Starting QB Options in 2019?

One of many experimental iterations ...

Which QB Starts the 2019 Season Under Center?

  • Case Keenum is our 2019 starter

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Case Keenum starts but is replaced by Haskins

    Votes: 9 75.0%
  • Case Keenum starts but is replaced by McCoy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Colt McCoy is our 2019 starter

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Colt McCoy starts but is replaced by Haskins

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Colt McCoy starts but is replaced by Keenum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dwayne Haskins is our 2019 starter

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • Dwayne Haskins starts but is replaced by McCoy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dwayne Haskins starts but is replaced by Keenum

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • All 3 QBs get starts in 2019

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

Fear The Spear

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Pete Hailey over on NBC Sports Washington broke the numbers down for you. :D

Here's what he said:

"23 passers have gone in the top half of the first round of the past 10 NFL drafts, like Haskins did this past April. But when did those franchises first turn to their prized, young prospects?

Here are the key takeaways from looking at that group's experiences and comparing when each got their chance to initially take over under center full-time (for a QB-by-QB breakdown, head to the bottom of the story):

1) If you take every QB's first opportunity to be starter and assign it a number value based on the game in which that opportunity happened (opening day starter equates to 1, someone who began starting in Week 4 equates to 4, etc.) then average those numbers together, you'll get 3.56. That means these 23 guys, on average, took over approximately three or four games in.

2) 12 out of the 23 started right away, while Deshaun Watson and Josh Allen took over midway through the first game. So, basically, 14 out of 23 were at the top of the depth chart from the beginning.

3) Just two out of the 23 — Jake Locker and Patrick Mahomes — waited a full season to assume the starting spot due to Alex Smith and Matt Hasselbeck's performance ahead of them.

So, there are numbers from the last decade that suggest Haskins is going to get his shot and get it very soon. And those numbers, while pretty eye-opening, make sense"
Great stuff Knight - always nice to see the numbers and that validates what we've been saying. That doesn't necessarily mean throwing the youngster in the fire is what should happen. But it does make clear that if he does start immediately, or soon after, we're following the NFL precedent and norm. It's not some dysfunctional outlier of an approach as the cynical DC sports media will spin it.
Agreed - if it plays out that he starts right away, or if he sits a few games - it's not some "wild" approach or neccesarily a command from the owner. History shows, it's typical.

This article has some more insight into the draft and what Jay was thinking QB wise:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/13/d...mmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social

It may be the "norm", but I'm more concerned with the percentage of time that it works, rather than it being the norm. ;)
 

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The problem is, it's an unprovable theorem.

One can look at the vast majority of teams who start first round draftees immediately or early and choose either to point to success as validation of the strategy or to the failures as proof starting them early was their downfall.

Most will assume that waiting to start a top draftee was the basis for eventual success.

But you can't prove any of those things.

The irony may be that really good young QBs find a way to succeed, either from the fire, or from the cool of the sidelines.

For me - I simply think it's 'overblown' as a factor. If you look at most young QBs who were drafted highly but didn't pan out - it was a lack of talent, not time, that seems to have been the issue. Folks will bring up David Carr for eternity. I would argue that it wasn't so much getting thrown in there immediately right out of the gate that prevented Carr from becoming a great QB. Maybe he just wasn't that good? Getting thrown out there right away ON A TERRIBLE TEAM may also have played a big part. Barring mass injuries, I think Haskins would be stepping into a decent situation. Good OL, potentially very good running game, and a WR corps that is mostly an unknown but has potential. Oh - and a defense that may turn out to be just plain nasty.
 

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Am new to the board, but I think Haskins starts wire to wire. He won't be the best of the three QBs in week 1, but as Sonny Jurgensen has pointed out a thousand times on the radio, there just is no substitute for live game action. So if you think he's your QB of the future, you bite the bullet and give him all the experience he can handle from Day 1. If you don't think he's the QB of the future and want to take a wait and see attitude while starting Case or Colt, then you probably shouldn't have drafted him in the first round in the first place and instead taken a QB in lower rounds....
 

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Welcome, Dave. Great to have you here, brother.

I don't know what will happen this summer or fall with Haskins. I voted that Keenum starts and Haskins replaces him after a few games. That's just a guess. Having Keenum as a potential backup is really something. A few months ago, the quarterback situation was downright scary again.

I think we know/knew that Smith's career is over and everything looked bleak. With Keenum and Haskins (or it could be the other way around), the quarterback situation is looking like a strength once again. The QB fortunes changed drastically in just a few weeks. Kudos to Kyle, Doug, and the front office for making all of it happen.
 

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Maybe so. But Gruden doesn't give a shit what the fans think :)
No wonder! 35-44 record might have something to do with it. Hard to care when you are a loser! :encouragement:

Besides....who should give a rat's patout about the folks who ultimately pay the bills?

Welcome aboard DD! Perhaps you will be the good luck charm that rights the wayward Redskin's fortunes!!!
 

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This is what will happen Case will start we will come out the gates firing on all cylinders. As the season wears on we will be undesired but only winning games by 13 points. Members of BGO are heard grumbling I don't know why we drafted quarterback so high if we aren't going to play him. We are 8-0 after 8 games in the 9th game we are up 17-0 at the half the stands are half filled coming out the second half it is announced Jay has been fired and Rex Ryan is the new coach.
Haskins starts the second half of the 9th game and we proceed to go 0-8 the rest of the way. Rex Ryan gets 5 year 100 million contract after the season ends. And that is how the flabby Rexy era begins.
 

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This is what will happen Case will start we will come out the gates firing on all cylinders. As the season wears on we will be undesired but only winning games by 13 points. Members of BGO are heard grumbling I don't know why we drafted quarterback so high if we aren't going to play him. We are 8-0 after 8 games in the 9th game we are up 17-0 at the half the stands are half filled coming out the second half it is announced Jay has been fired and Rex Ryan is the new coach.
Haskins starts the second half of the 9th game and we proceed to go 0-8 the rest of the way. Rex Ryan gets 5 year 100 million contract after the season ends. And that is how the flabby Rexy era begins.
Can we bring back Sexy Rexy to coach instead ?
 

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No way Haskins is the starter come opening day. Keenum or Colt will be the starter.

1. Assuming there was a plan, the whole idea of bringing Keenum in was for a transition.

2. Haskins has exactly one year of experience. He's not even close to being ready for NFL caliber competition.

3. I'm not savvy on Haskns physical/performance limitations (e.g., escapability, accuracy under pressure, etc.) - that's Gruden's job and his staff's. However, and I can't put it to words, I have this feeling that Haskins isn't ready for prime time from a maturity point-of-view. Just an intuition at this point. His responses in an interview I saw and some of his moves leave me with that awkward uncertainty about what his priorities are. Can't explain it other than "I have seen this before". Will just have to sit it out and see where this all goes.
 

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Great to see you here Dave!

Al - I think ‘no way' is far too strong. I agree that it's Gruden's nature to value the vet presence and it would take a lot for him to trust a rookie. But if his play is head and shoulders better I think it's a bigger possibility than you are allowing for.


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Great to see you here Dave!

Al - I think ‘no way' is far too strong. I agree that it's Gruden's nature to value the vet presence and it would take a lot for him to trust a rookie. But if his play is head and shoulders better I think it's a bigger possibility than you are allowing for.


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Boone - Let's put aside the one year of experience dimension of this. I just don't see how Haskins establishes his bonafides in training camp as a rookie learning a whole new offense and language. We know Gruden does not like to play his starters much in preseason games. I don't see how Haskins establishes a clear superiority over Keenum in a scant 8 weeks without a database of opposition gametime against first team defenders. Gruden is gonna have to decide earl;y on who starts the first 3-4 games - against quality teams. I don't count internal competition for much - they're not going to go all out against their prize first round pick. The Iggles are a very good team - I know were I their DC in the first game seeing Haskins under center I'd throw every wild stunt/blitz in the book at him. One of the tapes you posted, let us not forget a comment one of the commentators made after a sack "that's the book on Haskins, his accuracy drops way down under pressure." He could be one in a million; however, I don't see him acclimating to NFL speed, defenses, etc., all in eight weeks. Just don't see it from someone with one year of college experience as a starter.

The only way I see Haskins starting in the first game is if other factors/personalities take over and marketing trumps experience/readiness. Not good for Haskins if he lands up losing the first three to four games. Especially if it is ugly.
 
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Fear The Spear

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The Iggles are a very good team - I know were I their DC in the first game seeing Haskins under center I'd throw every wild stunt/blitz in the book at him.
The only way I see Haskins starting in the first game is if other factors/personalities take over and marketing trumps experience/readiness. Not good for Haskins if he lands up losing the first three to four games. Especially if it is ugly.
I agree with this.
Not only is Philly a good team, but especially on defense, and they are very physical.
Starting Haskins week 1, would be one of the most extreme examples of throwing him into the wolves, or fire...or wolves on fire.
 

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Boone - Let's put aside the one year of experience dimension of this. I just don't see how Haskins establishes his bonafides in training camp as a rookie learning a whole new offense and language. We know Gruden does not like to play his starters much in preseason games. I don't see how Haskins establishes a clear superiority over Keenum in a scant 8 weeks without a database of opposition gametime against first team defenders. Gruden is gonna have to decide earl;y on who starts the first 3-4 games - against quality teams. I don't count internal competition for much - they're not going to go all out against their prize first round pick. The Iggles are a very good team - I know were I their DC in the first game seeing Haskins under center I'd throw every wild stunt/blitz in the book at him. One of the tapes you posted, let us not forget a comment one of the commentators made after a sack "that's the book on Haskins, his accuracy drops way down under pressure." He could be one in a million; however, I don't see him acclimating to NFL speed, defenses, etc., all in eight weeks. Just don't see it from someone with one year of college experience as a starter.

The only way I see Haskins starting in the first game is if other factors/personalities take over and marketing trumps experience/readiness. Not good for Haskins if he lands up losing the first three to four games. Especially if it is ugly.
You're tagging a guy who completed 70% of his passes against some of the best teams in the country as inaccurate? I don't know of any QB in the history of QBs whose accuracy didn't 'drop down under pressure'. But as I countered that argument before - he hardly every GETS pressured because he gets rid of the ball decisively and about as quickly as any QB I've seen.

I'm also going to push back on the idea that 'if he starts, it's due to pressure from above or marketing'. Bitch about Gruden all you want but he is no pushover. He's already got street cred on this having moved the Chosen One out of the starting lineup and off the roster. He's not going to start Haskins unless he thinks he's earned it and gives us the best QB at that spot.

If Colt McCoy were healthy (and if he'd looked competent when he came in last year), I would agree with you. But Haskins (no matter what Gruden says) isn't competing with Colt (who likely won't be on the roster come September). He's competing against Case Keenum. I like Keenum. I wouldn't be panicking if he was our annointed starter for the next year or two. He's a solid QB despite 6 teams in 7 seasons not wanting to keep him as a starter. But when you put Haskins out there and see that live arm, that big strong kid who can throw the ball anywhere you want him to with accuracy, it's going to be a stark difference. And you completely ignore that Case Keenum has no more experience with this offense or the players on this roster than does Haskins.

I am not and have not said that Haskins starting right out of the gate will happen. But it absolutely could happen.

Yes - we do have a challenging start to the schedule. I'm not sure Keenum gives us a better chance to win those games than does Haskins - I don't know what one would even base that opinion on, other than just an assumption that 'more experience' means 'better'. If our vet were Rex Grossman, or Danny Wuerffel would you be relying so heavily on that argument?

If Keenum is the better QB he'll show it and he'll get the reigns to start the year. But if Haskins picks things up quickly and shines, I think you're going to be in for a surprise.
 

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You guys do realize we get to field a defense too, right?

Just checking... :)

We'll be unleashing what was already a good D on Mr. Brittle with even more weapons. Think Carson Wentz might be trying to grow eyes in the back of his head? I do.

The Eagles whomped us twice last year, but faced Mark Sanchez and Josh Johnson and his 37% completion rate in those contests. And you guys are worried about Dwayne Haskins starting?

And the Eagles 2018 defense was ranked 23rd in the NFL. 30th in passing yards allowed. Just sayin'...

Anyway, just jerkin' your cords a little. As the late great Doris Day used to say...

 
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Miles Monroe

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I'm thinkin Haskins will be ready and able to start on opening day, but won't.... It's just too unlike Gruden to happen. Ya, I acknowledge he could be "head & shoulders" above the other QB's, but if I've learned anything about Gruden, he's a creature of habit. He'll "Norv speak" at the podium how he's not seeing everything he wants out of him, so Case will get the start. I'd be thrilled to see him start day one, but I aint holding me breath. I'm figuring week 4 he get the start.
 

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You're tagging a guy who completed 70% of his passes against some of the best teams in the country as inaccurate? I don't know of any QB in the history of QBs whose accuracy didn't 'drop down under pressure'. But as I countered that argument before - he hardly every GETS pressured because he gets rid of the ball decisively and about as quickly as any QB I've seen.

I'm also going to push back on the idea that 'if he starts, it's due to pressure from above or marketing'. Bitch about Gruden all you want but he is no pushover. He's already got street cred on this having moved the Chosen One out of the starting lineup and off the roster. He's not going to start Haskins unless he thinks he's earned it and gives us the best QB at that spot.

If Colt McCoy were healthy (and if he'd looked competent when he came in last year), I would agree with you. But Haskins (no matter what Gruden says) isn't competing with Colt (who likely won't be on the roster come September). He's competing against Case Keenum. I like Keenum. I wouldn't be panicking if he was our annointed starter for the next year or two. He's a solid QB despite 6 teams in 7 seasons not wanting to keep him as a starter. But when you put Haskins out there and see that live arm, that big strong kid who can throw the ball anywhere you want him to with accuracy, it's going to be a stark difference. And you completely ignore that Case Keenum has no more experience with this offense or the players on this roster than does Haskins.

I am not and have not said that Haskins starting right out of the gate will happen. But it absolutely could happen.

Yes - we do have a challenging start to the schedule. I'm not sure Keenum gives us a better chance to win those games than does Haskins - I don't know what one would even base that opinion on, other than just an assumption that 'more experience' means 'better'. If our vet were Rex Grossman, or Danny Wuerffel would you be relying so heavily on that argument?

If Keenum is the better QB he'll show it and he'll get the reigns to start the year. But if Haskins picks things up quickly and shines, I think you're going to be in for a surprise.
The question for the thread was who starts the opening game?

Not what I posted. I quoted one of the videos you posted - the context was his accuracy under pressure. And please, I have been a PSU fan for a long time. I know the quality of football in the Big Ten. Last season was a down season. I did watch those tapes. And I wasn't blown away. He is slow. He did have accuracy issues under pressure. Blah. Blah. Blah. This is not the second coming.

Having a strong arm isn't the sure path to success. Lotta other factors play into this. My mindset isn't that Haskins will fail. Common sense suggests to me that there is going to be a period of development that is going to take longer than 8 weeks. I don't care whether he shines or not the first sveral weeks. Throwing a rookie with one year experience out there against the Iggles, Cowboys, Bears and Patriots in four of the first five games would be a laughable mistake only the Redskins would make. Gotta fill seats ya know! Nope. Work him in. Don't throw him to the wolves right out of the gate.

The same Gruiden who can't coach his way out of a paper bag? The same Gruden who is routinely outcoached? The same Gruden who can't make credible half time adjustments? OK!!!!

Anywho, I don't really care to the extent I'm going to lose any sleep over this.
 

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You guys do realize we get to field a defense too, right?

Just checking... :)

[/video]

So does the other team!!!!

All is good Boone. It'll be fun watching. The team has other problems. QB is only one area that needs an upgrade.
 

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The question for the thread was who starts the opening game?

Not what I posted. I quoted one of the videos you posted - the context was his accuracy under pressure. And please, I have been a PSU fan for a long time. I know the quality of football in the Big Ten. Last season was a down season. I did watch those tapes. And I wasn't blown away. He is slow. He did have accuracy issues under pressure. Blah. Blah. Blah. This is not the second coming.

Having a strong arm isn't the sure path to success. Lotta other factors play into this. My mindset isn't that Haskins will fail. Common sense suggests to me that there is going to be a period of development that is going to take longer than 8 weeks. I don't care whether he shines or not the first sveral weeks. Throwing a rookie with one year experience out there against the Iggles, Cowboys, Bears and Patriots in four of the first five games would be a laughable mistake only the Redskins would make. Gotta fill seats ya know! Nope. Work him in. Don't throw him to the wolves right out of the gate.

The same Gruiden who can't coach his way out of a paper bag? The same Gruden who is routinely outcoached? The same Gruden who can't make credible half time adjustments? OK!!!!

Anywho, I don't really care to the extent I'm going to lose any sleep over this.
Carson Wentz started immediately Al. So did damn near every QB picked in the first round the past 5 years. I can see arguments for any approach. But I think the reason some of those QBs failed in the long haul probably had less to do with starting right away, and a lot more to do with their ultimate talent level and ability to just to NFL speed.

We obviously differ on how he looked last year and there's not a lot of benefit in going back and forth on that.

I'll say this ... only you can take the best draft we've had in 20 years and make me feel depressed about it :)
 

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Boone...with all due respect and love....your psyche may be too closely tied to this team. The track record the last 20+ years suggests approaching the future with some reservation. Was this a good draft? Sure. Compared to the past - though I seem to recall recurring optimism every Redskin draft the last 10 to 15 years. In the event, there are many things to like about Haskins. I am as weary as others over the mediocre QB play that has typified the Redskins offense for some time. The excitement factor will come around. Right now? I'll wait. Still lotta issues across the roster.

You know, I almost forgot: the world is going to end in 12 years. Just what is Haskins plan to prevent this? :biggrin2:

Just for the record: if Haskins does start game one...of course i want a resounding victory against the criminals from Philthydelphia.
 
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Fear The Spear

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Carson Wentz started immediately Al. So did damn near every QB picked in the first round the past 5 years.
A lot of those teams could afford a rookie QB, because the team had nothing to lose, basically because overall, they sucked and had little chance at the playoffs.
What's unique about this Redskins' team is that we're not the typical "sucky" team, that usually spends a 1st round pick on a QB.
We have strong playoff potential. So we have a lot to lose, by starting a QB who isn't quite ready. And every game is going to count big. One game/loss could make or break our playoff chances. Starting Haskins prematurely in Game 1, and having his unreadiness cost us that game, could be the 1 game that's the difference between making or missing the playoffs.
 

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A lot of those teams could afford a rookie QB, because the team had nothing to lose, basically because overall, they sucked and had little chance at the playoffs.
What's unique about this Redskins' team is that we're not the typical "sucky" team, that usually spends a 1st round pick on a QB.
We have strong playoff potential. So we have a lot to lose, by starting a QB who isn't quite ready. And every game is going to count big. One game/loss could make or break our playoff chances. Starting Haskins prematurely in Game 1, and having his unreadiness cost us that game, could be the 1 game that's the difference between making or missing the playoffs.
That entire premise is based on the assumption Keenum gives us the better chance of winning. And it may a wrong assumption.

Gruden is by all reports on the hot seat. I figure he'll start the guy he thinks is the best player and I'll trust his assessment on that front.

You could also argue that having a pretty solid team around him would make it less risky to start a rookie who might be more prone to make mistakes but has much higher upside.

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