousins also could've been said in favor of RGIII.

The ONLY reason our QB is Kirk Cousins right now and not RGIII is because of the injuries to Robert... Anyone who says otherwise is just rewriting history or has selective memory loss.
 
Smoot Point said:
He needed development as a professional NFL QB, and Gruden didn't invest the time developing him for whatever reason. I'll accept the excuse/fact that RGIII was injured, but he definitely did not progress under Gruden. His 2012 was awesome, his 2013 was disappointing relative to his 2012 (he missed all offseason with knee)... However, Cousins wasn't an upgrade when he came in the last 3 games of the season either and lost the starting job. In 2014 (new offense), RGIII got injured his 2nd game & Cousins was benched for Colt McCoy. RGIII came back for the Minnesota game and had a relatively good game, but was benched after 2 bad games for Colt McCoy (Gruden's favorite)... Colt McCoy had an injured neck, but Gruden decided he wanted to play him against the Giants anyway (this is pretty much where Gruden lost me completely). McCoy lasted a few minutes and then RGIII finished the rest of that season. That's basically the last snap RGIII took in a regular season game. Let's not rewrite history here.

Cousins was a pro-style QB in college... He had more offseason work that wasn't interrupted by injury than RGIII did. He was also benched twice... FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO READ DEFENSES. The first 7 games of the season, every argument people had in terms of being patient & developing Kirk Cousins also could've been said in favor of RGIII.

The ONLY reason our QB is Kirk Cousins right now and not RGIII is because of the injuries to Robert... Anyone who says otherwise is just rewriting history or has selective memory loss.
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Are we really discussing this, again? I mean seriously...if you cannot see that RG3 needs about 3 more seasons on the bench learning a good system like the one Andy Reid runs, that would cater to his talents as a mobile QB without sending him running at the first hint of pressure, then you're not really looking.

I mention a great pocket awareness play from Cousins yesterday and you discount it, but the reality is Griffin never showed the ability to make such a move. He would have run scared, probably fumbled the ball and got a phantom concussion trying to recover his own fumble. We don't have 3 more years to develop him,and shouldn't. He had 2 off seasons to take control of his own destiny under Gruden and couldn't. The fact that people like you still argue he wasn't given a proper chance is laughable, absolutely laughable! Why has Cousins succeeded under this offense with the same amount of time? Yes, he was benched last year, but he took the off-season to hire Jon Gruden to help him develop...meanwhile RG3 worked on his workout warrior brand on social media...and you suggest he wasn't given enough time?
 
Griffen is the one that couldn't read defenses. Kirks problem is he would try to get 30 yards when no play was there verses living to fight another down. Almost every offensive player on the team went up to Gruden after the first preseason game and asked him to switch QB. When Griffen went down in the second game he was confronted again.
Colt was cleared by the medical staff to play in that Giants game last year
 
Before Griffen was drafted Shanahan said it would take 3-4 years to develop Griffen as a pocket passer. When Gruden was hired he said the same thing.
Griffens benching has actually helped him as he is asking questions about defenses in the film room and staying longer to study them.
It wasn't Shanahans record that got him fired when he sat down with Snyder he told him he was going to start cousins in2013
snyder wanted Griffen to start
 
Elephant said:
Are we really discussing this, again? I mean seriously...if you cannot see that RG3 needs about 3 more seasons on the bench learning a good system like the one Andy Reid runs, that would cater to his talents as a mobile QB without sending him running at the first hint of pressure, then you're not really looking.

I mention a great pocket awareness play from Cousins yesterday and you discount it, but the reality is Griffin never showed the ability to make such a move. He would have run scared, probably fumbled the ball and got a phantom concussion trying to recover his own fumble. We don't have 3 more years to develop him,and shouldn't. He had 2 off seasons to take control of his own destiny under Gruden and couldn't. The fact that people like you still argue he wasn't given a proper chance is laughable, absolutely laughable! Why has Cousins succeeded under this offense with the same amount of time? Yes, he was benched last year, but he took the off-season to hire Jon Gruden to help him develop...meanwhile RG3 worked on his workout warrior brand on social media...and you suggest he wasn't given enough time?
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and Griffin never had a decent O-line to work with. it's more complicated than this. eh. he's been a good teammate this season. I hope he finds a good team next season and comes back as a superior QB in this league.
 
fansince62 said:
and Griffin never had a decent O-line to work with. it's more complicated than this. eh. he's been a good teammate this season. I hope he finds a good team next season and comes back as a superior QB in this league.
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I think his indecisiveness and ability to hold onto the ball to long made the lines look even worse
 
Griffin was never coddled/protected from himself by Gruden, like Gruden coddled/protected Cousins early in the first half of the season.

And even if it does take Griffin 3yrs to learn the pocket game, he'll only be 27. I still hope somehow it happens here. I'd like to see all 3 QB's back next year. Unless they want to replace Colt with a young recruit. Play dictating the starter.

Griffin, going anywhere else and being successful, will count as a monumental failure by the organization. With Gruden shouldering a lot of the blame.
And, total failure by Griffin, on another team, will be complete vindication for Gruden.
 
tr1 said:
Well, you know, time will tell when he's on another team.

In the meantime, he's a Redskin, and I don't kick players on my team when they're down.
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so speaking the truth is kicking him when he is down?
 
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