Tech/Computer advice from me

[tshile]

please, let me know. because I just called them and asked them about upgrading a PC that has the "anytime upgrade" on it that failed and they told me specifically that "we want you to buy 8 Pro now"

How to downgrade from Windows 8

For a retail version of Windows 8
There are no downgrade rights for retail versions of Windows 8. If you upgraded Windows by using a retail version of Windows 8, you have to reinstall your earlier version of Windows by using the recovery or installation media that was included with your PC.

So I was wrong. OEM and volume licensing are the only things that have downgrade rights. That's a shame, though I understand why they're doing it.

Microsoft got real backwards with windows 7 because they kept giving in to the people that wanted to keep using XP. The result? Tons of XP devices out there that people refuse to upgrade, which is not what they want. So now they're going this route. So you can thank all the people that refused to move on to XP for putting us in a position where you're now required to move on to the latest OS :\

 

[tshile]

Might be worth just going to a Microcenter or similar store and just grabbing an OEM copy.

That won't work unfortunately.

Microcenter would be in big time violation for selling that without the machine, and a lot of OEM disks do hardware checks to verify it's being used on the computer it was designed for.

It actually looks like you can get some discs/product keys off Amazon.

 

[CounterTrey]

Heh...well I guess Microcenters everywhere are flaunting the law. You can buy legal OEM copies off the shelf for 100 bucks for 8 and IIRC about 80 for 7 and I've seen it at 3 different stores in 3 diff states. It's just OEM so no tech support, but still legal copies. No clue how they get around that but they aren't exactly doing it on the sly. No way Microsoft doesn't know about it.

 

[tshile]

Heh...well I guess Microcenters everywhere are flaunting the law. You can buy legal OEM copies off the shelf for 100 bucks for 8 and IIRC about 80 for 7 and I've seen it at 3 different stores in 3 diff states. It's just OEM so no tech support, but still legal copies. No clue how they get around that but they aren't exactly doing it on the sly. No way Microsoft doesn't know about it.

Ok, after some looking, it appears to be a loophole.

Technically buying OEM copies and using them for products that the OEM install was not originally designed for is against microsoft licensing. It appears Microsoft doesn't care enough to actually go after it though...

Original equipment manufacturer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Write up on it:
Is it OK to use OEM Windows on your own PC? Don't ask Microsoft | ZDNet

The installation media works almost exactly like a full retail copy of Windows, except that it can't be used to perform upgrades, only a custom (clean) install. After installation, an OEM copy is essentially indistinguishable from a retail copy.

Many readers tell me they bought that software and installed it on their own new (or old) PC, happily saving a significant chunk of change in the process. According to Microsoft, they are violating the terms of the OEM System Builder license agreement, which says, in convoluted language, that you must install the software using the OEM Preinstallation Kit and then resell the PC to a third party. If you install that software on your own PC, you don't have a "genuine" copy of Windows.

So Mike - that puts you in a tricky spot. Sounds like you could buy an OEM copy of 7 and get your clients upgraded to what they want, but technically you and they would be violating the licensing terms, which, again, is a tricky spot...

edit: Though you could easily get around it by taking the computer, using the system builder kit, and then 'selling' the computer back to your client for $1.

 

[CounterTrey]

Honestly I've even called Microsoft for things related to these OEM copies and gotten tech support on the phone. Their techs were pretty "meh" aboput it basically implying that they've been told to do what they feel is best. But there was never a threat about license infringement, just the threat of no tech support, which ya don't really need for yourself. What your end user ends up with though is they either have to pay a store for tech support or you, Microsoft won't do it (although as I said many of their techs seem to be willing to work with IT techs calling for a quick question). At least that's been my experience building and fixing machines the last 15 years.

 

[CounterTrey]

Actually I'm more on the web end. I was doing some IT tech stuff for years but got sick of working for doofuses ten years younger than me so I have gone back to school to get a degree in design/development (I'm a self taught PC guy). It's bit weird being 43 and in classes with 20 year olds but if I can get a better gig afterwards it'll be worth it. I just build and repair machines now by word of mouth so I do about 5 or 6 a month. The rest of my time is doing web and artwork and doing the stay at home dad thing. I have a nice home office/Redskins media room so I'm definitely set up for self employment. I also process electronic insurance claims for my dad's Periodontal practice in Alexandria.

edit: I guess my official IT background started when I did phone tech support for Bell South for a couple of years and then parlayed that into a few IT jobs with consulting firms. Mainly network administration and such.

 

[CounterTrey]

The one I keep bumping up against is being called "Mr. Gordon"...cripes kid I'm older but we're both adults here. Lose the Mister stuff!

 

[CounterTrey]

Yea that's right up there with any reference to the built in cup holder.

 

[tshile]

Yea that's right up there with any reference to the built in cup holder.

That's my favorite. I haven't actually dealt with that, but have heard the stories.

 

[tshile]

There's a big problem in IT - well a couple of big problems. I was talking to my wife about them last night...

Age - there's agism in the IT field. Like many -ism's, there's some truth and logic behind it, but it gets used as a stereotype and loses legitimacy and becomes discrimination. The end result is legit people not getting opportunities because of their age and that's unfortunate. The only way to fight it is to make sure you're on top of your game and are an expert in whatever IT field you're in - otherwise you're likely to be discriminated against. It's unfortunate and that's a tough standard to set, but it is reality; for now. I have a feeling we'll see a shift in the near future where knowledge and experience trump the stereotypes that revolve around age. It's just going to take some more data breaches, serious loss of data, and other catastrophes since the field doesn't seem capable of learning any other way than the hard way.

Certs - Too many people (employers) rely on certs. There are instances where they are needed. Getting certs can also fill in knowledge gaps for you, so they can be very useful and worth the money. They are not, however, a substitute for experience. Unfortunately not a lot of people understand that.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

"we have no internet"

"OK, did anything get moved or unplugged?"

"well, we unplugged the cisco box. would that do it?"

Damn, sounds like your users are worse than mine...

 

[tshile]

lol....how many geeks do we have on here?!!

what do you do?

A lot more than I originally thought. I first hought I was one of the only ones, hence me titling this thread this way. I've since learned I'm just one of many. Tried to get the title changed but was unsuccessful

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Jesus, I'm surrounded by IT!! Noooooooooo!



Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

 

[Fear The Spear]

I cannot in good conscious recommend you even continue to use XP. XP has been a highly targeted operating system since the early days and this has made it a prime candidate for malware research, testing, etc.

Really ? Because I heard the complete opposite, regarding older systems, in general.
I've heard some computer experts say that older OS's are actually much less vulnerable to attack, because most of the viruses coming out in the current time, are targeting the newer OS systems, at least in part, because of the higher volume of people using the newer OS's, so the better percentage of infecting or hacking them.

 

[CounterTrey]

I think he means in terms of an actual attack as opposed to the random self inflicted virus attacks. If someone's scanning for open ports and you have XP without any of the latest patches then you're basically a wide open door and next thing you know your IP and port settings are on some hackers list and you can kiss that machine goodbye without a clean wipe and upgrade.

 

[tshile]

Really ? Because I heard the complete opposite, regarding older systems, in general.
I've heard some computer experts say that older OS's are actually much less vulnerable to attack, because most of the viruses coming out in the current time, are targeting the newer OS systems, at least in part, because of the higher volume of people using the newer OS's, so the better percentage of infecting or hacking them.

Older OS's that aren't receiving security updates are more secure? No. Whatever expert is telling you that doesn't know what they're talking about. Sorry.

What is commonly said is that more obscure OS's are typically more secure - but not because the OS itself is secure, only because it is not popular enough to attract the attackers.

While most people think of XP as being stable in terms of their applications working, it has incredible and fundamental security issues. It was released in 2002 - when security was just a line item. Things have changed since then. Vista, 7, and 8 are leaps and bounds more secure (provided the end users don't turn off UAC and otherwise monkey with things they don't actually understand.)

The key to security is have a product that has a support team dedicated to finding and fixing security issues. XP no longer has that.

 

[Fear The Spear]

The key to security is have a product that has a support team dedicated to finding and fixing security issues. XP no longer has that.

So just to confirm what I'm hearing, and this is my novice side speaking, even if I stop using Microsoft Internet Explorer, I am still highly vulnerable to attacks, using another non-Microsoft browser like Firefox, as long as I have XP ?

 

[tshile]

So just to confirm what I'm hearing, and this is my novice side speaking, even if I stop using Microsoft Internet Explorer, I am still highly vulnerable to attacks, using another browser like Firefox, as long as I have XP ?

If you keep XP and switch to firefox, here's how you'll be in a nutshell.

Firefox will at least protect you with general web browsing. You'll be up to date, and that'll help.

The underlying OS will be vulnerable to whatever hackers/researchers discover once Microsoft stops issuing updates.

So if you download a malicious file and run it, it doesn't matter what browser you're using - the browser is out of the equation. It's the OS that matters and your OS is now unsupported and no longer 'up to date.'

But the browser should at least help protect you from drive by attacks when you visit a site that's trying to infect your computer. It'll help, but it wont be be 100% protection.

So, using firefox is better than using IE. But once you download a file and run it, the browser is no longer in the equation. Using Firefox will only help protect you against drive by attacks from infected websites you visit - and even then it'll only help, not totally protect you.

 

[Fear The Spear]

Got it. Thanks for the breakdown.

I may have to finally make Skinned Aussie happy, and finally install his highly-endorsed Ubuntu OS

 

[tshile]

Got it. Thanks for the breakdown.

I may have to finally make Skinned Aussie happy, and finally install his highly-endorsed Ubuntu OS

I like ubuntu. It's not my linux distro of choice, but your use is much different than mine, I think you'll like it.

You'll also find yourself in a pretty interesting world of free software Not all of it is free, but you'd be surprised how much you can get done for very cheap or free when you start using Ubuntu and its software center

Just make sure you back everything up before you switch!