So, Holmgren?

[servumtuum]

At this stage do you think Dan is going to ever hire a real GM? I’m not being a wise guy here I honestly want to know what folks think.

I seriously doubt he will. We haven’t had a legitimate GM here in DC since Charley Casserly got the boot in favor of keeping Norv. Surely Dan must at least be aware that fans and the media want him to have a real GM. I’ve seen it in print for years in the paper and I know Dan is aware of what is written about the team in The Post. I think he’d just rather not have one. I can only guess at the reasoning.

He’s buddies with Jerry Jones and Jerry doesn’t have a GM, so why should he? We have a President of Football Operations who has, or almost has all of the same responsibilities, or so we are lead to believe, but we don’t call him a GM. Ok. That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. The only thing it gives Dan is the flexibility to keep Vinny around if he hires a coach who wants complete control over football operations. “He’s not a GM, he’s President of Football Operations”. That way he gets to keep a weasel on the inside.

On a side note I haven't seen Vinny watching games with Dan this season in the owner's box.

HF, when Snyder made his fortune with Snyder Communications he did it by being creative and innovative in the field of direct marketing, his success came largely as a result of doing things differently than others in the business. He was, and in some respects still is, a creative and insightful genius in marketing. He got his success by not doing things the way others did them-and was very successful at it. I don't think it was too large a leap into an assumption that success based on doing things your own way could be generalized into other areas-such as running a NFL franchise. The financial success of the Redskins franchise almost certainly would reinforce this perspective. Add to this a childhood dream of "I have my own NFL team to play with" and you have, I think, a plausible scenario to explain the apparent relutance to consider hiring a GM

 

[Elephant]

Maybe it's my ego, but I am wondering why no one is biting on the Brian Schottenheimer bait. This kid has been around winning franchises having followed his father. He was a candidate for both the Dolphins job and the Jets last year. He is currently the OC w/ the Jets and they are looking pretty good behind a defensive minded Head Coach so you know Sanchez is Brian's project.

If his father could step in as the GM or VP in charge of Football Operations, this could be a winning duo.

I know there are SB winning coaches out there who could come in and make us competitive, but none of them is any better than Joe Gibbs was in his 2nd attempt w/out a front office guru. I think those who have suggested a GM first approach are right and I think the duo I mentioned could be a success. Question is, would Marty be willing to return knowing Danny boy accepted his role as the real leader of the Washington Redskins football team. Danny can still do his marketing and ownership duties but when it came down to the team and product on the field, it would be Marty's call.

Eh...it's good to dream isn't it?

 

[Hog Fever]

HF, when Snyder made his fortune with Snyder Communications he did it by being creative and innovative in the field of direct marketing, his success came largely as a result of doing things differently than others in the business. He was, and in some respects still is, a creative and insightful genius in marketing. He got his success by not doing things the way others did them-and was very successful at it. I don't think it was too large a leap into an assumption that success based on doing things your own way could be generalized into other areas-such as running a NFL franchise. The financial success of the Redskins franchise almost certainly would reinforce this perspective. Add to this a childhood dream of "I have my own NFL team to play with" and you have, I think, a plausible scenario to explain the apparent relutance to consider hiring a GM

That's a reasonable assessment.

 

[Bulldog]

I think this time, though, the failure may be of a magnitude where Snyder has to throw the 'mob' a bone.

Also, after all these failures, Snyder may just be worn down enough to throw up his hands and make changes.

I don't have any doubt that Snyder will look to hire a Super Bowl coach in 2010 and I don't see any of the 4 or 5 out there coming here if Vinny is still in the building.

If it comes down to revenue and fans being turned off the product, Snyder will dump Cerrato in a heartbeat.

 

[servumtuum]

I'm still somewhat puzzled by something in this whole "which new HC should we have" question.

Given that the situation vis-a-vis Snyder, Cerrato, Zorn, the team's current situation, the history of coaching this team within the current organization's mode of operation-all of this is well known; why in hell would anyone on anyone's short list of potential turn-this-thing-around HC's want to come here? Holmgren, Grimm, Cowher, Marty and/or son, whoever-what reason would they have for wanting to endure-and I use that word deliberately-being the head coach of the Redskins under the "leadership" of the Snyder/Cerrato organization?

Right now the only things I can imagine are that they would come in as GM with a "bye-bye Vinny" clause included and pick their own HC and coaching staff, or they somehow believe they could work around the dog-and-pony-show and rebuild the team-(I think this one's fairly implausible)-or they're out-and-out masochists. If there's a reason I've overlooked please let me know-I'm having a hard time figuring this one out.

 

[Hog Fever]

They would come here for two reasons: Big Money and Big Ego.

Everyone likes the cash and a bidding war between Dan and Jerry (if Wade fails) for services could mean 5 million plus a year for one of these guys. You add in the fact that all of these guys think they can all but walk on water and you have all the ingredients you need.

There are only 32 of these positions on earth. If the register rings they will come.

 

[servumtuum]

They would come here for two reasons: Big Money and Big Ego.

Everyone likes the cash and a bidding war between Dan and Jerry (if Wade fails) for services could mean 5 million plus a year for one of these guys. You add in the fact that all of these guys think they can all but walk on water and you have all the ingredients you need.

There are only 32 of these positions on earth. If the register rings they will come.

That also, is a reasonable assessment.

 

[WallyG3]

The problem is that one guy does not make an organization. The GM is critical, and the head coach is pivotal. But they need good people under them. When these coaches won Superbowls, you can name key coaches under them who contributed significantly to the staff. It's a team game off the field too.

So the real question is not which coach do you want, but which coach can assemble the best coaching staff? Who can put together a good leadership team?

We saw with Norv, he couldn't get a good defensive staff put together. Marty was only missing a GM and time. Spurrier had a completely crap offensive staff and once Marvin left he had no chance. Gibbs had old-school guys on the offensive team that couldn't break through in the modern age. Zorn, well I don't need to list his problems. You know.

What we need is a completely new coaching team. It's a tall order and well maybe not even realistic to ask for. BUT that explains why we can't get there. It's hard to have the right leadership team and the right player team at the same time.

But you start at the top. A good GM with a good scouting team. A leader of a head coach. An innovative offensive mind with solid position coaches. A dominant defensive mind with solid postiion coaches.

So, who will/can Cowher/Gruden/Holmgren/Shanahan/Anybody bring with them?

 

[Aston Gambino]

I wouldn't mind Holmgren. Got a proven track record with QBs that would certainly help a team that's lacked consistent production from that position for years. At the same time, I don't really like the whole attitude, "I think I'd love to try the east coast, that sounds like fun." Seems like he's just looking for another notch on his belt.

I think of those mentioned in this thread, Shanahan's the guy I think I'd pick if I had the choice, but I'm in total agreement with those who say that Vinny needs to go for us to move forward.

 

[Yusuf06]

Maybe it's my ego, but I am wondering why no one is biting on the Brian Schottenheimer bait. This kid has been around winning franchises having followed his father. He was a candidate for both the Dolphins job and the Jets last year. He is currently the OC w/ the Jets and they are looking pretty good behind a defensive minded Head Coach so you know Sanchez is Brian's project.

If his father could step in as the GM or VP in charge of Football Operations, this could be a winning duo.

I know there are SB winning coaches out there who could come in and make us competitive, but none of them is any better than Joe Gibbs was in his 2nd attempt w/out a front office guru. I think those who have suggested a GM first approach are right and I think the duo I mentioned could be a success. Question is, would Marty be willing to return knowing Danny boy accepted his role as the real leader of the Washington Redskins football team. Danny can still do his marketing and ownership duties but when it came down to the team and product on the field, it would be Marty's call.

Eh...it's good to dream isn't it?

OK, I'll bite. I admit Schott Jr. is an intriguing prospect. He's got great bloodlines and has a lot of experience, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

However, I have to doubt he'd want to come here. He got a chance to see Snyder up close and personal when his Dad coached for us, and I sincerely doubt Schott Sr. is going to say anything that would change Jr.'s opinion of Snyder.

Besides, Marty the GM wasn't all that great during his one year with us. I realize it's a stretch to make a determination with only one year's worth of data to work with. However, the same small sample size problem also holds true for using this as a basis to prove his qualifications.

So, I could certainly see hiring Schott Jr. However, it would have to come after revamping our personnel dept...with someone other than Marty.

They would come here for two reasons: Big Money and Big Ego.

Everyone likes the cash and a bidding war between Dan and Jerry (if Wade fails) for services could mean 5 million plus a year for one of these guys. You add in the fact that all of these guys think they can all but walk on water and you have all the ingredients you need.

There are only 32 of these positions on earth. If the register rings they will come.

This is mostly correct, but with one small caveat. There are only 32 of these positions on earth. If the register rings somebody will come.

Everyone, especially Snyder, wants to believe this and as I pointed out, it's partially true. However, the scarcity of NFL HC positions is exceeded only by the scarcity of coaches that can actually produce a winning team. Therefore if you take the attitude above, sure, you'll end up getting someone. It just might not be someone good.

Absent extraordinary circumstances like a ridiculous offer and/or full control, most any coach worth his salt would rather wait to take another job than work for Snyder. Doubt it? Well, just ask Steve Spagnuolo.

 

[Hog Fever]

I see your point and I agree to a point. Maybe if enough big name guys pass on the position it will cause them to re-think things a bit. Money is NOT the answer to everything in DC.

Spags, although highly sought after, didn't have the pedigree that the guys who will be available after the season have. Maybe he wanted Dan to counter with a big offer. Who knows? He choose not to work in a place where he'd be expected to win right away. For his long term coaching future that was probably the right move. I also doubt there was much of a real bidding war for his services. I could be wrong.

Working with head case owners is an occupational hazard of being an NFL coach. Our Dan is not the only flake in the box. What is the real difference between 4 and 5 million? I think a lot of times it comes down to ego. Successful coaches who are humble about being successful coaches are a rare breed. I think these guys think they can coach any team any place. They almost have to think that way to lead some of the guys in the league now.

These guys will be able to just about dictate their situation and just about do the same thing with their pay. I doubt they would get away with that in Buffalo.

 

[Shiv]

GM first please. I really don't understand why we are so quick to find out who our next HC should be. We've been over this time and time again during Snyder's time here. Get big names, don't fix what's actually wrong, rinse, repeat. The problem is Management. The problem is no one is accountable for all the football decisions made above the Head Coach. Vinny has been for over a year now, but he should be somewhat accountable for the last decade, I don't care if Gibbs took control. Cerrato shows up to Redskins Park every day(exaggeration) for the last decade, and he has a voice in this organization. It needs to end. Whether you think he's an extension of Snyder or acting on his own, he needs to go. A GM with full power who only asks that Snyder signs the checks, is what we need.

 

[Spence]

The skeleton of George Allen

Up side – Knows how to get the most out of vets. Will excite the fan base. Is a true Redskin.

Down side – Will trade away first round draft picks for questionable vets. Plays a conservative game style. He's a skeleton.

Crap, that was funny.

I'm not a fan of these guys who want total control, particularly the ones who failed when they had total control. Holmgren failed in Seattle and they took the front office away from him. Shanahan's failures as a GM were so complete they eventually got him fired as the coach. Both men are good coaches, but are not good general managers. [Rather like Joe Gibbs, actually.]

More than anything, the team needs a real GM. It needs a GM who can get along with Dan Snyder, but isn't Snyder's pal/supplicant/manservant/stevedore/bartender.

 

[Spence]

GM first please. I really don't understand why we are so quick to find out who our next HC should be. We've been over this time and time again during Snyder's time here. Get big names, don't fix what's actually wrong, rinse, repeat. The problem is Management. The problem is no one is accountable for all the football decisions made above the Head Coach. Vinny has been for over a year now, but he should be somewhat accountable for the last decade, I don't care if Gibbs took control. Cerrato shows up to Redskins Park every day(exaggeration) for the last decade, and he has a voice in this organization. It needs to end. Whether you think he's an extension of Snyder or acting on his own, he needs to go. A GM with full power who only asks that Snyder signs the checks, is what we need.

This is 100% correct. The next coach really ought to be chosen by a qualified and independent GM and then that choice should be rubber-stamped by a gelded Dan Snyder.

Kind of hard to see that happening, but that's what SHOULD happen.