Random Commanders Thoughts

[MikeSr619]

Started every game..been a while since we had that kind of reliability.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Willy? Little Willy?

 

[Miles Monroe]

The team is now an attractive destination. I keep waiting for Rod Sterling to show his face.

 

[Dead Money]

The team is now an attractive destination.

No, not yet. Ok well maybe as far as coaches and staff goes it a lot less UNATTRACTIVE.... They still have to win some games before it actually become a place people will come to except for that paycheck. Still a really long way to go with plenty of peaks and valleys I'm pretty sure. Progress is great though, we have some hope again, Dan Snyder is kinda the Hope Whisperer isn't he?

 

[DieselPwr44]

Random Thought...

Something that has been on my mind lately, that's been bugging me.

All the playoff action going on and the sports talk radio shows get around to talking about the records of the coaches and who's currently the best, which devolves into the greatest coaches of all time......and Joe Gibbs never...I mean NEVER, gets mentioned in the conversation.

Why is that? I listen to a little bit of everybody on Sat. radio...ESPN,NFL, Mad Dog, etc. They'll talk about Belichick,Noll, Walsh, Landry, Parcells....No Gibbs.

Yesterday, on Schien on Sports, he was talking about Belichick and about how he turned the roster over and sustained success and that no other coach has been able to do that.

I about run off the road! Especially when callers we're agreeing with him!

I'm talking to the radio in the truck: "Three SB wins with three different QBs and RBs! Our defensive personnel turned over between 82 and 91! You people are idiots!!!"

Sooooo, in your opinion, why is it that Joe never gets a mention when the subject of great coaches comes up?

I need a drink. Bloody Mary's anyone?

 

[Elephant]

DP, I will throw in the job he did with the scrubs he had during the strike season...and the lack of talent in his second stint, but still made the playoffs twice with a playoff win and respectable showings with Mark Brunnell and Todd "Friggin" Collins at QB.

 

[Primus Porcus]

I don't get it either DP.. I will say that Sean Salisbury was on Chad Dukes show yesterday and he made an interesting statement. When asked about the recent front office moves he said that it's a good thing, and that when the Redskins are good, the NFL is better because of it. When the Redskins play meaningful games in December it bodes well for the NFL, the tv networks, and for sports analysts. I thought it was interesting, and I know it's off topic, but when you mentioned us being slighted by Media it brought this to mind.

Joe absolutely deserves to be talked about as a great.. it's just not fair. He built those teams, he sustained success with multiple QBs, and he developed a unit that literally changed the game of football... THE HOGS.

 

[MikeSr619]

He's not in the spotlight..He's very humble..and he's pretty much non existent on purpose, I think.

He's the greatest head coach and a hell of a man in my book.

 

[Goaldeje]

Belichick has Spygate hanging over his legacy, no matter what happens. In my mind, he is automatically lowered to the next tier because of it.

I know I'm slightly biased (just a touch), but I think Gibbs beats out the rest because he never had a prototypical franchise QB, or anything approaching that level of QB play. What he got out of what he had to work with was truly remarkable. Imagine if he'd had Montana to work with? Sheesh.

And as an aside, DP, I feel my blood pressure rise when national media types talk about this and the greatest teams ever and fail to mention the 91 Skins. Here's the quick blurb on Wiki:

The 1991 season started with a franchise-record 11 straight victories.[39] Also during the season, "The Hogs",[39] under the coaching of Redskins offensive line coach Joe Bugel, allowed a league low and franchise record nine sacks – the third lowest total in NFL history. The 1991 Redskins offense also dominated under the brilliant coaching of offensive minded head football coach Joe Gibbs scoring 485 points which was the most by any team in the 1991 NFL season. The 1991 Redskins defense was also dominant under the coaching of defensive coordinator and guru Richie Petitbon, giving up only 224 total points which was second best of any team in the NFL in 1991, while also not allowing a single point to opponents in 3 of the 16 games played that season. After posting a 14–2 record, the Redskins made and dominated the playoffs, beating the Falcons and Lions by a combined score of 64–17.[15] On January 26, 1992, the Redskins won Super Bowl XXVI by defeating the Buffalo Bills 37–24[15] with Mark Rypien winning the games Super Bowl MVP award. After the Super Bowl, the Redskins set another franchise record by sending eight players to the Pro Bowl.[39] The 1991 Washington Redskins are widely considered one of the best teams in NFL history.

I'm sorry, but the '85 Bears and the '00 Ratbirds don't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as that team. And yet they are. It's enough to make me start drinking. More, I mean.

 

[Boone]

Gibbs should always be in the conversation of greats. But greatest? No. Just to throw out one name, Chuck Noll won 4 Superbowls and lead his teams to 9 division crowns. His Steelers were the most dominant team of the modern era.

And if folks want to hate on Belichick, that's fine. But he is going to go down as the greatest coach ever and deservedly so. Yeah...Spygate blah blah blah, nothing without Tom Brady blah blah blah....that's all just noise (and probably more than a little jealousy). People always hate the most successful people, and the fact that he doesn't feel the need to play the game and kiss the media's ass has no bearing on it.

I actually think winning the strike season hurts Gibbs argument as some folks put an asterisk next to that Super Bowl. If Gibbs had come back in Gibbs II and got us another Lombardi, I think he'd be in the discussion for greatest ever. As to DP's original point, I think that Gibbs being a quiet Christian guy who does almost no self-promotion, doesn't seek the limelight, that is the main reason he doesn't get mentioned as often as he should. I also think because of his demeanor, folks have always underestimated just how smart and capable this guy is.

 

[Goaldeje]

If you weren't a mod, I'd request a banning.

If you cheat, you can't compete. You can put an asterisk by Gibbs if you want for the strike season, but a MUCH bigger asterisk has to go beside Belichick, who hasn't won a SB since his cheating was unveiled. Sorry John, I vehemently disagree with you on this one. If Belichick was caught stealing opposing signals from the sidelines, well, that is part of the game. But he was videotaping walk throughs and had prior knowledge of plays run, signals, calls, etc. That's a ridiculous advantage. I am willing to concede he helped make Brady and vice-versa, but the cheating thing cannot be overlooked.

Gibbs is a legend. I'll give you Knoll. I agree with that, he always slips my mind, but his record is unreal. 3 QBs in 3 Super Bowl wins is damn impressive though. That should be enough to catapult Gibbs over just about everyone. And certainly over a cheater.

 

[Cycleans]

Gibbs is up there amongst the best but I think Belichick is a notch higher. The cheating scandal was blown out of proportion. He does more with less than anyone year after year.

 

[DieselPwr44]

On the Belichick cheating deal....

George Allen did the same thing, except without video tape.

He had spies going to practices of the opposition.

Does that make him worse?

 

[Goaldeje]

On the Belichick cheating deal....

George Allen did the same thing, except without video tape.

He had spies going to practices of the opposition.

Does that make him worse?

Perhaps. I doubt it will be discussed much because no one is putting good ole George up there in the discussion of GOAT.

 

[Goaldeje]

Gibbs is up there amongst the best but I think Belichick is a notch higher. The cheating scandal was blown out of proportion. He does more with less than anyone year after year.

Couldn't disagree more. When you have an advantage not able to be had by anyone else you're playing against, that has to count against you, especially since he did so outside of the rules. We crucify Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire, etc for cheating with steroids; how is this any different? He gained an unfair competitive advantage. My wife was a life-long Pats fan, who I was slowly pulling to the Redskins side (she grow up in MA, don't hold it against her), and when that story broke, it became a hell of a lot easier to bring over to our side. Put yourself in the Pats' fans shoes: wouldn't it bother you just a teeny bit, just in the back of your mind a little, enough to make you wonder about those three Super Bowls? Thing is, he is an amazing coach, and more than likely would have won without that stupidity. He is absolutely amazing at taking away your strength, quite possibly the best I've ever seen.

And it may not be fair, but the fact that he hasn't won a Super Bowl since then is telling.

And as a Redskins fan, I find it absolutely WONDERFUL that I have NO doubts, whatsoever, NONE, that Joe Gibbs won those Super Bowls without any undue assistance or cheating or whatever.

Sorry, but to me it's an enormous difference.

 

[Boone]

Goal - I love ya man, but you can take away everything associated with Spygate and Belichick is still dominant. It's not 'telling'. It's hard to win the Super Bowl. But look how many times they've won their division and been a SB contender since then.

Sorry, but your hate of the guy is blinding you on this one, and I think you'd admit that.

 

[Boone]

Perhaps. I doubt it will be discussed much because no one is putting good ole George up there in the discussion of GOAT.

It ain't perhaps. Allen did whatever it took to try and win.

 

[Goaldeje]

It ain't perhaps. Allen did whatever it took to try and win.

OK. I'm not sure what you're getting at here? If you're asking do I think less of him because of it, the answer is that, yeah, I probably do.

 

[Boone]

If you weren't a mod, I'd request a banning.

If you cheat, you can't compete. You can put an asterisk by Gibbs if you want for the strike season, but a MUCH bigger asterisk has to go beside Belichick, who hasn't won a SB since his cheating was unveiled. Sorry John, I vehemently disagree with you on this one. If Belichick was caught stealing opposing signals from the sidelines, well, that is part of the game. But he was videotaping walk throughs and had prior knowledge of plays run, signals, calls, etc. That's a ridiculous advantage. I am willing to concede he helped make Brady and vice-versa, but the cheating thing cannot be overlooked.

Gibbs is a legend. I'll give you Knoll. I agree with that, he always slips my mind, but his record is unreal. 3 QBs in 3 Super Bowl wins is damn impressive though. That should be enough to catapult Gibbs over just about everyone. And certainly over a cheater.

I didn't say anything about overlooking it. But discounting a GREAT coach's achievements because he's a 'cheater' is ridiculous. You hate him - and it's coloring your assessment. I'm not taking anything away from the legendary Joe Gibbs, but the '3 QBs in 3 Super Bowls' argument is overblown imho. We could also look at 'who were the strong teams' and lots of other factors (including a strike-shortened season, key injuries to other teams stars, etc...) which may have made it easier for us to win some of those games. Again, I'm a huge Gibbs fan, but he's not in the top 3 greatest coaches of all time. He's just not.

I would be humming a different tune if he'd taken us to the Promised Land in Gibbs II. But I think he knew he couldn't do it and that had as much to do with him retiring again as any of the other reasons we cite (ST's death, his grandson's health, etc...).

 

[Boone]

OK. I'm not sure what you're getting at here? If you're asking do I think less of him because of it, the answer is that, yeah, I probably do.

You posited Allen's 'cheating' as 'perhaps'. I was just saying it's not a 'perhaps', he definitely engaged in activities that we'd define as 'cheating' now. That's all I meant - it's not a 'maybe'.