The Front Office: Adam Peters and Roster Construction

[KDawg]

Here’s the thing - I don’t know where the relationship with Deebo stands. I’m sure it’s okay, and he could be a realistic option. Which would be good because I think adding him along with one other receiver transforms the room from UFL to NFL.

But I’d have already signed him. No need to wait. My guess is he is waiting to see where he can get the biggest opportunity. So he needs to see what else we do.

 

[Commander Wraith]

Here’s the thing - I don’t know where the relationship with Deebo stands. I’m sure it’s okay, and he could be a realistic option. Which would be good because I think adding him along with one other receiver transforms the room from UFL to NFL.

But I’d have already signed him. No need to wait. My guess is he is waiting to see where he can get the biggest opportunity. So he needs to see what else we do.

I wonder about his fit with Blough’s offense. With Kliff, the gadget guy was a considerable piece - Deebo over Dyami was sort of a no brainer.

I think you and I both mentioned recently that we could really use a possession guy (a quick separator, adept vs man) and a deep threat… and it seems to me Deebo isn’t really either of those exactly. I’m far from an authority on the subject though, lol.

 

[burgold]

I don’t see the addition of Deebo as a mistake. It wasn’t a wasted year until it was. He was brought in to be an additional weapon, not to be the main one for an extended period of time due to injuries to Terry and Noah.

In hindsight it was a mistake because it was a wasted year. I don't disagree that it could have worked out. Sadly, it didn't and we would have benefitted from the pick versus the year of production he gave us. We benefit from knowing how everything played out. Heck, without Deebo we may have lost another game or two which would have been ironically useful.

The only reason Tunsil was a good trade was because we re-signed him. If we hadn't that would have also been a waste of resources in a wasted year.

 

[Chris]

In hindsight it was a mistake because it was a wasted year. I don't disagree that it could have worked out. Sadly, it didn't and we would have benefitted from the pick versus the year of production he gave us. We benefit from knowing how everything played out. Heck, without Deebo we may have lost another game or two which would have been ironically useful.

The only reason Tunsil was a good trade was because we re-signed him. If we hadn't that would have also been a waste of resources in a wasted year.

You don’t have the benefit of making a trade using hindsight. The trade was not a mistake.

 

[burgold]

I disagree. If for no other reason, plenty of people questioned it in real time. Deebo's decline and injury history made many worried about trading any resources for him. And sure you can you use hindsight!!! Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We should always evaluate every move both in isolation and with the advantage of knowing how everything worked out.

It was an understandable trade from Peters' perspective, but I think it was a mistake. There were equal or better players he could have gotten on the free agent market without trading a pick.

 

[Chris]

I disagree. If for no other reason, plenty of people questioned it in real time. Deebo's decline and injury history made many worried about trading any resources for him. And sure you can you use hindsight!!! Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We should always evaluate every move both in isolation and with the advantage of knowing how everything worked out.

It was an understandable trade from Peters' perspective, but I think it was a mistake. There were equal or better players he could have gotten on the free agent market without trading a pick.

I couldn’t possibly disagree more but I’m also not going to beat a dead horse after the fact. And, no, the trader can’t use hindsight before the trade, doesn’t work that way.

As an example, I hated the Lattimore trade in real-time as it happened and was immediately vocal about that. If I could see the numerous problems with it well paid professionals should easily see them. It was a wing and a prayer trade. Deebo for a 5th? Not a high price. The fact that circumstances would change drastically for the season could not have been foreseen.

 

[NickyJ]

Deebo was traded for as a weapon for Kingsbury. Within a year, both the weapon and Kingsbury are gone. Everything about the Commie's offense has been wonky. Quinn hired an OC who called plays that Quinn didn't like. Quinn doubled down on the OC he didn't appreciate by trading assetts for a player wanted by seemingly nobody on the team except the OC who is now fired.

Deebo has my utmost respect. He came, he played, he didn't cry about things going wrong and doing a job he wasn't supposed to do. But for the team to invest in a player whose only purpose was to be used exclusively by an OC that Quinn was perfectly happy to fire? That sours me on the trade. If the OC was on the hotseat and got fired after doing an okay job, they should never have invested longterm assets for the shortterm plan.

Even if Kingsbury wasn't on the hotseat, they still wasted a draft pick for the sake of a coach they fired so soon.

 

[Bulldog]

Deebo is going back in time.

Shanahan saw the decline in his big play ability and frequent injuries and let him go.

Signing Keenan Allen would do a lot more for the offense than Deebo.

He occasionally catches a ball more than 5-8 yards past the line of scrimmage 🙂

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I disagree. If for no other reason, plenty of people questioned it in real time. Deebo's decline and injury history made many worried about trading any resources for him. And sure you can you use hindsight!!! Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We should always evaluate every move both in isolation and with the advantage of knowing how everything worked out.

It was an understandable trade from Peters' perspective, but I think it was a mistake. There were equal or better players he could have gotten on the free agent market without trading a pick.

I haven't gone and looked at every 5th round pick.

It is possible, however, that in 2-3 years, Deebo's one season with the Commanders might still be the best season of any 5th rounder at any position in the draft. He had nearly 800 yards, was the #1 WR for several games, and would have been even better if literally the entire offense including WR1, Outside WR2 (Noah Brown) and the QB hadn't all missed at least 10 games.

You trade a 5th for an immediate impact starter at any position every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

5th round picks have like a 20% chance to be on the roster in 3 years. They're generally back of the roster special teamers who get replaced by the next 5th round pick special teamer. Maybe 10% turn into an average starter, and less than that turn into actual studs.

I'm not entirely sure who the equal or better players were. Most of the other guys available were head cases or really old. And by trading for Deebo, that didn't preclude them from still signing another guy.

The mistake was not Deebo. The mistake was re-signing always injured (that's why the Texans released him and we got him) Noah Brown and expecting him to be the starting WR opposite Terry to allow Deebo to do Deebo things. THAT was stupid. And I said so at the time.

The Deebo trade might be one of the best personnel moves Peters has made since he's been here.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

Here’s the thing - I don’t know where the relationship with Deebo stands. I’m sure it’s okay, and he could be a realistic option. Which would be good because I think adding him along with one other receiver transforms the room from UFL to NFL.

But I’d have already signed him. No need to wait. My guess is he is waiting to see where he can get the biggest opportunity. So he needs to see what else we do.

I think after they lost out on the top 2 WRs in FA, Pierce and Doubs, they decided they were just going to sign depth and wait for the draft.

There's no reason to sign Deebo now. Or Jennings. See what you come out of the draft with, and then you can choose who you want to go after and for how much. Nobody else is jumping to sign them, so they will be available.

 

[KDawg]

I think after they lost out on the top 2 WRs in FA, Pierce and Doubs, they decided they were just going to sign depth and wait for the draft.

There's no reason to sign Deebo now. Or Jennings. See what you come out of the draft with, and then you can choose who you want to go after and for how much. Nobody else is jumping to sign them, so they will be available.

The reason to sign them now is that you have them under contract when you add a rookie. More competition = less reason for a vet to sign with us if there are other options that meet the things they want/need.

So, I disagree.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

The reason to sign them now is that you have them under contract when you add a rookie. More competition = less reason for a vet to sign with us if there are other options that meet the things they want/need.

So, I disagree.

Which is fair.

EDITTED: I dunno. I kindof thing there's no reason to do anything now. I also was kindof stating the way that the team and NFL seem to be approaching it. But we can disagree. I wouldn't bother until after the draft. Then you might not need him at all. Maybe they draft Lemon, and you don't need Deebo but you do need Jennings. Shrug.

They're just sitting and waiting for the draft en mass.

 

[KDawg]

Which is fair.

EDITTED: I dunno. I kindof thing there's no reason to do anything now. I also was kindof stating the way that the team and NFL seem to be approaching it. But we can disagree. I wouldn't bother until after the draft. Then you might not need him at all. Maybe they draft Lemon, and you don't need Deebo but you do need Jennings. Shrug.

They're just sitting and waiting for the draft en mass.

I don’t understand how you look at our roster and think being passive is the answer. It’s honestly mind boggling.

That’s all we’ve done. It hasn’t worked.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I don’t understand how you look at our roster and think being passive is the answer. It’s honestly mind boggling.

That’s all we’ve done. It hasn’t worked.

I dont think they've been passive. They were very aggressive for the targets they coveted.

I would almost bet that the reason Deebo is not signed, has more to do with Deebo than it does us. He doesn't want to sign before the draft, because he wants to maximize his value. At this point he hasn't gotten what he apparently wants, so wait and see if his value goes up for a WR needy team who doesn't get the guy they wanted in the draft. Makes all the sense in the world for Deebo to wait, instead of 'settling' on a contract for us to potentially draft his replacement in a couple days.

 

[KDawg]

I dont think they've been passive. They've were very aggressive for the targets they coveted.

I would almost bet that the reason Deebo is not signed, has more to do with Deebo than it does us. He doesn't want to sign before the draft, because he wants to maximize his value. At this point he hasn't gotten what he apparently wants, so wait and see if his value goes up for a WR needy team who doesn't get the guy they wanted in the draft. Makes all the sense in the world for Deebo to wait, instead of 'settling' on a contract for us to potentially draft his replacement in a couple days.

They were aggressive and lost and now the answer is to be passive? I don’t know man, you guys aren’t swaying me here.

I do agree it has more to do with Deebo - my message has been pretty consistent: “we can talk about signing all of these dudes but they have to also want us”.

My point is, and we may be, but my point is we can’t be passive. There IS a fire. And we have to do something.

 

[DWinzit]

They were aggressive and lost and now the answer is to be passive? I don’t know man, you guys aren’t swaying me here.

I do agree it has more to do with Deebo - my message has been pretty consistent: “we can talk about signing all of these dudes but they have to also want us”.

My point is, and we may be, but my point is we can’t be passive. There IS a fire. And we have to do something.

I think it is more like they were aggressive with big swing and misses. They then go two singles in Van and Dyami, so not completely passive, more way too conservative if they are tthe answer. And yes, it is possible Deebo doesn't want to come back here and perhaps Jennings doesn't want to either who knows. It sure would be better having someone of that caliber signed since Aiyuk just isn't happening for a long time if at all

 

[Primus Porcus]

They were aggressive and lost and now the answer is to be passive? I don’t know man, you guys aren’t swaying me here.

I do agree it has more to do with Deebo - my message has been pretty consistent: “we can talk about signing all of these dudes but they have to also want us”.

My point is, and we may be, but my point is we can’t be passive. There IS a fire. And we have to do something.

No I'm not saying we should be passive, I agree with you that we still have a very big opportunity for an upgrade at that position. I'm just saying that it would make sense if these WRs that are walking the streets, are being advised by their agents not to sign any short term deals until AFTER the draft, because it's likely that the value of that offer can only go up. That if the offer is 1yr / $10m per year, then it's likely going to be the same after the draft , but if whatever team is offering isn't able to address the position in the draft, that number can jump a few million.

I think we should have signed Jennings weeks ago, if he was willing to put ink to paper. The cost to the team won't go down after the draft, it will either be the same, or go up.

 

[ES1974]

Very aggressive and missing out on key targets is not aggressive enough in my book.

AP should have absolutely gone all in on a couple more FA. He gets too much leeway.

If it’s a safe draft then he’s underwhelmed again.

Got to be some creativity and a couple of key acquisitions ahead.

 

[KDawg]

No I'm not saying we should be passive, I agree with you that we still have a very big opportunity for an upgrade at that position. I'm just saying that it would make sense if these WRs that are walking the streets, are being advised by their agents not to sign any short term deals until AFTER the draft, because it's likely that the value of that offer can only go up. That if the offer is 1yr / $10m per year, then it's likely going to be the same after the draft , but if whatever team is offering isn't able to address the position in the draft, that number can jump a few million.

I think we should have signed Jennings weeks ago, if he was willing to put ink to paper. The cost to the team won't go down after the draft, it will either be the same, or go up.

Right. Completely agree. I wouldn’t sign now if I was one of them.

But I find it funny that we as a fanbase (not necessarily individuals) think that once the draft is over we can sign any of these vets to round out the receiver room. No problemo.

The problem there is… these guys don’t have to sign with us. I’d have tried everything I could to get these guys in here (and again, we may have).

We have failed at receiver three years running. Time to ramp up our efforts to nuclear levels.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

No I'm not saying we should be passive, I agree with you that we still have a very big opportunity for an upgrade at that position. I'm just saying that it would make sense if these WRs that are walking the streets, are being advised by their agents not to sign any short term deals until AFTER the draft, because it's likely that the value of that offer can only go up. That if the offer is 1yr / $10m per year, then it's likely going to be the same after the draft , but if whatever team is offering isn't able to address the position in the draft, that number can jump a few million.

I think we should have signed Jennings weeks ago, if he was willing to put ink to paper. The cost to the team won't go down after the draft, it will either be the same, or go up.

Eh? Will it go up?

Let’s say there are 5 teams now that would like him and that dwindles to 3 after the draft because other teams get guys in the draft.

I’m not sure he doesn’t get a little desperate and takes a lower deal.

Also, I don’t think they want to sign him to a longer term deal until they know what they get in the draft.

Maybe it’s me. After round 2 of FA passes, I was fine with them waiting for the draft and then getting aggressive after it if needed.

Assuming they continue to be aggressive.

Overspending for an average player has never ended well.