Random Commanders Thoughts

[Om]

Actually, BB, some of us have held Robert accountable in this drama all along. Not as in "it's all his fault," as some seem to think that implies, but as in he played a major role in his own undoing. I remember raising the possibility that Gruden might have been speaking more to the rest of his locker room, and hopefully getting Robert's attention, when he "went off" on him publicly in the media after that one game. Yes, I was surprised by it then, and didn't necessarily think it was how I'd go about it, but it didn't shock and dismay me to the point it has some Skins fans.

I keep going back to what I consider the single most compelling thing we've seen and heard since Jay got here. With the exception of Robert, every indication we have ever gotten is that the players and coaches (not to mention the GM) like playing for and working with the guy. And given the turnaround from year one to year two, the current evidence is that the man is doing a good job and it's reasonable to expect that to continue.

Okay so that's two compelling things. But still.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Agreed. Not saying this observation was mine alone. Just adding some perspective in this most recent conversation.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I actually thing the conversation is somewhat relevant again because factors have changed. The conversation still has a lot of the same points, but some new things have been introduced into the debate about what went down. Griffins gone, Cousins looks to be the future, Gruden has a division title, all of these things were still question marks when this whole thing really caught fire, and all of which can be a part of the final judgement of said situation.

That being said I'm kind of glad the conversation has died down again haha, a hell of a hot button issue!

 

[Henry]

In my first post about this I said that Griffin is gone and now he's someone else's problem. I never entered this discussion to defend Griffin. There's no point. He's gone.

The only people I am concerned with now are the people still on this team, such as Gruden. And sorry, but the way he handled the situation is still relevant to this team.

Apparently my suggestion that Gruden was brought in here to develop Griffin struck a huge nerve. I didn't think it was that crazy a statement, but here we are. In any case, whatever failings Griffin may have had, and for all I know there may have been many, Gruden's part in the whole saga was very ugly. That I do still care about, and I won't apologize for continuing to discuss it when someone else brings the subject up.

But as I said in my first post about all of this, I wish sports writers and ex-coaches would get over this and stop talking about it. Then I will.

 

[Ax]

He goes behind the coach’s back early on and decides not to run a certain number of plays? What??? That puts him in “Big Baby” or “Diva” category for me.

With a new regime, he is still a diva. Guess who demands that the new coach make him a pocket passer? Well, it’s more than one request. Dear old dad is now involved. More drama. That show never ends well.

Not trying to keep you in this conversation BB, but this segment here illustrates what I see as a major fault with both Shamahan, and Gruden.

They both had the authority to crush this shit, or be fired and walk away rich, praised, and still in possession of their balls. That they in essence, curled up in a ball, shivering on the floor, to the whims of a "Big Baby Diva" and his Daddy, says more about them being the baby in the room, instead of the men in charge. They pissed their pants when the child said, "no", instead making him mind.

Griffin shares a large load of blame here. But the experienced adults in the room failed monumentally, IMO, to control a situation that they had complete control of. Shifts much more of the blame to them. At least to me.

 

[Primus Porcus]

In my first post about this I said that Griffin is gone and now he's someone else's problem. I never entered this discussion to defend Griffin. There's no point. He's gone.

The only people I am concerned with now are the people still on this team, such as Gruden. And sorry, but the way he handled the situation is still relevant to this team.

Apparently my suggestion that Gruden was brought in here to develop Griffin struck a huge nerve. I didn't think it was that crazy a statement, but here we are. In any case, whatever failings Griffin may have had, and for all I know there may have been many, Gruden's part in the whole saga was very ugly. That I do still care about, and I won't apologize for continuing to discuss it when someone else brings the subject up.

But as I said in my first post about all of this, I wish sports writers and ex-coaches would get over this and stop talking about it. Then I will.

I dont think I said it was a crazy statement, if I did I apologize, just more that I didn't agree with the finality (or at least how I interpreted it) of it. We've got 3 pages over the last 12 hours debating it, which I think was actually a pretty good conversation if you look at it for what it's worth. It went further then anticipated but that's what makes this environment fun right? Differing of opinions? I'm with you though... I don't want to be asked to apologize for talking about a subject that clearly has enough of interest to spark a conversation like that.

 

[Boone]

I said it yesterday morning "here we go again with this can of worms" knowing it would last all day. Its a good debate to kill time during the offseason but its really a head butting match to see who wins.

Boone hates RG3 and Moss. I think we can all at least agree to that.

That, and Sean Taylor was a thug.

 

[Boone]

In my first post about this I said that Griffin is gone and now he's someone else's problem. I never entered this discussion to defend Griffin. There's no point. He's gone.

The only people I am concerned with now are the people still on this team, such as Gruden. And sorry, but the way he handled the situation is still relevant to this team.

In what way? Relevant to whom? The players, I'm guessing, could care less. If they do care, it's had zero impact on on the field success.

Apparently my suggestion that Gruden was brought in here to develop Griffin struck a huge nerve. I didn't think it was that crazy a statement, but here we are. In any case, whatever failings Griffin may have had, and for all I know there may have been many, Gruden's part in the whole saga was very ugly. That I do still care about, and I won't apologize for continuing to discuss it when someone else brings the subject up.

I don't think it struck a nerve. I think it's an opinion that is oft-stated as a fact. Even in articles posted, it's just someone else's opinion. I have never heard a team official state that a major expectation for new head coach Gruden was to 'fix Griffin'. Now, it is common sense that any team/owner would ideally want a guy they paid a king's ransom to get to succeed, and that it's the head coaches job to try and contribute to that. That's not quite the same thing as characterizing 'fixing Griffin' as somehow Gruden's top priority. Unscrewing the franchise and producing wins - now I think most would agree that's a universal head coach imperative. I'm not defending Gruden's management style that first year. I didn't like it and said so at the time. But I do think he made a quick assessment that Griffin wasn't going to be the guy - perhaps ever - and made the decision to go another direction. So far, it's Gruden who looks like the genius, not fans second guessing him. Only other comment I have is that it seems to escape notice that for the 4 seasons Griffin was here, it was drama (be it good drama or bad) nearly all the time. That stopped the minute he was no longer relevant and in the driver's seat under center. I don't think that's a coincidence.

But as I said in my first post about all of this, I wish sports writers and ex-coaches would get over this and stop talking about it. Then I will.

I think this debate will go on forever. One of the reasons I'm glad Griffin is gone is that he was a divisive figure from the moment it became clear the Skins would draft him. I never liked that, whether it was Griffin's fault or not. I won't miss him, or that.

 

[Boone]

Not trying to keep you in this conversation BB, but this segment here illustrates what I see as a major fault with both Shamahan, and Gruden.

They both had the authority to crush this shit, or be fired and walk away rich, praised, and still in possession of their balls. That they in essence, curled up in a ball, shivering on the floor, to the whims of a "Big Baby Diva" and his Daddy, says more about them being the baby in the room, instead of the men in charge. They pissed their pants when the child said, "no", instead making him mind.

Griffin shares a large load of blame here. But the experienced adults in the room failed monumentally, IMO, to control a situation that they had complete control of. Shifts much more of the blame to them. At least to me.

I think that's a good and fair point Ax.

 

[Henry]

In what way? Relevant to whom? The players, I'm guessing, could care less. If they do care, it's had zero impact on on the field success.

It's relevant because Gruden is still the coach. He will have to deal with players he doesn't like or get along with or whatever some time again in the future I suspect. As I said earlier in this discussion, I hope he handles things better next time.

Fortunately, I think the arrival of McLovin has stabilized things and given the front office some additional sense of legitimacy when personnel decisions are made. I think that has helped minimize the drama this offseason.

I don't think it struck a nerve. I think it's an opinion that is oft-stated as a fact. Even in articles posted, it's just someone else's opinion. I have never heard a team official state that a major expectation for new head coach Gruden was to 'fix Griffin'. Now, it is common sense that any team/owner would ideally want a guy they paid a king's ransom to get to succeed, and that it's the head coaches job to try and contribute to that. That's not quite the same thing as characterizing 'fixing Griffin' as somehow Gruden's top priority. Unscrewing the franchise and producing wins - now I think most would agree that's a universal head coach imperative. I'm not defending Gruden's management style that first year. I didn't like it and said so at the time. But I do think he made a quick assessment that Griffin wasn't going to be the guy - perhaps ever - and made the decision to go another direction. So far, it's Gruden who looks like the genius, not fans second guessing him. Only other comment I have is that it seems to escape notice that for the 4 seasons Griffin was here, it was drama (be it good drama or bad) nearly all the time. That stopped the minute he was no longer relevant and in the driver's seat under center. I don't think that's a coincidence.

I said 'develop' and people keep saying 'fix'. I never said 'fix'.

Griffin was clearly not a finished product. We hired a coach who's known for developing a young QB into a legitimate Franchise QB. Again, I don't understand why it's so outrageous to suggest that that coach was going to be expected to develop OUR young QB into a legitimate Franchise QB as well. And if that was the case (and I promise I will never ever ever ASSUME it was again) then Gruden failed miserably. Maybe it was all Griffin's fault. Jason Reid seems to think so. But, again, I don't care about Griffin. He's not here. I care about the guy who is still here.

Of course, I followed all of this up with "Fortunately, Cousins doesn't suck, so the team isn't suffering for it. In the end, that's all that matters."

And that IS all that matters. But if some dope writer decides to dredge this up again, and we get to talking about it, and I decide to offer my opinion on all of this, I will say again that Gruden failed at developing Griffin. I don't care what Griffin was like. Gruden couldn't do it. I hope that's a one time thing for him.

I think this debate will go on forever. One of the reasons I'm glad Griffin is gone is that he was a divisive figure from the moment it became clear the Skins would draft him. I never liked that, whether it was Griffin's fault or not. I won't miss him, or that.

As far as I'm concerned there's no debate at all. He's not a Redskin. We're only talking about this because Jason Reid and Mike Shanahan won't shut up about it, which makes me suspect Shanahan is really the one with the issue.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I often wonder that if Cousins hadn't woken up the last half of the season if Gruden would even be here to discuss. I think with the way he handled Griffin, the pushing Morris to the back if we had a QB in Cousins who didn't perform he would be gone. But, winning does cure a lot I suppose.

Cant argue that. I'm not sure he would be here. His offense played a part in our success last year (presumably) and this year will give us a real idea of streaky QB play vs effective offense.

 

[McD5]

Runners take your marks.

Get Set!

Go!

 

[McD5]

Not trying to keep you in this conversation BB, but this segment here illustrates what I see as a major fault with both Shamahan, and Gruden.

They both had the authority to crush this shit, or be fired and walk away rich, praised, and still in possession of their balls. That they in essence, curled up in a ball, shivering on the floor, to the whims of a "Big Baby Diva" and his Daddy, says more about them being the baby in the room, instead of the men in charge. They pissed their pants when the child said, "no", instead making him mind.

Griffin shares a large load of blame here. But the experienced adults in the room failed monumentally, IMO, to control a situation that they had complete control of. Shifts much more of the blame to them. At least to me.

Both coaches saw the problem quickly, but handled it in different manners.

Shanny probably knew his age, and also enjoyed the rare opportunity to work with his son. He knew Griffin was going to take 4 or 5 years to develop, unlike a pocket passer like Winston who had studied it for much of his life.

He wanted to keep the door open for another team in the future, and for his potential HOF legacy. So he went Scorched Earth. He decided he wanted out, and it was best to be fired. He got his wish after year four.

Gruden came in and began to develop Griffin. Then he got injured in the first season, and Gruden was forced to get the others up to speed quickly.

When RG3 came back and still didn't look good, Gruden lit into him--and maybe Snyder too.

After training camp was over and it was clear that Griffin wasn't the answer, he put his future NFL HC career on the line, and pulled him before the season even began. He gambled by starting a QB that hadn't even taken preseason reps with the starters.

See: Huevos

Scot backed him, convinced Dan to get with the program, and the rest is history.

It's hard to be much faster than that.

 

[McD5]

Eh.....the running game is another story.

For starters, it sucks. But this is another myth that hopefully can be dispelled quickly.

Before the season even began, Scot drafted his future starter in the 3rd round.

Not Gruden, but Scot. After watching all of Alfred's previous tapes, Scot decided that Alfred might not be in his future plans.

It could have been scheme (most likely) or it could have been age and an upcoming contract negotiation. But Scot made the move before practices even began.

So....now the season starts, and you're Jay Gruden. What are you going to do with the new GM's 3rd round pick? Bench him? Lol. Of course not. You're going to play him a decent amount so the new GM knows what to do with Alfred at the end of the season.

Conspiracy? No. "Gruden hates Alfred!" No.

Just common sense.

Both RBs looked great in the first game, and then everything turned to crap. That could be because Gruden sucks. Injuries to the O-line. Alf isn't a downhill runner/wrong scheme. Or even Callahan.

Hopefully we can fix that this season. But it's not because the HC hated Alfred.

Scot is the one that put that ball into motion.

 

[McD5]

OK, so now its Scot's fault

1 - Callahan is in charge of all things running
2 - Scot is now responsible

Sorry, man. Just trying to keep up with each of your shifting of blame around the same person instead of blaming that person.

No. It could be a combination of many things. But "Gruden hates Alfred" isn't one of those things.

Scot drafted his starter before the season began.

 

[Shi no Tenshi]

I will definitely agree, that Scot drafted somebody who he thought would be a future starter. I wouldn't go so far as to say that was because he thought the player already here was bad, just that he saw a future starter on his board that was available. As noted with many of his drafts, and us drafting a player like Doctson. Or Kouandjio.

What we have been told before, by their press meetings, is that Gruden decides who plays, and that McCloughan gives him the best players he can. That's how I try to view all things related to our teams management. Who knows personal feelings, but I'm not going to say Scot is specifically drafting replacements, unless that guy is cut like Culliver was.

 

[McD5]

It's like a catharsis today. So here are a few other conspiracies that we can forever (hopefully) remove from this great site:

1. "Why aren't they calling plays for RG3's strengths? Why won't they let him run? Why make him into a pocket passer?

Because RG3 and his dad refused to run the plays. That then became a very sticky political situation between the HC, the Griffins, and Dan.

2. "The HC tried to get him killed. Why didn't he pull him?"

This was one of the craziest. No HC in the history of the NFL would purposely try to get his own QB killed. Especially when said QB is the owner's favorite player. That would be career suicide.

It was later reported that Trent Williams came out and said that RG3 had called the wrong offensive protections in that game. He not only put himself at risk, but possibly others too. Like a RB that had no idea where the rush was coming from.

3. "Gruden really screwed up with RG3"

Maybe. Or maybe by benching him he just guaranteed that Griffin would be able to walk normally at the age of 40. Maybe he just kept Griffin from getting CTE, or from having migraines the rest of his life.

Griffin had no idea what he was doing out there. He was calling the wrong protections, and could have gotten himself seriously injured again if allowed to play. And that's more important that football.

How great would it have been if Shanahan had done the same years earlier against Seattle?

And then the rest of the season he continued to work with RG3 and trained him. And if RG3 picked it up as well as McCoy or Cousins, he may actually have a chance in Cleveland next season.

Ahhh......like a fresh shower. We are now clean.

 

[Ax]

After training camp was over and it was clear that Griffin wasn't the answer, he put his future NFL HC career on the line, and pulled him before the season even began. He gambled by starting a QB that hadn't even taken preseason reps with the starters.

See: Huevos

I know you think the guy walks on water, after turning it into wine, but please, give me a friggin break.

He may have put his Redskins HC career on the line, but his NFL HC career?

That's some deep bullshit their homey. If he'd have done it his first year, like he really wanted to, but was too chicken-shit to do it, you might have me. Waiting for his bodyguard (McGloo) to help him make the move seems to back my suspicion that he's not an alpha.

You try too hard to make him something he isn't. He'll be fine as a mere mortal. You trying to tattoo an S on his chest every other second only makes you look desperate.

But, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Henry]

Has anyone posted this article yet? I didn't see it.

Anyway, didn't expect to see this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...p_local-news_o-mccartney-815am:homepage/story

 

[Henry]

Heres the thing with the name:

this isn't going to change anything. the people with the agenda will have the same agenda, and those arguing its not racist will continue to argue it. this is as old as I can remember as a kid and there is nothing that will change it. I just hope the trademark changes so we can stop with penalizing people for an opinion of something they don't have the right to force as fact on anyone else.

Generally I agree with you, which is why I was so shocked to see someone say "I was wrong. I guess the name is ok."

When does that ever happen?