The Gruden Files - Year Two

Chris said:
Gruden's not gonna repair shit with Griffin. He's had no interest in him since day 1. I bet if you could get him alone in a private moment and he'd be honest he would say that getting him to the bench permanately is his greatest accomplishment here.
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Yep, I tend to agree. That's why I think Kirk continues to start for a while, and we ultimately switch to, and finish with McCoy at some point.

And then blow the whole ****ing position up in the off season.

Along with the coach.

Yay. Won't that all be fun?
 
tr1 said:
He's serviceable if he isn't called upon to win a game with his arm.

What's his W/L and TDs/INTs comparisons?

He's in his third year.

What is different about him? He went to Gruden's brother's qb school. Obviously he's now a better qb!

Kirk is a nice guy, not a leader and plays adequately when not under the spot light.

There's really nothing that's changed.
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He hasn't had a season of consistent starts to work through weaknesses, tendencies, etc... We'll see this year but taking his worst performance and holding that up as him as a finished product isn't reasonable. Maybe he'll never improve and maybe he'll dramatically improve - that's what we are waiting to see. If you don't want to wait and feel better pretending you already know, good for you.


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tr1 said:
But, why are we stuck with Kirk? Well, we didn't draft or trade for a qb because somebody thought the three we have would be sufficient to show some improvement.

Whoever made that decision is on the hook.
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More assumption stated as fact. There may have been lots of reasons other than the one so clear to you why we didn't draft QB. They weren't impressed with the available guys ...they were impressed but didn't want to make a deal to move up....or better talent to fill numerous other needs was there.

You want to chalk the decision to focus on positions other than QB to represent some misguided belief in any of the current 3 because it allows you to continue your snarky, smug mocking of every decision this front office makes.

But you have no more idea what drove those decisions than anyone else does.



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This team, like I said before, is not built to come from behind. Gruden found a formula to win, that is successfully running the ball, time of possession, and play with a lead. Once again, when we went down in the first quarter, I knew we were toast. Its the same offense as last year fellas. We must play our own way and keep Kirk from having to put the team on his shoulders. He can't do that, and no one on this board has ever said that we was supposed to be the guy to do that. He's not a miracle worker, but the only way we win games this year is milk a lead, run the ball and play a dam near perfectly executed game (no penalites or turnovers). That is our formula for success. A thin margin for sure, but its all we can hang our hat on.
 
Boone said:
He hasn't had a season of consistent starts to work through weaknesses, tendencies, etc... We'll see this year but taking his worst performance and holding that up as him as a finished product isn't reasonable. Maybe he'll never improve and maybe he'll dramatically improve - that's what we are waiting to see. If you don't want to wait and feel better pretending you already know, good for you.
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Boone,

Since when does a QB who has had three years NFL experience need starts to iron out his game? The only QBs who really get afforded such patience are rookies drafted by terrible teams who 'get thrown to the wolves' and get to take some lumps while the team is built around them. Guys who sit on the bench for a few years are expected to come in and actually know how to play in the NFL.

Cousins is NOT a rookie. He's had the luxury of what most young QBs entering this league don't get anymore. He's been given years to observe and study the game at the NFL level, and even had a chance to play. If he's going to be a starting-quality QB, he should be looking like one by now. We just can't wait until the guy is 30 before we find out if all that extra seasoning has had a chance to take hold.

I agree that he should be allowed to finish this season but I would be shocked (pleasantly) if he suddenly became a player now that he hasn't been so far. He's not new around here. Any player who's been on the team for years should be able to come in and start immediately, or he isn't a starter.
 
Henry said:
Boone,

Since when does a QB who has had three years NFL experience need starts to iron out his game? The only QBs who really get afforded such patience are rookies drafted by terrible teams who 'get thrown to the wolves' and get to take some lumps while the team is built around them. Guys who sit on the bench for a few years are expected to come in and actually know how to play in the NFL.

Cousins is NOT a rookie. He's had the luxury of what most young QBs entering this league don't get anymore. He's been given years to observe and study the game at the NFL level, and even had a chance to play. If he's going to be a starting-quality QB, he should be looking like one by now. We just can't wait until the guy is 30 before we find out if all that extra seasoning has had a chance to take hold.

I agree that he should be allowed to finish this season but I would be shocked (pleasantly) if he suddenly became a player now that he hasn't been so far. He's not new around here. Any player who's been on the team for years should be able to come in and start immediately, or he isn't a starter.
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Let's be fair here Henry. A week or so ago you were chiding ME for referencing 3 years of starts for Griffin. You were pretty animated about it. Now that we're talking about Cousins, it's suddenly all about him and his '3 years of NFL experience'? Which is it? There are folks here who are STILL arguing that Griffin can still be salvaged and that they'd prefer he get additional chances to grow, and he's had 3x the number of game starts Cousins has had.

I'm not saying I believe in Cousins. I'm saying he's had 3 starts in 2015. In those 3 2015 starts he's had one good game, one very good game, and one horrific game (those are my assessments). The only 2015 start in which Kirk can be blamed for a loss was last night's. Yeah, he's got a history with this team, and yeah (like all of them for the 2 most recent seasons) it's not pretty. But in 2015, he's screwed the pooch in exactly one game. If he continues to do that, I'll be right there embracing miserable reality with the rest of you all. But he deserves a season to show what he can do. And the idea that 'we know who he is' after less than a full season of starts in his NFL career - I think it's a flawed vantage point. You said 'Any player who's been on the team for years should be able to come in and start immediately, or he isn't a starter' - what??? Really??? So any backup (and that's what he's been, for ummm, most of 3 years) should be able to start immediately? What does that even mean. Few backups are going to come in and light it up, seize the undeniable mantle of starter, and thrive without some bumps along the way.

What you guys seem to be saying is, they are only 'bumps along the way' if he improves and turns out to be a legitimate starter, but we don't seem to be willing to give him the opportunity to demonstrate whether he can or can't improve. It's certainly safe for everyone here to say 'he's not going to be the guy' - because the truth is, very few NFL QBs turn out to be 'the guy'. I'm not arguing he IS the guy. I'm saying we don't yet know.
 
Boone...that's not quite accurate. there is a pattern. sure...more time on station. ok. but that doesn't negate what we have seen over time and this season. I was noting during preseason how I thought his accuracy wasn't all it could be and that he had a tendency to throw into double coverage at times.

there's a spectrum that falls between "never touched an NFL starter position" and "very experienced". Kirk Cousins doesn't fall at either end of the spectrum. that means there are some things he can reasonably be expected to be adept at.

this may be one of those deals where an opposing team (the gints) just has the QBs number and he'll never win against them. let's hope this table is flipped and Kirk's fortune vis the iggles continues to be just the opposite.
 
Griffin's situation is completely different than that of Cousins. If you want to go over the differences again we can, but I'm not sure that's going to accomplish anything at this point.

I would say in his three starts Cousins has looked like a bus driver in all three. If the bus stalls, so does he (week one). If the bus hums, so does he (week two). And if the bus heads off a cliff, so does he (week three). And in every single game this season, he has at least once thrown the ball directly at a defender deep in our own territory. I think he's been VERY consistent in that regard this season, and I expect it will continue that way for the rest of the season.

Yes, I do think there is a difference between a guy who has been in the league for three years and a rookie. I don't think a veteran (and that's what Cousins is) should get as much leeway as a straight-up rookie. I don't care how many starts you get. If you spend years playing and practicing and scheming with the pros, eventually you can either play with them or you can't.

Could Cousins improve some over the season? I guess. I'd say it's just as likely he'll decline a little once teams collect a decent enough amount of film on the guy and start really game-planning for him. Again, backups usually look better in spot-duty than they do as starters, and not the other way around. But we'll see. There's always a chance.
 
The only one who has used the word 'rookie' in this conversation is you H. There is also a difference between a guy who has been a starter for several seasons and a backup with some starting experience.


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Boone said:
The only one who has used the word 'rookie' in this conversation is you H. There is also a difference between a guy who has been a starter for several seasons and a backup with some starting experience.
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Yes, one of them is a starter.

Sorry. I'm done. :)
 
He has had some of his worst performances against the Giants-maybe they know how to rattle him or bring out the worst in him, I don't know.:dizzy2:
 
Turning back to Gruden (since we're here in the, you know, Gruden thread ;) ) ...

As big as the Philly game is going to be for Kirk's early career arc, it may be just as big for the HC. He was just starting to change the dialogue about him after the first two games---physicality, accountability, adaptability---and then the team stepped in NYC dogshit again and it's as if the offseason and first two weeks never happened.

If Scot saw last night as a failure on Gruden's part, be it in terms of strategy, getting his team emotionally and mentally "ready to play," or in-game management, he'll be watching closely for indications Gruden is able to rally his team from a bad night at the office and wrestle the train back onto the tracks.
 
Om said:
Turning back to Gruden (since we're here in the, you know, Gruden thread ;) ) ...

As big as the Philly game is going to be for Kirk's early career arc, it may be just as big for the HC. He was just starting to change the dialogue about him after the first two games---physicality, accountability, adaptability---and then the team stepped in NYC dogshit again and it's as if the offseason and first two weeks never happened.

If Scot saw last night as a failure on Gruden's part, be it in terms of strategy, getting his team emotionally and mentally "ready to play," or in-game management, he'll be watching closely for indications Gruden is able to rally his team from a bad night at the office and wrestle the train back onto the tracks.
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Is it then plausible that the Giants game may be looked at from the perspective of it being a "stumble" or "glitch" in what otherwise seems to be an upward turn in coaching?

No agenda at all here, just a question for my own clarification.
 
Most teams have a bad game, they move on to the next week. It was a bad game. But for our team, every move, every word said, every win or loss, they all have earth-shattering consequences that foretell the future somehow. It's ridiculous. We may well be one game - that's ONE GAME - out of first place after this weekend.


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Serv,

In terms of Scot's evaluation, I'd say absolutely. Fans? A whole 'nother question.

On Scot, though, we don't know what his real feelings on Gruden are at this point, so we're throwing blind darts.

For all we know, he could already have decided Jay is not his guy, and is just using this year to evaluate players in order to get a feel for what his next HC should be all about.

Or ... he could be totally on board with Jay, and already know that Jay can't win with the QB's at his disposal this year, so he's using this year to evaluate players and assistant coaches and scouts and everything else and burning many a late-night hour watching films of college QB's out there looking for the QB he can plug in next year.

Or ... he could actually BE evaluating Jay, and will view the Philly game coming up as a good bit of evidence as to how he is able to get his team back on track after an ugly, dispiriting loss.

So at least we know a little about how little we actually know.
 
Gruden has shown he is clueless and does not know how to adjust on the fly or stick to a game plan.

You come off a dominating running win and then run it 17 times total between both running backs? Purely an idiots move.

We lost bad. There is nothing else to say.

Cousins throws rainbows and looks like he's scared every time he's out there. At least Robert would attempt to get the ball there with some zip on it.
 
Blah blah blah


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Just ensuring I put the same high quality brain power into my posts that others do.


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