Random Commanders Thoughts

[Boone]

Kind of where I'm at BD. Redskins shouldn't overthink this one. Only caveat - they get some ridiculous trade up offer.

 

[ntotoro]

LaVar Arrington: Haskins has the kind of physical upside at qb that the Redskins should go with Chase Young at #2. The other teams linked to Tua have nothing at the qb position and are more ready to take the risk on his availability due to injury history, etc.

I'm actually wondering whether Young is the right pick at #2 simply because LaVar bases picking him on Haskins’ “physical upside.”

 

[Win4us]

I'm actually wondering whether Young is the right pick at #2 simply because LaVar bases picking him on Haskins’ “physical upside.”

I’d second guess ANY recommendation coming from Lavar

 

[Boone]

Urban Meyer on Haskins...

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I'm actually wondering whether Young is the right pick at #2 simply because LaVar bases picking him on Haskins’ “physical upside.”

I’d second guess ANY recommendation coming from Lavar

Well, thankfully Lavar is not making this decision or any other decision for this team. He's a talking head these days and whether his opinions are right or wrong, he's going to say them.

 

[Win4us]

Well, thankfully Lavar is not making this decision or any other decision for this team. He's a talking head these days and whether his opinions are right or wrong, he's going to say them.

True dat, it’s depressing hearing these radio/tv personalities always going for the ‘hot take’ to gain attention, when in reality they know better. In lavar’s case maybe not but still

 

[Hog Fever]

Urban Meyer on Haskins...

Interesting. I think there are some conclusions that can be reasonably drawn from this exchange. I'll take a shot at a few.

- It looks like Rivera and company are still trying to learn everything they can about our current QB. The fact that Ron and Co place a great deal of value on the insight a player's coach has on the player is very good news to me, and is a good sign for the draft. Who would know the player better than his coach if you can trust he will shoot straight? Meyer at least thinks Rivera is going about things the right way. That counts for something. It also raises the question: Did Jay and Allen actually talk to Meyer before the draft last year? If so did they place any value in what he had to say? Did they listen but were overruled by Snyder on draft day, as some have suggested?

- Meyer called the group that met with Rivera "Rivera and his GM". Probably a slip of the tongue. I'm guessing he's talking about Kyle Smith? Either way he seemed complementary. I'll take that as another good sign.

- The reservations Meyer had about Haskins when he entered the draft and, more importantly for us, what team he was drafted to, seems reasonable. One good college season doesn't make you NFL ready. Another year or two as a starter may have hurt or helped Haskins' draft stock but it certainly would have made him more NFL ready. I think staying in school was probably the advice Meyer gave to Haskins before he declared for the draft. Additionally, as hard as this is to say, as a franchise we aren't exactly the model of stability when it comes to anything, except being unstable.

- Meyer says Haskins will be good IF he's surrounded with excellent players. No sh*t Urban. You could say that about every QB in the league. that's hardly a ringing endorsement. Obviously we'd rather have QBs who makes everyone else better rather than someone who just ok. Guys who are heavily roster dependent should be drafted in the 4th or 5th round, not the 1st. We'll know a lot more by the end of this season.

Am I pulling too much from this exchange?

 

[Boone]

I think you're interpreting more negatively than it warrants. I believe he talked about Haskins having the greatest season ever by an OSU QB and one of the greatest college seasons in history. He also denied that it was Haskins 'maturity' that was an issue but stated that it was 'inexperience' that was his only concern. He only did it for a single season and that would mean some growing pains at the NFL level where everyone is a star. I doubt Meyer said anything radically different if they did talk to him last year, although of course there are going to be things said in private that wouldn't be said in public - about ANY QB potentially being drafted that highly. And I think he said that Haskins could be a great QB with the talent around him, not a 'good' one (not to split hairs). I think that's the kind of interview that folks will find whatever they want to find in it.

The most interesting part was that Rivera has clearly spent some serious time speaking with Meyer about Haskins. One has to think that if Meyer gave him bad feedback on Dwayne, such as 'the kid's a real prima donna' or 'Dwayne's all about Dwayne' or 'I'm not sure his work ethic is ever going to be where you expect it to be' that would have a big impact. If you're sitting there with the #2 pick, and the coach who knows Haskins best is telling you - he's not going to be the guy you need - one would think taking a QB with that pick would be the move. But he may have gotten mostly good reviews on Haskins or, perhaps they were mixed reviews but Rivera likes what he has in Kyle Allen.

We just don't know and will have to see how it all plays out.

 

[ntotoro]

The other way to take the conversation with Meyer is that Rivera walked away from it saying “M’kay, thanks” and traded a 5th for Allen.

My armchair prediction... Allen winds up the starter by the end of the season, becomes the de facto started, Haskins is kept while cheap and eventually traded for a 5th while the team drafts a new long-term starter within the next two years. I just don’t see any situation where Haskins has shown any form of mental maturity to make it in the NFL. When has a player at that position ever started ad a knucklehead and ever turned it around?

 

[Om]

Love the Attaboy Chorus on those Tua throws ... lol.

My take on him hasn't changed ... he's going to be a good pro--maybe great in stretches in the right situation. But if it's my team, I don't take him as the second overall pick, even if I don't already have a young 1st round QB on my roster. Not with the injury uncertainty. If I'm taking a QB that high, it's gonna be on a guy that I have zero injury concerns about.

 

[DieselPwr44]

When has a player at that position ever started ad a knucklehead and ever turned it around?

Ummm, Bret Favre?
Nobody knows who Haskins the player is yet. Nobody.
Same goes for Mclaurin, Harmon and Sims.
We’ve seen flashes, both good and bad but no definitive answer.
Yet here the fan base is, hinting around about moving on from young players that were thrown into one of the worst environments to develop in ,with a coaching staff in flux.
Yet the fan base still proclaims “ We have the patience for a rebuild and player development “

Funny stuff right there....

 

[Boone]

Interesting thoughts @ntororo...

It's of course possible that Rivera has concerns about Haskins. That could be based on pre-draft assessments, tape review, input from previous coaches, personal convos, etc... It's possible. But on the other hand, he could really like his potential. And of course, there's the trade for Kyle Allen (although common sense says they HAD to have another QB with Smith's health such a question mark). My question is, if your 'could be' is on target, and we're sitting there at pick #2 - do we really think they won't draft a QB? There's zero guarantee we'll be in a similar draft spot anytime soon. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. I really think - if Rivera doesn't believe in Haskins or feels he knows already what he needs to know - they'll draft a QB in 10 days.

I would be less surprised if Allen wins the starting role (although I think its more likely he earns it outright given that he is quite talented and has a leg up with knowledge of the offense).

On the 'maturity' thing - I think fans and the media have been awfully hard on the guy. He'll occasionally make a 'huh?' or seemingly 'feeling sorry for myself' Twitter post but they are always cryptic so hard to judge how much that is a window into his 'maturity'. Other than jumping into the crowd and missing a play as a result, what's he done that shows 'immaturity'? I chalk that up to excitement and inexperience. And he was very contrite after it happened and stated repeatedly he had learned from it and it wouldn't happen again. Anyway - I think the 'immature' label may be a little unfair.

Finally - there's a 3rd possibility that might deserve some consideration.

I think it's possible that Rivera thinks he already has his long-term starter on the roster... and it's not Haskins. Kyle Allen showed some real potential in his starts in Carolina. If he hadn't gotten sacked a record # of times he'd have been even more impressive.. I believe Rivera doesn't just 'like' Allen - he loves the guy. Watch out for that dynamic.

 

[Boone]

Ummm, Bret Favre?
Nobody knows who Haskins the player is yet. Nobody.
Same goes for Mclaurin, Harmon and Sims.
We’ve seen flashes, both good and bad but no definitive answer.
Yet here the fan base is, hinting around about moving on from young players that were thrown into one of the worst environments to develop in ,with a coaching staff in flux.
Yet the fan base still proclaims “ We have the patience for a rebuild and player development “

Funny stuff right there....

That tendency is irritating, but remember that it doesn't matter what the fanbase thinks. Like all solid coaches, Rivera could care less what the fanbase wants/thinks. And McLaurin didn't have 'flashes'. He had one of the best rookie WRs in the NFL on a bad team with multiple QBs under center. He's absolutely a WR#1.

 

[Om]

The other way to take the conversation with Meyer is that Rivera walked away from it saying “M’kay, thanks” and traded a 5th for Allen.

My armchair prediction... Allen winds up the starter by the end of the season, becomes the de facto started, Haskins is kept while cheap and eventually traded for a 5th while the team drafts a new long-term starter within the next two years. I just don’t see any situation where Haskins has shown any form of mental maturity to make it in the NFL. When has a player at that position ever started ad a knucklehead and ever turned it around?

I'm curious about something, brother. Have you always been down on Haskins, or is your negative take on him now the result of something that happened last year, either on or off the field?

 

[ntotoro]

Ummm, Bret Favre?
Nobody knows who Haskins the player is yet. Nobody.
Same goes for Mclaurin, Harmon and Sims.
We’ve seen flashes, both good and bad but no definitive answer.
Yet here the fan base is, hinting around about moving on from young players that were thrown into one of the worst environments to develop in ,with a coaching staff in flux.
Yet the fan base still proclaims “ We have the patience for a rebuild and player development “

Funny stuff right there....

Bad FO’s also draft bad players or reach too high for them. Am I hoping I’m wrong? I really don’t even actually care, oddly enough. I just don’t have any emotional attachment to him since I don’t think he’ll be here in a couple years.

 

[ntotoro]

I'm curious about something, brother. Have you always been down on Haskins, or is your negative take on him now the result of something that happened last year, either on or off the field?

You know what... I really don’t even know. Sure, I was bothered by his obvious emotional immaturity at times, but there’s just something I can’t put a finger on. Everyone looks amazing in highlight reels, but it’s the spaces in time between those moments. I just don’t see it, that thing. It’s like watching a more athletic Jason Campbell or a less dickish Jeff George. I wished to God I could put a finger on what it was.

 

[Om]

You know what... I really don’t even know. Sure, I was bothered by his obvious emotional immaturity at times, but there’s just something I can’t put a finger on. Everyone looks amazing in highlight reels, but it’s the spaces in time between those moments. I just don’t see it, that thing. It’s like watching a more athletic Jason Campbell or a less dickish Jeff George. I wished to God I could put a finger on what it was.

That's fair--thanks for the straight answer.

A couple of weeks ago I went back and watched the last few games of the year (condensed versions) so I could take a look at Haskins' with fresh eyes and w/o all the negative emotions of watching them live as the team once again shat the bed on a season. And I walked away thinking that the guy who took the field against the Giants, and the guy who finished the season, were not the same player. To me the difference was really night and day.

What I saw by the end of the season was a guy that looked to me like an NFL quarterback in the making. Still very raw, no doubt--but with emerging poise and what look like natural instincts that in a good situation could turn into something worth waiting for. And that ARM.

To me his career really starts this season. He's had a year to figure out he's not BMOC any more and has to work at it. He'll have a solid coaching staff around him. He'll have a guy pushing him at QB2 to both earn/keep the job, and learn from. Given all that, I do have expectations of him now, where last year I just wanted to see if he had the physical tools. I think he does, based on the progression I saw on the field.

Now we'll find out if he's going to be a professional. It won't take long to assess.

 

[Hog Fever]

I'm with ntotoro here. I was hoping the Giants would end up with Haskins, because I hate them. How many one year wonders have turned out to be busts in the NFL? More than I can count or care to remember. I wanted them to roll the dice, not us.

Haskins hasn't given me anything in particular in what he's done to dislike him. I want him to be good, honestly. Hell, I want him to be great. I just don't get the feeling he's going to be. I hope I can look back on this thread in a year or two and happily say "I was wrong".

To complicate things it looks like we might have the same situation with Rivera/Allen that we had with Gruden/McCoy. We shall see.

 

[CounterTrey]

Interesting thoughts @ntororo...

It's of course possible that Rivera has concerns about Haskins. That could be based on pre-draft assessments, tape review, input from previous coaches, personal convos, etc... It's possible. But on the other hand, he could really like his potential. And of course, there's the trade for Kyle Allen (although common sense says they HAD to have another QB with Smith's health such a question mark). My question is, if your 'could be' is on target, and we're sitting there at pick #2 - do we really think they won't draft a QB? There's zero guarantee we'll be in a similar draft spot anytime soon. That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. I really think - if Rivera doesn't believe in Haskins or feels he knows already what he needs to know - they'll draft a QB in 10 days.

I would be less surprised if Allen wins the starting role (although I think its more likely he earns it outright given that he is quite talented and has a leg up with knowledge of the offense).

On the 'maturity' thing - I think fans and the media have been awfully hard on the guy. He'll occasionally make a 'huh?' or seemingly 'feeling sorry for myself' Twitter post but they are always cryptic so hard to judge how much that is a window into his 'maturity'. Other than jumping into the crowd and missing a play as a result, what's he done that shows 'immaturity'? I chalk that up to excitement and inexperience. And he was very contrite after it happened and stated repeatedly he had learned from it and it wouldn't happen again. Anyway - I think the 'immature' label may be a little unfair.

Finally - there's a 3rd possibility that might deserve some consideration.

I think it's possible that Rivera thinks he already has his long-term starter on the roster... and it's not Haskins. Kyle Allen showed some real potential in his starts in Carolina. If he hadn't gotten sacked a record # of times he'd have been even more impressive.. I believe Rivera doesn't just 'like' Allen - he loves the guy. Watch out for that dynamic.

I think there's a 4th possibility here that I haven't seen mentioned much. It's also possible Rivera has done his homework on Haskins and actually likes what he sees but recognizes the need for longer term development. They brought in Allen as both a stop gap and a good mentor for Haskins to learn the art of the game and being a professional from. It does haven't to be nearly as threatening as it's been made out. If Haskins has decent self awareness then he's started to realize he probably needs to sit and watch a bit longer on game day.

 

[Om]

Acknowledged, CT.

A few weeks ago I was saying that I don't think Rivera even considers the Redskins job if he isn't convinced Haskins can be the guy. First day, he was asked about his model for building a team, and the first thing out of his mouth was 'get a franchise qb', then protect him. At that time, Tua was not on the radar--he hadn't even begun working out yet and there was zero talk about him being ready to play. We weren't going to go after Brady, or Rivers, or any other old expensive vet. Burrow was not an option. So does Ron accept a job for a 3-13 team with a reputation for suck--a team with Haskins, an expensive old vet on crutches, and Colt McCoy--if he doesn't think he can win with one of those three guys? I say no.

Ron said he spent time studying the roster and he felt good about what he saw. To me, it's clear he included in that assessment the most important piece of the puzzle in his model. And if he had been thinking Kyle Allen was the answer then, and that he'd absolutely positively be able to land him and lock him up ... well ... does anyone think that?

Anyway ... my feeling hasn't changed. I think we're taking Chase (or some other teams' entire draft pick allotment for the next two seasons), and doing everything we can to solidify an OL and a system to protect him.

Nothing new there. Just repaving this little stretch of road.