Skins Quotes 10/28

[tshile]

Nope. No need to stymie the running game, Kyle does that all by himself. Morris had 17 carries for 93 yards, averaging 5.5 yards a pop. I'm still convinced if he gets 30 carries, we win that game.

Advanced NFL Stats: What Makes Teams Win? 1

correlation != causation.

that's an actual study on it. if you can't figure it out after that then it's a lost cause.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Advanced NFL Stats: What Makes Teams Win? 1

correlation != causation.

that's an actual study on it. if you can't figure it out after that then it's a lost cause.

Obvioulsy. I'm going by my own understanding of the game, and what I know we needed to do in order to win that game. Namely, keep Peyton Manning off the field. What causes the clock to run and keeps Peyton off the field? A strong running game. I don't need any studies or anything to tell me that, because it is basic common sense. So continue to be condescending and post studies all you want, but you're just wrong here. I'm not alone in my opinion - I'd say a minimum of 90% of Skins fans this week are questioning Kyle's commitment to the run (if they weren't already); and close to 100% knew we needed to be successful running the ball to have any shot at beating the Broncos.

So, keep up the condescending quips and implying that 90% of the fan base is stupid (not to mention most on this site) if you want, but at the end of the day its basic common sense. Running game keeps the clock moving. If we are on offense, Peyton and the potent Denver offense are not on the field, and hence cannot score points. 1 + 1 = 2. And such.

 

[tshile]

I posted a study and you didn't even bother to read it.

There's a word for that...

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I posted a study and you didn't even bother to read it.

There's a word for that...

More condescension and quips...guess you really don't want a debate, you just want to throw insults around. I did read your study, and I've read similar ones before. Still doesn't change my basic understanding of the game of football, and that the key to beating the Broncos is keeping Peyton off the field.

From your own study:

When we see two things that appear correlated, it is natural for us to say that one causes the other. The runs come during the game, and the win comes at its conclusion. Therefore most fans and analysts assume the running causes the winning. The problem is, it usually doesn't. It's the winning that causes the running. Teams that are ahead, and likely to win, run the ball to take time off the clock and to minimize the risk of a turnover. Teams that are behind, and likely to lose, abandon the run in favor of the pass. Statistics can measure the correlation, but it can't determine the direction of causation.

Well, the thing is, WE WERE NOT BEHIND WHEN HE ABANDONED THE RUN. We were tied, and Kyle abandoned the run. Then, once we were behind by 7 (with a full-quarter to play), Kyle completely abandoned it (running one more time IIRC) and went to a pass-happy offense. So your "study" does not apply in this case, because we were winning for most of the game, and Morris still only got 17 carries. Explain that one to me.

 

[tshile]

I've tried to debate it. I've posted screen shots of plays, posted rationals about why certain decisions may be done, posted drive logs, etc. You're the one unwilling to consider anyone else's side to this. I post a study that's stated purpose is to challenge commense sense and you're response is "I don't need any studies or anything to tell me that, because it is basic common sense."

You've been ranting about the run issue for 3 years now. You're firmly entrenched in your stance on the issue. I posted a statistical study and you didn't even bother to consider it, based on your own response. You just complained about me being condescending.

You're completely ignoring the thousands of things that go into analysing a football game and why things go a certain way to harp on one stat - the number of total runs over the course of a game.

If football was that simple and easy it wouldn't be nearly so popular.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

I've tried to debate it. I've posted screen shots of plays, posted rationals about why certain decisions may be done, posted drive logs, etc. You're the one unwilling to consider anyone else's side to this. I post a study that's stated purpose is to challenge commense sense and you're response is "I don't need any studies or anything to tell me that, because it is basic common sense."

You've been ranting about the run issue for 3 years now. You're firmly entrenched in your stance on the issue. I posted a statistical study and you didn't even bother to consider it, based on your own response. You just complained about me being condescending.

I just responded to the meat of the study. Read my post.

"Ranting about the run issue for 3 years now." Yes, you really want a debate throwing out lines like that. Its not just me, look around you and read some other posts. People are pissed about Kyle abandoning the run.

And its been a lot longer than 3 years - I've known for 30-years how to win football games, and that a strong run game is a good thing. Ever since some guy named Gibbs came in and proved it in the 80s - you may have heard of him.

 

[tshile]

Your post just indicates you didn't read the whole study, or you didn't understand it, or you've forgotten how the game went.

 

[Henry]

tshile, During the game Troy Aikman was wondering out loud why the Redskins abandoned the run. Lanky's not imagining things here.

The Redskins got away from what was working. It was dumb.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Your post just indicates you didn't read the whole study, or you didn't understand it, or you've forgotten how the game went.

LOL.

I have posted the sequence of events I'm referring to. I posted the exact time and drive Kyle abandoned the run, and we were not behind at the time. YOU are the one ignoring MY argument. YOU are the one hell-bent on standing firm in your argument, not me. I agreed to disagree, and YOU are the one who brought it back up, posting studies and being condescending and insulting. NOT me.

So, I suggest you stick to your previous sentiment of agreeing to disagree, because its clear we will never agree. If you continue to have such a strong need to prove me wrong, by all means go right ahead. You are not going to change my mind about the running game. You're just not.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

tshile, During the game Troy Aikman was wondering out loud why the Redskins abandoned the run. Lanky's not imagining things here.

The Redskins got away from what was working. It was dumb.

Troy Aikman, everyone at the bar I was at, every Skins fan on Facebook, most Skins fans on this board, pretty much the entire Skins-related universe.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Maybe you'll take David Elfin's & Mike Shanahan's word for it:

“All we had to do was get a couple drives offensively going, keep Denver off the field, and we could have dictated the outcome of the game,” Mike Shanahan lamented after his Redskins were overwhelmed 38-0 during the remaining 26:25.

After the Broncos marched 75 yards for a touchdown following Hall’s big play – which made him the first player during the Redskins’ 83 years to score three times on defense in a season – Kyle called Morris’ number three times on the next series. The battering ram gained just six yards and, after one first down, Washington punted the ball back to Denver, which drove 83 yards to tie the game on the first play of the fourth quarter.

Having seen Manning & Co. begin inflicting that expected damage on the Redskins’ tiring defense, one would think that Kyle would’ve tried to give Haslett’s guys a break by killing some clock. That would mean relying on the three-headed running attack of Morris, Griffin and Roy Helu that killed Chicago for 220 yards on 41 carries the previous Sunday.

Think again. Griffin went deep on three straight plays. Denver took the lead on its subsequent snap. Morris ran for six yards on the second of the three plays before Rocca’s next punt. A field goal made it 31-21 Broncos, but there was still 11:14 remaining. And yet, Kyle called three straight passes again. Morris lost four yards when Washington got the ball back next, a play before Denver intercepted Griffin to set up the touchdown that sealed the Redskins’ defeat. Morris never carried again, finishing with 93 yards on 17 attempts.

Redskins Loss In Denver Falls Squarely On Kyle Shanahan « CBS DC

 

[tshile]

LOL.

I have posted the sequence of events I'm referring to. I posted the exact time and drive Kyle abandoned the run, and we were not behind at the time. YOU are the one ignoring MY argument. YOU are the one hell-bent on standing firm in your argument, not me. I agreed to disagree, and YOU are the one who brought it back up, posting studies and being condescending and insulting. NOT me.

So, I suggest you stick to your previous sentiment of agreeing to disagree, because its clear we will never agree. If you continue to have such a strong need to prove me wrong, by all means go right ahead. You are not going to change my mind about the running game. You're just not.

Agreeing to disagree was your sentiment, not mine. I don't believe in agreeing to disagree when the the issue is not a matter of opinion. (most issues are not a matter of opinion... it's a matter of one side not having, distorting, or misunderstanding information, sometimes both sides to be fair)

Also, you're the one making every thread about Kyle abandoning the run causing us to lose.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Mister Irrelevant (Respected Skins blog):

Winners:
Alfred Morris — He leads the NFL in yards per attempt at 5.2; finished with 93 at 5.5 per rush yesterday. Completely eliminating him from the gameplan in the second half sure was a neat idea.

Losers:
Kyle Shanahan — From the time the Skins were up 21-7 to the brutal end, he called five total run plays for Morris despite the running game being the only thing that worked up to that point. Between that and a complete lack of any bootlegs or rollouts, he turned the Skins offense into a straight drop-back passing game, which worked out well.

Redskins-Broncos Winners & Losers | Mr. Irrelevant, a D.C. Sports Blog by the Brothers Mottram

 

[SilentThreat]

I have to agree with the primary issue being leaving the run game in the rear view.. it was a bad move. What they did COULD have worked, had it been executed correctly, but there really was no reason to change the gameplan, in my opinion.

 

[SkinsFTW]

Your post just indicates you didn't read the whole study, or you didn't understand it, or you've forgotten how the game went.

When you have a QB that can't seem to make a positive play, WR's that drop 1/2 of everything thrown at them, an OL that gets Popcorned Tecmo Bowl style on every pass play, **** it, go deep on 3 consecutive plays in a game where your defense and running game had you in the lead.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

Here's another take on it, tshile, maybe you'll understand it this way:

If Griffin hits those pass-plays, we'd all be singing a different tune. Thing is, he didn't, and the passing game was struggling all afternoon. Why go to it in that clutch situation? We needed a clock-killing, sustained TD drive, and Kyle called three straight pass plays, when the passing game was simply not clicking.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

When you have a QB that can't seem to make a positive play, WR's that drop 1/2 of everything thrown at them, an OL that gets Popcorned Tecmo Bowl style on every pass play, **** it, go deep on 3 consecutive plays in a row in a game where your defense and running game had you in the lead.

Exactly; I remember how the game went just fine. Every time Griffin dropped back, he got the sh!t kicked out of him!

 

[tshile]

tshile, During the game Troy Aikman was wondering out loud why the Redskins abandoned the run. Lanky's not imagining things here.

The Redskins got away from what was working. It was dumb.

Yes, they pointed out the number of carrie's Morris had since half or since, I watched the game too.

I've already laid it out. If you think playcalling is why people can't catch balls while wide open and why Griffin can't hit the broad side of a barn when it matters then so be it.

It's one thing to say they got away from the run. It's another blame every single loss on it. It's such a lazy excuse at this point it's laughable. The players aren't executing and blaming the coaching staff is absurd. They're put in positions to succeed and they drop balls, they throw awful passes, and they made bad decisions.

you cannot run the ball every frekin down. this isn't madden. it's the NFL. you have to be balanced and consistent. thinking you can run the ball for 1 1/2 quarters to maintain a 14 point lead against Payton Manning is a joke

 

[Lanky Livingston]

It's one thing to say they got away from the run. It's another blame every single loss on it. It's such a lazy excuse at this point it's laughable. The players aren't executing and blaming the coaching staff is absurd. They're put in positions to succeed and they drop balls, they throw awful passes, and they made bad decisions.

Who is blaming every single loss on it? We've lost games for a lot of reasons this year, commitment to the run game is just one thing on a long list.

Kyle has a tendency to either be very stubborn, or try to force Griffin into a good game passing with his playcalling. The run game was clicking, the pass game was not clicking (dropped balls, inaccurate balls, Griffin getting SLAUGHTERED), and yet he went to it with the game in the balance, when the run game was churning out yards. It was inexcusable, and the reason we lost the game.

 

[tshile]

You are.

http://www.bgobsession.com/sons-was...-have-summed-up-abandon-run-issue-better.html

http://www.bgobsession.com/sons-washington/54757-unpleasant-truth-3.html

http://www.bgobsession.com/sons-washington/59833-how-game-managed-has-me-steamed-3.html

http://www.bgobsession.com/sons-washington/38377-panthers-redskins-please-update.html

That's just the posts on the first page of this search: Let me google that for you

It's a running theme by you and quite a few others. Kyle's playcalling has certainly been flawed. But the criticism has been completely predictable at this point. Did the redskins lose? If Yes, then queue up a weeks worth of "Kyle abandoned the run" posts.

There's never any consideration given to anything other than whatever Morris' yard/carry average is and how many runs he had.

I'd quit stirring this pot if it wasn't such a blatantly shallow way to analyse a game that gets posted in every frekin thread the week after a loss.

I mean it's in almost every single thread...