RG may yet suceed, but were the firsts wasted?

[McD5]

Boone, season 4. Where he tore his knee up in college.

That's not a real confidence-inspiring track record.

 

[MikeSr619]

Was that before his Heisman and then rookie of the year and his divisional championship and 6 interceptions and all those other things he did?

 

[stevenaa]

I was more than willing to gamble the firsts to get him. But, I'm not willing to take a lot of risk re-signing him which will have to happen next year because he's UFA the year after. With his injury, does that give him enough time to fully develop to the point that re-signing him is a no brainer, or will we still be faced with uncertainties? I'm not sure there are enough games left before a decision has to be made. He did not display any improvement in the pocket the first game. He started off well game 2 doing what suits his skill set. I suppose he won't be in a position to really demand a large contract, so it may not be such a risk to re-sign him from that perspective.

 

[Boone]

Okay McD5 - fair enough. But I'm not sure 2 traumatic injuries and a freak one make the guy a liability. He's just had some really rotten luck. It's not like I'm oblivious to the concern about durability - I'm concerned about durability. He can't be a hero for us in rehab. I get that. But the final chapter has not been written on the guy. And despite the injuries he's had, he's mostly made fools of his critics over the course of his young career. I'm betting he'll make fools of those who write him off after only 2 full NFL seasons as well.

 

[Elephant]

With all your vision of everything can you really say you saw that happening with him jumping over a linebacker to the side?

He didn't put too much pressure, it was a freak accident and not reckless abandon. He was scrambling and hit the receiver even after hurting himself.

As much as I think you have valid points you say things like "drama queen" and make it seem like it's personal. It makes it hard to think you take a look at him without having a bias.

I have a bias...I think that's obvious. I do not like the fact that we traded 4 picks to choose him. I am still angry about it. But the kid thrives on attention...he loves to be the spotlight. He is a drama queen.

As for his "freak" accident...had he thrown the ball away and not tried too hard to make something happen...he would not have "planted" the ankle at full speed, dislocating his ankle.

Freak accident? How many other qb's,. rb's and wr's "plant their feet and don't have "freak" accidents?

 

[Dead Money]

I was more than willing to gamble the firsts to get him. But, I'm not willing to take a lot of risk re-signing him which will have to happen next year because he's UFA the year after. With his injury, does that give him enough time to fully develop to the point that re-signing him is a no brainer, or will we still be faced with uncertainties? I'm not sure there are enough games left before a decision has to be made. He did not display any improvement in the pocket the first game. He started off well game 2 doing what suits his skill set. I suppose he won't be in a position to really demand a large contract, so it may not be such a risk to re-sign him from that perspective.

We do have a fifth year option on him. Not that the pricetag seems to fit in with your line of thinking... or mine.

What effect does Kaepernick?s deal have on RG3, Redskins? | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

Griffin’s deal has two more years to run and under CBA rules a player’s rookie deal can’t be renegotiated until only one year remains so nothing can be done this year. Since Griffin was a first-round draft pick, the Redskins have a fifth-year option on him that will keep him under team control for the 2016 season at a salary of about $15 million.

 

[Elephant]

You know I meant NFC East Championship - you dick!

I think you would be better off just cutting to the chase and admitting you don't like the guy. When you diminish his rookie accomplishments like that and use terms like 'the only reason' - that's just not true. The guy was accurate as hell and made very few mistakes (compare his INT % his rookie year with that of DemiGod Andrew Luck). He doesn't grasp the offense? You mean the brand new offense he's had all of, what 3-4 months to learn? Oh my God - how could that happen!!! He is young and still learning. He has a lot of great qualities. I think you are incredibly harsh on the kid.

I have criticized him as much as anyone (other than maybe you!). But I do ultimately believe he can be an incredible QB. It's okay just to say that you'd rather he not be our QB and that you don't like him. Nothing wrong with that.

Umm...Kirk has had the same time to learn this offense and looks much more comfortable than Robert did. I mean come on John...Robert had to come out with a 12 yard run on 1st down to try to get things going.

In his rookie year he threw far fewer passes than most QB's in the league who played as many games as he did. It was a gimmick offense that fit his style perfectly. Take the gimmick out...look what you have.

 

[Elephant]

Hey Brian, I do want to say one final thing - and that's that I admire your ability to stick to your guns and calmly state your case even when it is a minority position. Seriously - that's the way you do it - and although I don't agree I think you do a great job of not taking it personally.

If you turn out to be right, we'll sadly have to proclaim you smarter than all the rest of us - so that's the silver lining.

But john...I already know I am!

 

[MikeSr619]

I have a bias...I think that's obvious. I do not like the fact that we traded 4 picks to choose him. I am still angry about it. But the kid thrives on attention...he loves to be the spotlight. He is a drama queen.

As for his "freak" accident...had he thrown the ball away and not tried too hard to make something happen...he would not have "planted" the ankle at full speed, dislocating his ankle.

Freak accident? How many other qb's,. rb's and wr's "plant their feet and don't have "freak" accidents?

How many other people drive to work every day and don't get in an accident? You now think those who do are less because of it?

Everyone thrives on the attention. He uses it for good causes. It's just you don't like it is all.

Like I said, I get it. But I guess I just don't believe what you do.

 

[Elephant]

I was more than willing to gamble the firsts to get him. But, I'm not willing to take a lot of risk re-signing him which will have to happen next year because he's UFA the year after. With his injury, does that give him enough time to fully develop to the point that re-signing him is a no brainer, or will we still be faced with uncertainties? I'm not sure there are enough games left before a decision has to be made. He did not display any improvement in the pocket the first game. He started off well game 2 doing what suits his skill set. I suppose he won't be in a position to really demand a large contract, so it may not be such a risk to re-sign him from that perspective.

Actually, we can exercise the 5th year option with he and Kirk...

Can someone confirm or deny the option for Kirk.

 

[Boone]

The coaches called that play, not Griffin. Now you're just being snarky I agree that Cousins is a quicker learner, but he also played in a pro style offense at Michigan State - he's always been ahead of Robert on execution. But he's still always going to be 'Mary Anne' to Robert's 'Ginger', professor.

Yeah, you're right. Except for being electric, explosive, and a danger to score on every play, he was just average.

 

[Dead Money]

Umm...Kirk has had the same time to learn this offense and looks much more comfortable than Robert did. I mean come on John...Robert had to come out with a 12 yard run on 1st down to try to get things going.

In his rookie year he threw far fewer passes than most QB's in the league who played as many games as he did. It was a gimmick offense that fit his style perfectly. Take the gimmick out...look what you have.

I'm been saying the same to a lot of RG3 fanboys supporters for the past couple of weeks. Not calling you guys here fanboys...There's enough of them out there.

I'll add that Kirk managed to pick this offense up very quickly considering most of his time during the regular season is spent running the scout team. Makes his stats for the last 7 quarters stand out more to me.

 

[Elephant]

How many other people drive to work every day and don't get in an accident? You now think those who do are less because of it?

Everyone thrives on the attention. He uses it for good causes. It's just you don't like it is all.

Like I said, I get it. But I guess I just don't believe what you do.

Well Mike, if those drivers are getting in accidents because they are being reckless, then yes...I think they are responsible for it. We are not talking about a guy who gets t-boned because some kid is texting...we are talking about the kid who is texting...Robert is the kid texting.

And no, I don't like his attention seeking. He just needs to shut the **** up and play. I cannot tell you how glad I was he was not on the sideline for the game Sunday to take away from the game itself. I hope they keep him off the sideline Thursday night too, but I doubt they will since it's a home game. He does not need to draw attention away from the team. He does not need to be on the sideline, but I am sure he will be and I am sure he will be chatting it up with players who are trying to concentrate on the game they are playing. It's just who the guy is. I have seen it on the sidelines for 3 seasons now, I have seen it on social media for nearly 3 years now.

I admit it. I am not a fan of Robert. I am a fan of the Redskins and I think our chances for greatness are with him gone.

 

[Elephant]

Yeah, you're right. Except for being electric, explosive, and a danger to score on every play, he was just average.

Because he could run! He can't run anymore.

And John...I always preferred Mary Anne.

Oh and they called that play for Robert for a reason. You'll notice, Kirk's first play from scrimmage was not a called run.

 

[MikeSr619]

You're not a fan..that's all i need to hear. All the rest falls to the side.

 

[Gulf Coast Redskin]

Good point on the cap penalty, and you may be right there. Thanks for the reminder. Tried to block that one out completely.

Good week to be reminded, going into a game against those cheaters.

I agree with the cap penalty assessment but I also believe there have been other factors, also unrelated to RG3 & the trades to get him. Whoever is in charge of talent evaluation & scouting, I believe has been the real issue. Why is it that thousands of fans can see where the real problems on the field are, but somehow they get completely missed by those who are creating the scenario in which those holes exist? I think, from the late eighties on, we have struggled to get the right personnel for a plethora of reasons. From cap space to bad FO decisions. But I also think that some of gaping holes have been, for the most part filled & are starting to show signs of improvement exposing the other areas needing to be addressed.

As far as the initial question in the OP, I do not believe those picks were wasted either. I think the coaches need to stop trying to force him to be something he's not. He will never succeed being a "pocket passer" without the use of his other talents. The man can throw accurately downfield off his back foot on the run. Why would they WANT to stifle that? Protecting him by trying to keep him in the pocket is a ruse when they can't protect him in the pocket. But I definitely believe that he was totally worth each & every pick we gave up for him.

 

[CounterTrey]

"Until and unless we address the line problems Griffin will be unable to stay healthy...nor will any other QB. It's so depressing as a fan."

CT, what games are you watching? Because they sure aren't Redskins games.

We have one of the top offensive lines in the country this season. Cousins had all day to throw. 0 sacks.

I have no idea why this keeps popping up.

It's not the O-line.

Look McD I LOVE your enthusiasm and am happy you are such a huge fan of Gruden's. That said you need to back up with that lame sentiment. The fact that you think our O line is one of the best in the league speaks volumes as to how clouded your judgement is in regards to Gruden. I have refrained from commenting on it until now, because like I said I like it and don't begrudge it, but when you start with insulting rhetoric then it's a problem. Like I said your enthusiasm is to be commended, but don't confuse your enthusiasm for a bump in acumen when it comes to observing the team. Quite the opposite based on the best in the league comment.

 

[CounterTrey]

Because he could run! He can't run anymore.

And John...I always preferred Mary Anne.

Oh and they called that play for Robert for a reason. You'll notice, Kirk's first play from scrimmage was not a called run.

Well E that's just flat out not true. Split times from camp said he HAD gotten his burst and top end speed back. That's one that the naysayers have been using that is just a flat out lie, and it's one of the main reasons this debate goes on endlessly. The premise has to be an accurate one or the whole debate is built on a foundation of bullcrap and will never come to an honest conclsuion.

And that 1st play to Young is EXACTLY what they would have called for Griffin, don't be silly. Cousins coming in didn't make a simple fade to the outside more likely than it would have been with Griffin. Wow the spin is just getting epic now.

 

[Gulf Coast Redskin]

Well E that's just flat out not true. Split times from camp said he HAD gotten his burst and top end speed back. That's one that the naysayers have been using that is just a flat out lie, and it's one of the main reasons this debate goes on endlessly. The premise has to be an accurate one or the whole debate is built on a foundation of bullcrap and will never come to an honest conclsuion.

I agree with this. Griffin was looking pretty speedy when he ran around against the Browns in pre-season. He also looked fast on that first play against the Jags. His speed isn't the issue. Neither is his accuracy. Griffin has the ability to throw downfield accurately, middle field, & dump-offs. The problem is that they are trying to make him into something he is not. They are making him rethink his strategy & forcing him to think rather than react.

Now, this is not entirely a bad thing. Changing his methodology will help him long-term if they can reprogram him not to run after his first read. However, right now, that's causing a hesitation in him & he is questioning his every decision. It would happen to any one of us if we get set in our ways & are told those ways are hurting us more than helping & are forced to rethink the way we do them. We, as fans, need to be patient with his transition.

And that 1st play to Young is EXACTLY what they would have called for Griffin, don't be silly. Cousins coming in didn't make a simple fade to the outside more likely than it would have been with Griffin. Wow the spin is just getting epic now.

Again, I agree. The biggest gap between RG3 & Cousins is that Cousins can make his reads faster & gets the ball out of his hand quicker. The O-Line hasn't been that bad for Cousins because he gets the ball out quicker. For Griffin, the O-Line is a sieve because he takes longer to make his reads & throw the ball.

I love RG3 because I think he has talent that is rarely seen. I've said it before, but Griffin can throw an accurate pass off his back foot on the run. I know people seem to think that Cousins is more accurate, but I also think that's part of the spin people have been putting on this argument. They are both great QBs, in my opinion & we have a good problem to have. Better to have 2 good QBs fighting for a starting position rather than 2 mediocre QBs that no one likes. We've been there too often. But I think, an honest assessment will prove that they are equally good, just in different areas. Unfortunately for Griffin, tho, this offense is run better by Cousins right now. And so Cousins should stay the starter until he proves he no longer deserves to be there.

 

[Riggotoni]

Well, I would gladly trade Griffin and a 3rd to get either Russell Wilson or Nick Foles plus all of our other picks back. I HATED the trade when it happened, but thought I had been completely wrong once the 2012 season took off. Now, I just don't see him lasting more than 5 years in the NFL.
Just remember, it could be worse. Holmgren used his 2 1sts to draft Trent Richardson and Brandon Weeden. Would you trade Kirk Cousins and AlMo for those two?