RG3 Development Tracker 2015

This probably belongs in this thread, rather than Random Redskins Thoughts where I think most of the discussion about what kinds of plays were called for Bob. I've been suggesting that Bob was largely responsible for his own beating against the Lions, and that the playcalling was probably not to blame as much as was his inability to help himself in the pocket by pre-snap reads, and then not seeming to know what to do in the pocket or with the ball when the bad pass pro saw things break down.

So just for fun ...

Been wanting to do this for my own edification all week. Just looked at all Bob's pass plays again. Here they are with my own reads/observations watching each several times. What I will note right off is that of the nine, only one called for him to take a full 7-step drop from under center. The rest were shotgun, short drops, and presented Bob with options to get rid of the ball.

Yes, I've made some observations based on what I believe I'm seeing. If anyone has access to the tape and wants to review/parse any of them, please do.

First possession:

2nd and 11. Shotgun. Takes snap, drops one step, looks at WR open 5 yards downfield on the numbers, doesn't pull the trigger. Instead of drifting one step to his right to avoid Lion owning Scherff, tries to bail out of pocket by spinning around to his left right into said Lion. Sack.

3rd and 21. Shotgun. Takes snap, drops half step, dumps off to Roberts in left flat.

Second possession:

1st and 10. Under center. Seven step drop, play action, plants, throws on time. No pressure. Lion defender bats pass down at LOS.

2nd and 10. Shotgun. Takes snap, drops one step, hesitates. Throws off back foot as Lion defender closes, completes to Garcon short right for 4 yards.

3rd and 6. Shotgun. Takes snap, drops three steps, looks left, hesitates. Does not read LB on delayed blitz or Garcon open crossing in front of him on short drag route, throws instead off back foot to Roberts covered on left sideline as Lion crushes him.

Third possession:

3rd and 2. Shotgun. Takes snap, one step, looks right, hesitates. Gets sacked from behind by unblocked left defensive end.

Fourth Possession:

1st and 10. Under center. Five step drop, plants, hesitates. No pressure. Drifts left, throws short left to RB for 2 yards.

2nd and 12. Under center. Five step drop, plants, hesitates. Pressure from left end. Does not see or choose to go to RB open in left flat or WR open in right flat. Moves up INTO pressure from left side, sacked.

3rd and 16. Shotgun. Five step drop. Does not see or chooses not to throw to any of three open receivers short left, center or right. Moves up into pocket, loses ball, falls on it, sacked.
 
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A little fuel for the fire for those who don't believe Robert actually had a concussion...

A friend of mine is self-employed and has a PT/therapeutic massage business. She has worked on a few 'Skins in the past, but now sees only one and he takes up a few appointments a week. Kind of keeping it on the DL because it wasn't supposed to be public that he had an injury (he's fully recovered now, by the way, but still gets preventive treatment). She's legit, though... I've seen pics of them together when she went down to work on him in Richmond one day (she's a legit massage therapist... get your minds out of the gutter) and he gave her an autographed jersey.

She told him when Robert came on to the sidelines, he asked Robert what was wrong and he said "My shoulder, man... my shoulder."

So either Robert's bell was rung so bad and he was all tweet tweet and stuff and didn't even know he was concussed, or the team made it up. Pick one.

Nick
 
The ****ing rumors and what ifs with this team are stunning. If Brady had a concussion there would be no gossip or rumors. It's a concussion.

I believe you, nick. I think that's my problem. There are too many different stories about one injury and one person all the freaking time
 
OM...all long yardage...all open receivers way short. more analysis needed.

in point of fact...that is something we have all been speaking to for several years now: how often we end up with these short pass plays that fall well short of needed yardage.

also, to strengthen your case, rec you add times from snap to sack.

we all know Griffin has issues.
 
I believe my friend... i really do with all my heart. She's not from this area and is a Saints fan and wouldn't really know or care to make up this stuff. If Robert hadn't spoken to the media earlier in the week, I guess the whole "did he really have a concussion" argument would have never existed.

I guess if he was so bad off that he didn't realize he was all wonky upstairs, he wouldn't have passed protocols and practiced Sunday.

This same guy said Robert wasn't well-liked (we've all heard that one before) and actually needs to get on the field and try to play well, as in intensity.

That part was disappointing and I'm hoping because this player is new (oops... ) he just hasn't seen much.

Nick
 
ntotoro said:
I believe my friend... i really do with all my heart. She's not from this area and is a Saints fan and wouldn't really know or care to make up this stuff. If Robert hadn't spoken to the media earlier in the week, I guess the whole "did he really have a concussion" argument would have never existed.

I guess if he was so bad off that he didn't realize he was all wonky upstairs, he wouldn't have passed protocols and practiced Sunday.

This same guy said Robert wasn't well-liked (we've all heard that one before) and actually needs to get on the field and try to play well, as in intensity.

That part was disappointing and I'm hoping because this player is new (oops... ) he just hasn't seen much.

Nick
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man....getting close to that threshold where I just wish Griffin was gone and I could jump on the "Colt/Kirk is a loser" bandwagon that is sure to follow.
 
No need to redirect, Al. You seem to have missed the point entirely. Robert had options available to him that he either could not or would not take, in order to avoid some if not all the hits that have led to this discussion. If you watched the nine plays in question objectively, as you say you've done, I'm confident you would be able to see that clear as day. It's not about what the initial calls were, it's about what he didn't do once the plays actually started to unfold to help both himself and his team out.
 
Om said:
No need to redirect, Al. You seem to have missed the point entirely. Robert had options available to him that he either could not or would not take, in order to avoid some if not all the hits that have led to this discussion. If you watched the nine plays in question objectively, as you say you've done, I'm confident you would be able to see that clear as day. It's not about what the initial calls were, it's about what he didn't do once the plays actually started to unfold to help both himself and his team out.
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not redirecting. neither am I taking your analysis that he "had options" as convincing proof that a different outcome was probable/highly probable had he in fact followed one of these options...the point I have been making all along.
 
We're reducing this to the point of absurdity, Al. The man didn't have to get crushed six times. It was not inevitable given the pass pro or the play calls. He could have moved. Taken a check down. Thrown it away. He had options. That he did not or could not exercise them is the point I have been making all along.
 
OM...believe as you chose Sir. for me...absurdity is assuming that an outcome is avoidable since options existed....as though this were a tautological law of nature.
 
fansince62 said:
OM...believe as you chose Sir. for me...absurdity is assuming that an outcome is avoidable since options existed....as though this were a tautological law of nature.
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I don't think it's unfair to have an expectation that if options WERE available, that a 4th year QB would take them. Unfortunately, seemingly NONE of those options were taken. Didn't have to be every time, but an NFL QB seizes those options. Had he been able to do it twice I would have given him more credit of development.
 
far be it from me to post from the WaPo but this was too good not to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-nfl-coach-who-anonymously-ripped-jay-gruden/

“Any person that isn’t willing to put their name to a comment doesn’t deserve any respect at all,” Theismann said. “If you’re telling me that a coach said that, the coach has no spine, he’s a spineless individual and that’s the bottom line. To make an irresponsible, stupid statement like that, Robert needs the work. And, oh, by the way, there’s only one part of that offensive line that wasn’t a starter and that was Will Smith on the left side. To say that Jay would put him out there for any reason other than to get him work, is an absolute insult to a coach. You’ve known me long enough, and the people listening to this show have known me long enough, if I say something, my name goes to it. If you want to be a man, if you have an opinion, why don’t you put your name to it instead of being an anonymous coach, which is a bunch of baloney, and to me spineless and gutless. If you’ve got something to say, open your mouth and put your name to it. Then I’ll listen to you. But as far as that statement goes, it’s ridiculous that anyone would make that assumption. Robert needs work and he needs a lot of work, and getting hurt doesn’t help it.”
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This is why I ALWAYS brush off "sources say" articles.
 
fansince62 said:
OM...believe as you chose Sir. for me...absurdity is assuming that an outcome is avoidable since options existed....as though this were a tautological law of nature.
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Clearly Keim skipped that philosophy class.

Washington Redskins hoping to learn Junior Galette's fate soon - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

ASHBURN, Va. -- Yes, it’s a huge week for Robert Griffin III. If this is the regular-season dress rehearsal coming up, and if the Redskins stick to using no starters in the final preseason game, then Griffin has to prove that last week was an aberration. The problem is, part of the issues stem from areas that he hasn’t done well in the past. This isn't about two preseason games; it's about two years ... plus these games.

Anyway, here are some thoughts on the situation:
<article class="article" data-id="washington-redskins-19252" data-behavior="story_scroll story_progress" data-src="/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/19252/redskins-rg-iii-reach-critical-point-even-though-its-just-the-preseason">
  • Griffin needs to play well at Baltimore on Saturday to build some confidence that he can get it done. The Redskins seem intent on starting him this season, but naming someone the starter doesn’t automatically give everyone confidence in that person. That part must be earned; the way to do it is by responding to a horrific game with a good one. You don't want to panic; but you must lay out reality and know what sort of outing is needed.
</article>

  • One thought from the multiple NFL people I communicated with over the weekend (scouts, executives, former executives and players) was unanimous: Quarterbacks do not improve their pocket presence and you can't win if they don't have any. And when you’re in your fourth training camp and still struggle in this area? Not good. It’s not going to change and if we’re seeing it – or other football people around the league are seeing it -- you can bank on it that the Redskins see it as well. Without it, there will be problems, and he'll take unnecessary hits. That's the most troubling part -- there are times he'll get hit regardless, like any quarterback. But Griffin still isn't doing enough to protect himself and to avoid further punishment.


  • The Redskins were genuinely encouraged by some early signs -- I saw and heard the positives. But it can be difficult to get a good read on pocket presence in practice. You’re in shorts and the rushers pull up. In games, it’s a different speed and flaws are magnified. The Lions game exposed some of those flaws -- the line contributed, no doubt, but no quarterback ever has a clean pocket all game. You need to learn how to operate when there is mayhem. Pro golfers are great because they can escape trouble under pressure that even scratch golfers could not. The same is true of great quarterbacks; subtle steps and slides in the pocket buy enough time to complete throws when protection breaks down. Griffin plays courageously, we’ve all seen that. But he must show a level of consistency as a passer.


  • When Griffin runs in practice, there’s a bigger cheer from the crowd. Saw this on two occasions Sunday and I get it: They want that old dynamic player back. But, at this point, the cheering should be reserved for the 20-yard pass into a tight window. That’s something worth getting excited about; it would show growth in his game. At this point, the running often reveals what he’s not doing. The coaches would be thrilled to see the throw, especially if he moves up in the pocket or slides a certain way before unloading the ball.


  • I said this last week and will say it again: A quarterback with poor pocket presence playing behind a line with two new starters on the right side is a recipe for disaster. There will be games the line breaks down; what happens then? You will get hit, but you can still make plays. There will be games this might work based on the style of the opposing defense -- some enable the Redskins to incorporate Griffin’s legs more into the game plan. Or if the run game is excelling, as it should some weeks, they can manipulate the defense better and create favorable situations. That's the hope. With receiver DeSean Jackson, the big downfield play is always one pass away. The question isn’t whether or not this can work for one week, it’s about doing it for 16 -- and winning.


  • The problem vs. Detroit in addition to bad down-and-distance situations, was facing a team whose ends align a little wider. If you’re not running well -- the first offense did not -- then it’s hard to run bootlegs vs. a team in this situation. To be a consistent quarterback, you have to handle multiple assignments and patterns. At this point, Griffin might look good or passable one game and bad the next. This isn’t about conspiracy theories, and it’s not just because of the line (contributing factor, absolutely). When you’re in your fourth season and the past two went poorly, the blame is assigned to one place. Yes, other issues exist. But they do for other quarterbacks as well.

  • The talk of play-calls or if coach Jay Gruden is somehow making it personal misses the point. If there is some mandate to start Griffin and stick with him, then it’s on Gruden and the offensive staff to make it work.


  • This isn’t about personality or popularity. It’s about performance. If you want to keep the job, you have to consistently play at a certain level, or at least exhibit signs of getting to that point. If it’s true for 52 others, it should be true for all. We’re past the point of the investment and “needing to see”. We’re at the point where you have to go by what you see.
 
You seriously reduced that report to "Keim is anti-Robert?"
 
I do think Keim has a bias against Robert but I still respect the heck out of his reporting. He tries his best to keep his analysis as objective as possible. I consider him the best reporter on the Redskins beat in terms of actual reporting of facts, but I do think he dislikes Robert. The tone in some of his articles has made that fairly clear.
 
tr1 said:
Fan, damn Robert for trying to make lemonade out of some very, very sour lemons.

He should never go for a first down, but instead, opt for a check-down and get off the field.

Of course, the next line would be his inability to move the chains....:rolleyes:

I'm afraid he's doomed in DC. I hope he just gets shipped somewhere outside the division.
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While I see your angle, and to some level you are correct, I simply bring up the ever continuing thread that I've seen (not specifically from you) about how "it's only preseason, Gruden should protect him." Why can't the same thing be asked of Griffin? Why can't he realize it's better to live to fight another day? He's a competitor and I understand that... I want him to want to win at all costs. What I also want to see is him learning the difference between forcing a ball, forcing HIMSELF, the mental clock going off, and making a smart play allowing us to fight another day. His struggle isn't his competitive nature, it's his failure to read the field. If he were to drop back, have instant pressure and dump it off, I'd at least be happy with the fact that he diagnosed it the way he did and hit his guy. I would be ok with us forfeiting a 1st down in the preseason because it's something he hasn't been able to do consistently in the past. It's progress.
 
I have to admit... it's not hard to see Keim doesn't care for Robert and lets that affect his reporting. How many other players will he complement, then qualify that with some other statement after? Robert has made his own bed many times... no doubt. The same time, Keim has made no secret about his own feelings in the way he reports. The rest of his reporting is complementary, even when reaching to find growth in other weaknesses on the team, but Robert... always a veiled complement or outright dislike.

Nick
 
When RG3 has multiple all pros and superbowl wins... we can talk about how he should be treated the same as Tom Brady

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
SilentThreat said:
When RG3 has multiple all pros and superbowl wins... we can talk about how he should be treated the same as Tom Brady
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No one is suggesting that. The only thing said is that Keim seeks out ways to say things about Robert even when the report has nothing to do with him. Whether he's playing to a crowd or whatever, that's what he does.

Nick
 
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