The Free Agency Thread

[Primus Porcus]

So I was wrong... we apparently never made a formal offer.

That said, there is still a gray area here where the team could have been 'told' a number far above what he ultimately got, so they never even tried... but it's stlll interesting

 

[Bulldog]

My gut feeling is Curl and his agent were miffed Washington was not going to consider franchising him or coming to him before the end of the season with a multiyear offer and based on that and the state of the team during Curl's tenure here (mostly losing), he was looking for a change of scenery.

That's on his side. Whether DQ felt the Commanders could find a better fit at lower cost is another story and came after the team decided in 2023 not to resign him at that time before there was regime change.

I suppose also that Curl saw that Daron Payne was rewarded with a new contract while the team's sale was pending and overall the club was not spending money on free agents, etc.

 

[Boone]

Yeah, I got the feeling a while back that Curl's nose was out of joint. He and his agent clearly overestimated was his market and value were going to be. He almost had to take another team's offer even if it was roughly the same as what the team was willing to compensate him with. It's called 'pride' and we all have it.

 

[Bulldog]

he picked a solid organization to go to in the Rams.

not like he signed in Carolina strictly for the money and a chance to go 2-14

 

[Bulldog]

Washington signed 27 year old former Steelers corner James Pierre to a one year deal.

He went undrafted in 2020 and has been a regular contributor on special teams for the past 4 years.

He has 6 starts in 66 games.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

So I was wrong... we apparently never made a formal offer.

Keim reported prior to the FA period, the sides were talking. And I believe everything Keim reports, because he's generally not wrong about that.

I wonder if not only Curl has his nose out of joint, but they also somehow ticked off the Peters. It is possible prior to the FA period, they tried to reach some sort of verbal understanding, and when they weren't remotely close, it was kindof a "you're dead to me" situation.

It could have gone either, "We want a base of $10m, 4 years, 2 years guaranteed." and the team said, "Please feel free to test the market. If you get a good offer, let us know, we'd be happy to talk about it." And that clearly never happened.

Or it could have gone "We are around $4-5 million base salary, 1-2 years." And Curl's side said, "We think Kam is worth a lot more, we're going to test the market." And Peters and Co. said "Good luck with that."

In either scenario, I can't imagine a formal offer would have been exchanged prior to FA, because they weren't remotely close. Why do the paperwork?

And after the FA period began, and Kam just sat there, the team moved on.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I agree, i think there were conversations, but no 'formal' offer was made. There is a lot of gray area there.

We could have literally said "where you at?" and his agent says "$15 Mil" and we said, "not gonna happen"

No formal offer made, and the agent made it clear what they wanted... unfortunately now Kurl is acting like he was done wrong here, and he very well may have been.. but we likely will never truly know. I would have loved to keep him at the number he got... and I'm glad we didnt pay him top 5 safety money (as it's clear he wasn't garnering that value from the rest of the league either). Both can be true.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I agree, i think there were conversations, but no 'formal' offer was made. There is a lot of gray area there.

We could have literally said "where you at?" and his agent says "$15 Mil" and we said, "not gonna happen"

No formal offer made, and the agent made it clear what they wanted... unfortunately now Kurl is acting like he was done wrong here, and he very well may have been.. but we likely will never truly know. I would have loved to keep him at the number he got... and I'm glad we didnt pay him top 5 safety money (as it's clear he wasn't garnering that value from the rest of the league either). Both can be true.

I was less of a fan of Curl's than many. He had a good rookie season and he mostly knew where he was supposed to be. To some extent, he kept guys on the same page.

But the secondary has been, at times, putrid with him being a part of it. It's not like he solved all the communication problems. And yeah, part of that is on Jack and coaching.

But he didn't make plays, he didn't truly elevate everybody around him.

He's good. He's not great. He doesn't make plays.

Shrug. I'd have been fine if he came back. I also wasn't pining for him to return.

The defense was rotten to the core, and a big part of that was the secondary, which he was part of.

I think Kam benefited from, most of his tenure, being surrounded by a lot of incompetent play. So his competent play stood out as "hey, look at that! a guy who knows what he's doing!" And that elevated his status some.

 

[Primus Porcus]

there was a very clear change in the defense when he was on the field, even if it didnt show up in the stat line.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

there was a very clear change in the defense when he was on the field, even if it didnt show up in the stat line.

Yeah, but again, is that because he's "good" and the replacement player was terrible? Or is it because he was actually "really good?"

I tend more towards "good."

He's fine. I wish him well, but since we're kindof starting over, I didn't consider him a core guy they needed to build around.

 

[Boone]

Keim reported prior to the FA period, the sides were talking. And I believe everything Keim reports, because he's generally not wrong about that.

I wonder if not only Curl has his nose out of joint, but they also somehow ticked off the Peters. It is possible prior to the FA period, they tried to reach some sort of verbal understanding, and when they weren't remotely close, it was kindof a "you're dead to me" situation.

It could have gone either, "We want a base of $10m, 4 years, 2 years guaranteed." and the team said, "Please feel free to test the market. If you get a good offer, let us know, we'd be happy to talk about it." And that clearly never happened.

Or it could have gone "We are around $4-5 million base salary, 1-2 years." And Curl's side said, "We think Kam is worth a lot more, we're going to test the market." And Peters and Co. said "Good luck with that."

In either scenario, I can't imagine a formal offer would have been exchanged prior to FA, because they weren't remotely close. Why do the paperwork?

And after the FA period began, and Kam just sat there, the team moved on.

I think the element of 'cleansing' the squad is not getting enough attention. We don't know which players had attitude issues, negative mindsets, exhibited selfishness or inflexibility, but on bad teams that are poorly coached there is going to be some of that. The 'purge' has clearly been on this offseason. I'm sure they looked at Jeremy Chinn a player who is certainly as good, and probably better than Kam Curl and decided a fresh start would be a good thing. Chinn's numbers are very close to Curl's, but he does deliver the big hit and force fumbles, something Curl has never done.

 

[Bulldog]

True. This team really needed an exorcism after Snyder left. This is as close to an expansion team as the Nationals were in 2005 when they moved here from Montreal after trading away all of the prospects in their farm system.

Jimmy Johnson kept some core talents in Dallas in Michael Irvin, Jim Jeffcoat and Nate Newton but he turned over the roster 50% plus that first year.

Some of the guys were 'Landry' guys and didn't like Jones and the new regime. Others were overdrafted and simply not good enough coming off a 3-13 season, etc.

What those teams didn't have back then was analytics and a more integrated and data based approach to strategy. It was simply the 'eye' factor at work.

Perhaps Peters and Co. didn't want to give out any big contracts while they were starting to build this team back up and that sentiment was backed up by Shen and his group looking at comparative salaries for defensive positions and concluding that spending at the franchise tender level for a strong safety/hybrid was not a value play given the salary cap.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think the element of 'cleansing' the squad is not getting enough attention. We don't know which players had attitude issues, negative mindsets, exhibited selfishness or inflexibility, but on bad teams that are poorly coached there is going to be some of that. The 'purge' has clearly been on this offseason. I'm sure they looked at Jeremy Chinn a player who is certainly as good, and probably better than Kam Curl and decided a fresh start would be a good thing. Chinn's numbers are very close to Curl's, but he does deliver the big hit and force fumbles, something Curl has never done.

I know EB wasn't great at a lot of things. But there is a flip side: he came in and tried to bring accountability.

And received almost immediate pushback.

Yeah, he could have been more collaborative, and he probably went to far.

But even the team leaders sortof refused to buy into what he was selling.

One thing which struck me, EB was invited to go to the Chief's meetings before they played the Ravens in the playoffs. Mahomes, Kelce and others all said at times this year, they were missing the accountability he brought to their team, and the reporting was he was warmly received by the Chiefs.

They liked and missed their former coach, and appreciated the hard coaching.

Our team balked as early as training camp.

Yeah, the game planning and game calling wasn't great. But there wasn't a culture of hard work, accountability or winning in that locker room. That starts with Rivera, and trickled through the entire team.

So I'm fine with the "get out" except for a very few exceptions. They brought very few players back.

That was very intentional. They wanted to change the juju in the room.

 

[Boone]

I kind of got the impression EB invited himself to meet with Chiefs players but maybe that was wrong. I really don’t know what to make of EB. I have a gut feeling that how he portrayed himself in press conferences was a much more likable version of himself than he actually was in real life. I’m not sure I believe players respected him as much (even in KC) as we think and the Chiefs certainly didn’t seem to have much interest in bringing him back into the fold.

But regardless, I hate players whining and crying about staff no matter what the situation.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I kind of got the impression EB invited himself to meet with Chiefs players but maybe that was wrong. I really don’t know what to make of EB. I have a gut feeling that how he portrayed himself in press conferences was a much more likable version of himself than he actually was in real life. I’m not sure I believe players respected him as much (even in KC) as we think and the Chiefs certainly didn’t seem to have much interest in bringing him back into the fold.

But regardless, I hate players whining and crying about staff no matter what the situation.

I mean, he could be lying through his teeth, but this is what Mahomes said about the visit:

"It's always great to have EB be in the building, just being there and the energy that he brings and the mentality that he brings,'' Mahomes said. "He loves being there. He loves being a part of the team and being a part of that culture. So just having him back in the building was really cool, and listening to him talk and his energy ... I think guys had a little bit of chill bumps, like, 'Hey, we got EB's back here.'

Shrug. I almost always think the truth is somewhere in the middle. EB became a punching bag for a variety of reasons, most of which deserved.

But on the flip side, the team hadn't actually had any real discipline since Mike Shanahan was fired. And I'd even question some of that. You might have to go back to 2007 with Gibbs. Zorn had no ability to instill discipline or a work ethic. Jay was such an unbelievably disrespected moron of a leader one of his players actually gave him a purple nerple. I mean, can you imagine a player tweaking the nipple of any respected coach? Absolutely not.

And Ron just sortof was there. Scott Turner couldn't lead a HS marching band parade.

So EB tried to instill some things, and just about everything was met with resistance. I don't remember who it was, though if I had to bet it was Logan Thomas, who was irked they changed the off-day from Monday to Tuesday. (Or the reverse. I don't remember which, but it was flipped.)

Which isn't some crazy thing. That's actually the way the Chiefs run their schedule. Which probably is set by Andy Reid. EB copied it. Our nimrods complained. I'll take this opportunity to point out, even absent the success Reid has had with Mahomes, Reid owns the franchise win records for TWO teams, the Eagles and the Chiefs. Both of which have been around a hot minute. Clearly what he does works.

And our group of bozos rejected a change in off-days.

My general feeling towards just about all of them was "Get Out." Even Jon Allen irked me, who popped off several times. Be the change you want to see in the world. He had the opportunity as a leader. He didn't take it. I'm not suggesting they trade him. But the whole organization, from the plumbing to the team on the field was so broken, they could have cut everybody and torn down the stadium and played at a HS field and I wouldn't have cared so much.

 

[Chris]

It’s much easier to address a team as a visiting guest than it is to be tasked with transforming and leading an entirely new group in a struggling situation. Even harder still without being the top dog.

It became pretty clear that KC’s success had little to do with what EB brought to the table. He did give ‘good press conference’ though. So I give him that.

Even Charles Leno, who might be one of the nicest, smartest, and experienced players on the team, had serious misgivings about Bieniemy’s strategies when it came to scheme.

 

[Boone]

I don't think there's much disagreement Voice - except about how 'well regarded' EB was in KC. I don't believe players 'hated him' - he's a pretty likable guy from all that I can tell. But if Pat Mahomes (nevermind Andy Reid) thought he was some critical cog in the vaunted KC offense, he'd never have been allowed to come here and he'd have been snatched right back up after being let go in DC. And 'our group of bozos' was likely a group of 3 or 4 vocal idiots who've never known what winning looks like, nor what it takes to accomplish it - no doubt lead by chief loudmouth Logan Thomas. I, like you, was disappointed by Jon Allen who puts himself out there as a consummate leader type but chose to gripe more often than not.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I don't think there's much disagreement Voice - except about how 'well regarded' EB was in KC. I don't believe players 'hated him' - he's a pretty likable guy from all that I can tell. But if Pat Mahomes (nevermind Andy Reid) thought he was some critical cog in the vaunted KC offense, he'd never have been allowed to come here and he'd have been snatched right back up after being let go in DC. And 'our group of bozos' was likely a group of 3 or 4 vocal idiots who've never known what winning looks like, nor what it takes to accomplish it - no doubt lead by chief loudmouth Logan Thomas. I, like you, was disappointed by Jon Allen who puts himself out there as a consummate leader type but chose to gripe more often than not.

Clearly he wasn't a critical cog in the wheel in so far as they won the SB without him.

I have a bias to defend EB more than others, and I acknowledge that bias. I'm not sure why. Never met the guy. I don't even know if I would like him or not. Maybe. I think he was trying to be a desperately needed agent of change. But he failed. By all accounts, he needed Rivera to be somewhat like Reid, who kept him in check. And Rivera didn't. And that is one reason the whole thing fell apart. But EB also failed on his own accord. Miserably.

I think one thing is clear as day though: EB currently does not have the people skills to be a head coach in the NFL. It actually might work better in college. Who knows.

 

[burgold]

I get why one would root for and defend EB. He was a story of guy who ho made it and got overlooked. A guy never given his due or his chance. This multi-Super Bowl winner got it so bad that he felt his best opportunity was with the lamest of lame ducks who handed him an offense with neither an offensive line nor a proven QB.

EB was set up to fail, but there was still a chance he could prove the doubters wrong. That’s a great n underdog narrative to rally behind.

And for about six games or so He B almost pulled something special off. The NFL began highlighting Howell and pumping him up. The offense looked pretty good. If the D didn’t play like total crap you could imagine a miracle coming to fruition.

And then, it fell apart and EB’s warts grew more and more predictable. Almost as predictable as his play calling.

So yeah, I get wanting to root for EB. I even think he might have done something cool under different conditions.

Problem is, he didn’t. He was set up to fail and he did.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I also LOVE the Andy Reid offense. And have for decades. It’s an aggressive, pass first, creative, stretch the field horizontally and vertically, great uses of screens, and also manages to average high rushing yards.

It’s one of my favorite offenses. Based on the WCO system, off the Holmgren branch.

Part of the reason I was excited for the EB hire was I was hopping he could implement some version of that offense.

The problem is I think he tried to implement all of the Chiefs offense with a new team with an inexperienced QB. They needed to rely more on the quick pass and run game, and take pressure off the offense.

EB however didn’t seem to be able to connect to the players and explain what he was trying to do in a way they understood and bought into. Ultimately that’s a huge reason why he failed.

Also, Rivera basically ceded all control of the team and there was no checks and balances, and that was bad.

And he didn’t have any of his own coaches who knew his offense and could help teach it.

It was a complete **** show of a situation. Maybe somebody with better people skills could have navigated it better.

I actually cared less about the human interest side of the story. I kindof figured there was a reason he hadn’t gotten a HC job which wasn’t solely based on racial reasons.

I defend EB more than most because while he failed on his own accord, he got zero support from Rivera and the situation he was put in was terrible.