The Bombshell

I don't remember anyone describing it as shocking behavior. In fact, the vast majority have found it typical and not surprising in the least. What most have said is that the behaviors described are gross, inappropriate, and reprehensible.

I'm struggling to figure out why it's important for some of you guys to point out that sexual harassment is not unique and may be widespread? As Henry said - of course that is true. So what? This is our team, the one we've rooted for and financed most of our lives. We've had enough of the evil empire. And while we have little power over everywhere else in the world, if we want to howl at the moon and gnash our teeth over this latest embarrassment, that's what we're going to do, and we've earned that right 1000x over as fans. If you guys don't mean to minimize the nature of the behavior, then what is your point (that's not snark - that's an honest question?

As for the photo stuff, we're really not going to go there. I've been in most of those chats. I'd have preferred you didn't post those pics (just as we long ago banned those kinds of pics on the general site). But I don't think it was some ominous sin. I also don't recall a lot of 'locker room' talk when you did post them, but maybe my memory is selective. Is your posting cheerleader photos in chatroom and folks looking at them supposed to make us hypocrites? Are you equating that to what has reportedly been going on at Redskins Park for years? I would hope that's not your point.

Anyway - if you are angry about the position some of us have taken, or action taken against other members today, that's fine. But this isn't going to be some call out thread. If you need to repent, have at it. No one else needs to do a thing and if they do - that's their personal business.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
Rhiannon's story.
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Very powerful. I only wish I had a sliver of the courage she has, and that of all the people who spoke out and made this story possible. This is bigger than one sports franchise, this is about ending the harassment and abuse of all people by people who feel entitled to act with impunity.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
Did I ever reply to the cheerleader posts?
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You did, but I will say you never ogled and it was infrequent at the very most
Boone said:
I don't remember anyone describing it as shocking behavior. In fact, the vast majority have found it typical and not surprising in the least. What most have said is that the behaviors described are gross, inappropriate, and reprehensible.

I'm struggling to figure out why it's important for some of you guys to point out that sexual harassment is not unique and may be widespread? As Henry said - of course that is true. So what? This is our team, the one we've rooted for and financed most of our lives. We've had enough of the evil empire. And while we have little power over everywhere else in the world, if we want to howl at the moon and gnash our teeth over this latest embarrassment, that's what we're going to do, and we've earned that right 1000x over as fans. If you guys don't mean to minimize the nature of the behavior, then what is your point (that's not snark - that's an honest question?

As for the photo stuff, we're really not going to go there. I've been in most of those chats. I'd have preferred you didn't post those pics (just as we long ago banned those kinds of pics on the general site). But I don't think it was some ominous sin. I also don't recall a lot of 'locker room' talk when you did post them, but maybe my memory is selective. Is your posting cheerleader photos in chatroom and folks looking at them supposed to make us hypocrites? Are you equating that to what has reportedly been going on at Redskins Park for years? I would hope that's not your point.

Anyway - if you are angry about the position some of us have taken, or action taken against other members today, that's fine. But this isn't going to be some call out thread. If you need to repent, have at it. No one else needs to do a thing and if they do - that's their personal business.
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I am not coming to the defense of certain members who decided to cross a line drawn in the sand. They knew what their actions would get them. they're big boys, they can defend themselves.

I am speaking to the outrage I see by some who salivated over the images I used to post. Yes, I call the ones who "ogled" then, now express outrage over the sexual harassment of women, hypocrites. It just sounds like herd mentality, the social justice warriors coming out when in their own past they were guilty of some of the same actions that "outrage" them now.

And I'm tired of seeing mobs jump on people when it isn't warranted...and I saw it here today with Ryan. He simply expressed the news was not as "biblical" as what was suggested.

I don't care what anyone thinks, the term biblical was used by the media and as bad as the actions we've seen from this front office at this point, biblical would not be a term I think any of us would use.

But the mob saw that as Ryman trying to minimize the feelings of the women victimized, or that he perpetuated that behavior because he expected more from the sources calling it such a dramatic term. And I am not minimizing sexual harassment, I am simply stating it was not BIBLICAL news coming from the WP.
 
he was most certainly minimizing it with the "they do it, too". he came in like a knight in shining armor after getting an email from Al all pissed off and ready to tell people what he thought. that was his own doing.

a lot of people have used that lame duck excuse to try and minimize the actual charge of 15 women claiming sexual harassment as well as the cheerleaders bending over in front of the tunnels, pimped out, and asked to be topless.

it is pathetic.
 
Elephant said:
You did, but I will say you never ogled and it was infrequent at the very most
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I think there were two times in chat. No, I didn't ogle. True, it was infrequent. The only thing I recall saying is that I thought one or two of them was the kind of young woman I was attracted to back in the day. That was really about it.
 
If 'the mob' saw those posts as minimizing, perhaps it's because the words communicated that sentiment. As far as I know, there haven't been any meetings to discuss how to gang up on Ryman in order to promote the preferred social values :) As far as the over-hyping of the story, first of all, what's that got to do with anyone here? What's it got to do with anything? And as far as you know, there may be additional disgusting revelations coming. Remains to be seen. You need to stop with the photo stuff - first because you're the damn one who posted all those pics - folks had no choice but to look at them. If it makes you happy, I'll apologize for allowing you to post them. I hope that makes you feel better. But don't equate the two things. There's more than a little difference between admiring sexy photos of women, or even fantasizing about them - and cornering young women in work settings and talking about what you've got in your pocket, or how much you want to touch their ass, etc.. I'll agree that all men need to spend more time thinking about what it feels like to be objectified, receive unwelcome sexual attention, or to be in an abusive relationship. Here, there, everywhere.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
I think there were two times in chat. No, I didn't ogle. True, it was infrequent. The only thing I recall saying is that I thought one or two of them was the kind of young woman I was attracted to back in the day. That was really about it.
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I think this is very accurate.
 
I'm fairly certain I've been pretty consistent on this particular subject since I was in high school and my friends would call me 'Dad'.

I'm not naive. I think I know that athletes have groupies. That rich men have groupies. That that leads to a strong sense of entitlement amongst those types regarding women. That is a problem as well, but I don't think that's what we are talking about here.

We are talking, here, about the treatment of PROFESSIONAL women. Women who are not models who need to look good on the runway, or cheerleaders hoping to leverage their looks into some other career, or groupies who are looking to bag an athlete. We are talking about reporters and administrators and marketing coordinators. We are talking about regular old people, who are just trying to get by doing what they know how to do, and shouldn't have to deal with this shit.

We are talking about a systemic problem so big that on the eve of this supposed nothing-of-a-story emerged, minority owners were clamoring to sell, and three big names within the organization all unceremoniously removed themselves as quickly and quietly as possible. We are talking about not one or two, but 15 women coming forward to talk about things like a plexiglass staircase so men could look up their skirts. (Interesting aside: about a year after I left my last job, my former boss got arrested for trying to look up womens' skirts at a mall using a pen-camera. He went to jail for several years. At the time I considered that revelation a pretty big bombshell.)

But, most importantly (to me anyway) we are taking about yet another scandal in a long line of incidents, headaches and disasters that make up the steaming pile of crap called The Team Formerly Known as The Washington Redskins. That's what pisses me off the most. It's that Here We Are Again. I am utterly disgusted by what Dan Snyder has done to the most important team in the history of me. And he does it over and over and over and over ... and over again. I feel completely justified in screaming from the rooftops at this moment, and I don't feel on bit hypocritical about it.

Maybe I'll scream some more tomorrow too. Or I might just make myself a Gin-and-Tonic. I haven't decided yet. :)
 
Henry said:
Well, if that happens, just know that I'm coming back, and hell's coming with me. :)
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you gonna skin that smoke wagon or you just gonna stand there and bleed?
 
Boone said:
If 'the mob' saw those posts as minimizing, perhaps it's because the words communicated that sentiment. As far as I know, there haven't been any meetings to discuss how to gang up on Ryman in order to promote the preferred social values :) As far as the over-hyping of the story, first of all, what's that got to do with anyone here? What's it got to do with anything?
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Because that is what Ryan was trying to express, but no one was listening. You were all talking past him attacking him on a point that was missed. I saw what happened and he and I talked about what he was trying to express.

Boone said:
And as far as you know, there may be additional disgusting revelations coming. Remains to be seen. You need to stop with the photo stuff - first because you're the damn one who posted all those pics - folks had no choice but to look at them. If it makes you happy, I'll apologize for allowing you to post them. I hope that makes you feel better. But don't equate the two things. There's more than a little difference between admiring sexy photos of women, or even fantasizing about them - and cornering young women in work settings and talking about what you've got in your pocket, or how much you want to touch their ass, etc.. I'll agree that all men need to spend more time thinking about what it feels like to be objectified, receive unwelcome sexual attention, or to be in an abusive relationship. Here, there, everywhere.
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And there you go minimizing textbook sexual harassment. I equate them because that attitude of ogling over sexy pictures is what perpetuates the behavior we saw in Ashburn.

I did what I could to amend my part in it, but you minimize it all you want while you admonish Ryan for seemingly minimizing what those women experienced, even though it was obvious to me he wasn't.
 
Henry said:
We are talking about a systemic problem so big that on the eve of this supposed nothing-of-a-story emerged,
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And the straw man has been created!

This is so disingenuous that the rest of your post means little. At least be honest...NO ONE SAID IT WAS A NOTHING STORY!
 
Elephant said:
Because that is what Ryan was trying to express, but no one was listening. You were all talking past him attacking him on a point that was missed. I saw what happened and he and I talked about what he was trying to express.



And there you go minimizing textbook sexual harassment. I equate them because that attitude of ogling over sexy pictures is what perpetuates the behavior we saw in Ashburn.

I did what I could to amend my part in it, but you minimize it all you want while you admonish Ryan for seemingly minimizing what those women experienced, even though it was obvious to me he wasn't.
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Don't ever PM me again telling me what a great guy I am Brian - okay? I've been in Nursing Management for most of the past 30 years - all I deal with is young attractive women and I've never had a single issue or complaint because I am a consummate professional and I respect women. We are all human and sexuality is an integral part of that. That is not the same thing as sexual harassment and abuse.

The next time you have a problem with a post - report it.
 
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