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question for the history buffs and stats nerds

QB Theory 101, Chapter I, Section II(a).

Without a legitimate NFL-caliber QB operating the offense, one cannot make accurate and informed talent assessments of the surrounding offensive components.
 
Om said:
QB Theory 101, Chapter I, Section II(a).

Without a legitimate NFL-caliber QB operating the offense, one cannot make accurate and informed talent assessments of the surrounding offensive components.
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Don't forget Chapter 2.

Nor can assessments be made about the team's defense.

We ranked near the bottom of the league last year in points allowed. 26th I believe.

Now, our defense certainly isn't great, but it's not 26th either.

Much of that is because our offense couldn't do anything.
 
Not only "couldn't do anything", but consistently turned the ball over, giving the opposition the ball in our territory.

Thank God we re-signed Rex.
 
Right now, I look at this QB mess:

SF(may lose Smith after being spurned by Peyton)

Mia(has to settle for Smith or Moore after being spurned by Peyton AND Flynn)

Cleveland(missed out on RG3 and Flynn and are stuck with Danny Wuerffuel...I mean Colt McCoy)

Frankly, I am thankful we paid to get the #2 seat at the draft table. :)
 
And Ryan Tannehill is praying each night...

Now I lay me down to sleep,
I pray the Lord, my soul to keep.

If I'm drafted in any given round,
Let it not be, Cleveland and the dog pound.
 
The way things are going Tannehill is going to go from being a second round draft choice several weeks ago to being the #4 or #8 pick in the first round to Cleveland or Miami.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
The way things are going Tannehill is going to go from being a second round draft choice several weeks ago to being the #4 or #8 pick in the first round to Cleveland or Miami.
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Rymanofthenorth said:
but thats ok BT, its the MARKET cost lmao
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But it is...just like Locker, Gabbert & Ponder were all reached on last year - it happens every year. Someone will reach on a QB too early. You're trying to take a shot at our FO but failing miserably, Ry. Just give it up - you've got no allies in this one. :)
 
Henry said:
The Giants were 4-12 the year before they drafted Manning.

The Falcons were 4-12 the year before they drafted Vick.
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The Gnats had also gone through a year filled with injuries and bad decisions, however the talent base was already there. Don't forget, the Giants most likely could have won with Rivers as well its not like the clear winner in that trade was the giants.

Vick is a terrible argument, he was a journeyman who required the entire offence catered around his skillset.
 
there are reaches Lanky and there are REACHES lol.

Om, Rex was a lower end NFL calibre QB, with a better line he would be more productive. it works both ways a great qb behind a bad line wll be good, a great line will make a mediocre qb look good (dilfer).

the argument about how it affects a defence has already been made our problems on defence are more about personelle and scheme than how our lacklustre offence affects them.
 
Ryman,

Since we can't ever quite seem to meet minds, lemme try it another way on this specific point:

Great QB > Great OL.

It's not even close.
 
I wont disgree, but now let me ask you, what is easier to find and get? I would argue that in the past 10 years there have been perhaps 3 qbs I would call great QB's. Manning, Brady and Warner and warner was really only great when he was protected, you could argue that Manning and brady made their lines look good, I would have a tough time refuting that.
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
The Gnats had also gone through a year filled with injuries and bad decisions, however the talent base was already there. Don't forget, the Giants most likely could have won with Rivers as well its not like the clear winner in that trade was the giants.

Vick is a terrible argument, he was a journeyman who required the entire offence catered around his skillset.
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The point was the team that did the moving up in these trades was one-player away. Nobody in their right mind can argue a 4-12 team, under ANY scenario, is only one player away. Call me crazy, but that's how I see it.

Rymanofthenorth said:
there are reaches Lanky and there are REACHES lol.
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Ponder was a REACH. Gabbert was a REACH.
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
I wont disgree, but now let me ask you, what is easier to find and get? I would argue that in the past 10 years there have been perhaps 3 qbs I would call great QB's. Manning, Brady and Warner and warner was really only great when he was protected, you could argue that Manning and brady made their lines look good, I would have a tough time refuting that.
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So Brees, Rogers and Favre aren't on the "great" list?
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
I wont disgree, but now let me ask you, what is easier to find and get? I would argue that in the past 10 years there have been perhaps 3 qbs I would call great QB's. Manning, Brady and Warner and warner was really only great when he was protected, you could argue that Manning and brady made their lines look good, I would have a tough time refuting that.
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An OL is not just one guy---you have to field a UNIT that can be cohesive and is built to suit the style of play you want your reallyimportant position player to run. :)

Great QB's lift an entire team...starting with the OL...and throughout the entire organization. We see it time and time again. You named thee obvious ones....add to that Brees...add to that what Vick did in Atlanta...add to that what McNabb did for Philly...add to that Roethliberger...add to that Matt Ryan AFTER Atlanta imploded when Vick left...add to that Rivers. Add to that Eli.

There are probably more examples, but I hope the drift is evident?

Great OL's w/out a legit QB make it possible to be a playoff contender in any given year IF there's also a solid stable of backs...and a damn good D...and damn good coaching...and damn good fortune.

A Great QB can be the difference between 2-14 and 10-6.

Indy's OL went from 10-6 good to 2-14 ridiculous for one reason--they lost their legit NFL QB.

No OL that's ever been fielded can do that.
 
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Rymanofthenorth said:
The Gnats had also gone through a year filled with injuries and bad decisions, however the talent base was already there. Don't forget, the Giants most likely could have won with Rivers as well its not like the clear winner in that trade was the giants.

Vick is a terrible argument, he was a journeyman who required the entire offence catered around his skillset.
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Neither one of those teams was looking for the "final piece of the puzzle" when they traded up to get their QBs. Your words, not mine.

Both of those teams has losing records the year they drafted their QB.

Both of those teams had winning records the year after that.

Whether New York would have won with Rivers is beside the point. The point is they were able to sacrifice multiple high picks for Manning and still put a winning team together around him.

And say what you want about Vick, but the Falcons had a losing record 7 of the 9 seasons prior to trading up to draft him. In the five years Vick was the starter for the Falcons, he had one losing season, and the Falcons went 38-28-1 with him under center. If he's just a journeyman QB and a terrible example of a QB turning a lousy program around, we should be in pretty awesome shape with Griffin. :)
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
I wont disgree, but now let me ask you, what is easier to find and get? I would argue that in the past 10 years there have been perhaps 3 qbs I would call great QB's. Manning, Brady and Warner and warner was really only great when he was protected, you could argue that Manning and brady made their lines look good, I would have a tough time refuting that.
Click to expand...

I think right now Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the league. He has a terrible line and the Packers are contenders every year.

In fact, if I were a Packer fan, I'd be pretty pissed at how Green Bay has allowed Rodgers to get banged around like a pinball every year. Problem is, he's so good they can afford to let it happen.
 
Favre, I would agree was a great QB, but in the past few years wasnt nearly as effective brees I forgot about lol, Rodgers has been great for 2 years, I have no doubt he will be the elite qb of the league the next few seasons, if they start protecting him better.

henry when the Giants pulled the trigger on Manning, they were in a far better spot than we are depth and talent wise.
 
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