Random Commanders Thoughts

[fansince62]

I do not watch very much college ball. So I depend on some who do. Have read concerns about him being brittle, as well. Even while not getting hit much in college. Some say he won't be so lucky in the pros. Where he is likely to get hit early, and often, by the bigger, stronger, more consistently good NFL defenders.

Especially if drafted high by a team that lacks talent on the o-line.

 

[Elephant]

If Tua failed 2 physicals, any possible trade down is never going to happen...which I think is less and less likely the closer we get to the draft. He could fall out of the top 10.

And if true, Tampa should draft him with their mid 1st round pick to sit behind Brady and learn while he heals. Maybe the Saints or packers if by chance he fell that far. Hell...if I were the Saints and I saw him tumbling in the1st round, it might be worth it to trade up some to get him to sit behind Brees for one, maybe 2 more years.

Otherwise, he'll be thrown to the wolves way too early as fan has suggested.

 

[Hog Fever]

Let me say for the record that I have no ax to grind against Haskins. That said I think picking up Allen was smart for all of the reasons others have laid out. I honestly don't care who plays QB. I'd just like someone to play the position well enough to win some ball games. I don't care what round he was drafted in or any of the other contributing factors.

As we all know; there are lies, damn lies, and stats. So here are some stats from Pro Football Reference:

Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Rate	Lng	Int	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	NY/A	ANY/A	Att	Yds	TD	Y/A	Lng
1	Kyle Allen	2018	2019	8	15	6-7-0	323	520	62.1	3588	19	82.0	53	16	46	397	6.9	6.25	5.64	5.04	37	125	3	3.4	17
2	Dwayne Haskins	2019	2019	3	9	2-5-0	119	203	58.6	1365	7	76.1	75	7	29	204	6.7	5.86	5.00	4.25	20	101	0	5.1	23
3	Daniel Jones	2019	2019	9	13	3-9-0	284	459	61.9	3027	24	87.7	75	12	38	295	6.6	6.46	5.50	5.38	45	279	2	6.2	26

These stats don't prove anything. I'm just throwing raw meat to the lions.

 

[MikefromOH]

raw meat to the lions...or Gruden throwing Haskins in to a game

 

[Elephant]

raw meat to the lions...or Gruden throwing Haskins in to a game

Gruden was/is a dirtbag. Horrible head coach and his tenure here will forever mar his "legacy."

With that said, the one thing I didn't mind about Gruden was that he knew how to give the front office the middle finger when he knew better than they did. It worked to get rid of RG3, and I think it was good for Haskins to get thrown out there like he did.
Gruden knew the kid wasn't ready, but the FO wanted him behind center.

I think it was good & Haskins learned what it was like to be an NFL QB with talent, but sorely unprepared.

Look at Jones regression over the course of the season, opposed to Haskins progression. You could clearly see Jones was more ready for the NFL than Haskins, but when Haskins caught up he was the better player. I think Haskins was a lot like I was when I played sports, I was naturally talented so I didn't work as hard until it was made obvious by my coach I needed to work harder.

If Tua were to be thrown to the wolves like that with uncertainty around his health, it could end any chance he has at becoming an NFL QB.

 

[Ax]

I don't give The Loser much credit for the Griffin move.
He was too sack-less to do it by himself. The Drunk gets most of the credit as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Boone]

I liked Gruden generally speaking. I think he is a decent guy, and as you noted, he wasn't afraid to go his own way where he could regardless of what Snyder or Allen wanted. As far as coaching goes, had they kept Cousins and had we not had literally epic injuries multiple years running, we'd have been a playoff team most years. That's my opinion. He definitely knew how to design an offense. But I think his downfall ultimately was his stubbornness. He brought in DCs who were terrible. I think Haslett was forced on him. But first chance he gets to bring in his own choice and what does he do? Hires a guy who literally was one of the worst DCs ever in Joe Barry, while Wade Phillips is sitting there unemployed. Manusky wasn't much better. How it's possible we couldn't find a DC better than these 3 guys was the biggest mystery of his time in DC - and the failure to find a DC who would use a scheme our players could actually thrive in - ultimately cost Gruden his gig.

 

[Boone]

I don't give The Loser much credit for the Griffin move.
He was too sack-less to do it by himself. The Drunk gets most of the credit as far as I'm concerned.

I think it was Gruden who stood his ground and said 'I'm not starting him'. I do not recall hearing much about McLovin being the one driving that decision. Doesn't mean he wasn't, I just don't remember him being mentioned as a driver. Gruden had more clout early on. He only lost it after we went down to the Packers in that home playoff game and the injury-riddled poor seasons that followed totally sapped him of whatever mojo he had.

 

[MikefromOH]

Gruden loved drama and having a clique of friends. every player that ever left here said the practices were a joke. He used to love to talk shit about people during media sessions, too.

Don't get Elephant started on Wade.....OOOOF!!

 

[Boone]

We weren't exactly running Parris Island boot camp at Redskins Park during Gruden's time

 

[Ax]

I think it was Gruden who stood his ground and said 'I'm not starting him'. I do not recall hearing much about McLovin being the one driving that decision. Doesn't mean he wasn't, I just don't remember him being mentioned as a driver. Gruden had more clout early on. He only lost it after we went down to the Packers in that home playoff game and the injury-riddled poor seasons that followed totally sapped him of whatever mojo he had.

I obviously disagree. Gruden didn't like Griffin 5 minutes after seeing him up close. But, being the gutless wonder he is, he didn't stand his ground. Just like, if it went like you believe, he allowed Haslett to be forced upon him. Which I also disagree with. His ego didn't want someone better than him (Son of Bum) to show him up. Then along comes The Drunk, who agreed with Gruden concerning Griffin, and after the "New GM Guru" chimed in, Gruden grew a small set.

Myself, and others, noticed his total lack of leadership qualities from the start. I believe Goaldy was one of the first to voice it around here.
He is Norval Gruden. Good coordinator. Turrable head coach. Weak, and petty. IMHO

 

[Bulldog]

What if Chase Young is Ray Lewis and Tua is Philip Rivers?

Rivers has been a very productive qb and showed the ability to produce over 15 years in the NFL.

But Lewis was a consummate leader and perhaps the best defender of his generation.

With great picks at a number of positions the Ravens were able to build a team that was a consistent winner and won two SBs.

Lewis was a major part of those great defensive teams and Newsome was able to win titles with Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco at qb.

I think Rivera is trying to follow that model of development in building an all around excellent team by selecting the best prospects.

Yes you can go the Arizona route where you spend all of your draft capital at qb until you find a potential franchise performer.

But the other school is not to force a pick and go with the player that may very well be the top overall prospect available, Chase Young.

That type of approach allows good teams over time to take an Aaron Rodgers at #24 or a Dan Marino at #27 and not place such an emphasis on moving up or otherwise taking a qb in the top 10 to the detriment of building a complete team.

 

[Elephant]

Gruden loved drama and having a clique of friends. every player that ever left here said the practices were a joke. He used to love to talk shit about people during media sessions, too.

Don't get Elephant started on Wade.....OOOOF!!

Frickin Shanahan should have hired him as soon as Dallass let him go. But Haslett had pictures of someone, somewhere.

 

[Boone]

Ax ... I don’t disagree with most of that. All I stated was that Gruden put together some good offenses and that would’ve been enough to get us to the playoffs most of his years without the devastating injuries (as evidenced by the fact we were a playoff team when we were relatively healthy). I never said he was a good leader.

As for Haslett you’re being unrealistic. Snyder was already paying his former HC not to coach.He obviously didn’t want to add a DC to the charity rolls. There was also possibly the thought process that Haslett had been a HC and might be of some value to Gruden in his first HC gig.

Gruden deserves to get hammered for the DC moves after that but I don’t think Haslett was his call and it probably wouldn’t have mattered who the HC was - they were getting Haslett for a year.

 

[Ax]

On the one hand, if he's not "your guy", I can understand going after someone you think, will be.

On the other hand, already having a young, highly rated QB on the roster. Then adding another young QB you already know, with a years experience in the offense, there is not much smart about drafting another, and shit canning the other. All college players are a gamble. Some just more than others.

Having our potential QB already on the roster, I think it foolish to draft one this year.
My preference, as of this writing, is to draft Young and HOPE he is, at the very least, half as good as advertised. If he is indeed the rare dominant force many claim him to be, we will be closer to a return to relevance. Especially if Haskins has everybody saying by mid season, "Damn, I'm glad we didn't give up on him". Which I believe will be the case.
El will have to mow everyone's lawn for a month!

If we do trade out of #2, I think I'd obviously want to get as many picks as possible, while also landing Isaiah Simmons in the 1st. Don't even know if that's possible.

BB?

 

[Elephant]

I obviously disagree. Gruden didn't like Griffin 5 minutes after seeing him up close. But, being the gutless wonder he is, he didn't stand his ground. Just like, if it went like you believe, he allowed Haslett to be forced upon him. Which I also disagree with. His ego didn't want someone better than him (Son of Bum) to show him up. Then along comes The Drunk, who agreed with Gruden concerning Griffin, and after the "New GM Guru" chimed in, Gruden grew a small set.

Myself, and others, noticed his total lack of leadership qualities from the start. I believe Goaldy was one of the first to voice it around here.
He is Norval Gruden. Good coordinator. Turrable head coach. Weak, and petty. IMHO

I wanted Zimmer, was afraid Gruden was another Narvel.

 

[Elephant]

What if Chase Young is Ray Lewis and Tua is Philip Rivers?

Rivers has been a very productive qb and showed the ability to produce over 15 years in the NFL.

But Lewis was a consummate leader and perhaps the best defender of his generation.

Or, Chase could turn out like Mario Williams and Tua could turn out like Steve Young.

Yes you can go the Arizona route where you spend all of your draft capital at qb until you find a potential franchise performer.

This a complete misrepresentation of what Arizona did, more like what Cleveland has done over the past 20 years, starting with Tim Couch.

Arizona chose a QB in the first round in 18, who is likely a bust. So, when a new regime came in...they knew they needed a different style of QB and drafted Murray.

In fact...prior to the past 2 years, they hadn't drafted a QB in the 1st round since, Matt Leinart 13 years ago... 3 QB's total in the 1st round over a 30 year period dating back to 1990, less than the Skins.

 

[Ax]

As for Haslett you’re being unrealistic. Snyder was already paying his former HC not to coach.He obviously didn’t want to add a DC to the charity rolls. There was also possibly the thought process that Haslett had been a HC and might be of some value to Gruden in his first HC gig.

Gruden deserves to get hammered for the DC moves after that but I don’t think Haslett was his call and it probably wouldn’t have mattered who the HC was - they were getting Haslett for a year.

Didn't mean to imply you said something you didn't. Sorry if it came out like that.

But as for Haslett, I think I'm being totally realistic. In this way.

I don't have a problem saying what I think. As you well know. And I believe many things would be much better if people "said what they meant, and meant what they said". I also have no problem expressing my dislike, or unwillingness to do something I don't want to. So I do not accept for a second that the blame lies anywhere but with Gruden. He knew Snyder's rep. Hell, he had a brother with experience to talk to, about how to set his contract demands up with a guy like Snyder. If he didn't get his way, he could have walked away. He was one of the hot coordinators. He would have been a HC somewhere. So if he didn't have the power to have final say on staff and players, that's HIS fault. He accepted those conditions. The results were on him.

If, as reported, he had a guaranteed contract, he had all the power he needed to do it his way.

 

[Elephant]

After watching this clip, I have to say the ball does not seem to be coming out of this kid's hand like it was when he was playing at full speed. I don't care what anyone says, watching this video has completely soured me on Tua in this draft unless he drops to our 3rd round pick. He NEEDS to be drafted by a team with a starter in place looking to retire within 2...maybe 3 years.

 

[Bulldog]

LaVar Arrington: Haskins has the kind of physical upside at qb that the Redskins should go with Chase Young at #2. The other teams linked to Tua have nothing at the qb position and are more ready to take the risk on his availability due to injury history, etc.