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Play Calling?

I did not say run on all 3 downs, maybe on 3rd depending on what you got on 2nd. There is absolutely no excuse for throwing that ball on 2nd down with 5 minutes left in the game and a 5 point lead. I mean, you saw the result! It was 2 fold: you didn't take time off the clock by running and you risked a stupid turnover when you have a 5 point lead giving the opponent the turnover opportunity, which they took advantage of.


Regardless of our deficiencies, all season long Kyle or Pops has been calling late game pass plays and most of the time it results in an incompletion with no time taken off the clock giving the opponent more of a chance to score against us.

2-12-WAS 11 (2:12) 5-D.McNabb pass short left to 47-C.Cooley to WAS 25 for 14 yards (26-T.Jennings).
 
2-12-WAS 11 (2:12) 5-D.McNabb pass short left to 47-C.Cooley to WAS 25 for 14 yards (26-T.Jennings).

Rather vague. Care to expound? I believe it is a situation from earlier in the season where the play call in this situation may have worked for Kyle? Not sure. I will look into the whole thing when I get home tonight and you give me a little less vague reference.
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I’ll save you the trouble.

It was the Bears game with 2:12 left on 2nd and 12 on our own 11 yard line. The first down that generated, essentially allowed us to run out the clock (although Torain did rip off a nice 27 yard run after it when the Bears were trying to tackle the ball.)

But I don’t recall you complaining about that particular play-call. If you did, please point it out.

It’s easy to complain about play calling when it doesn’t work and then remain silent when it does.

But the fact remains, with a full complement of timeouts and the 2 minute warning, with 5 minutes remaining, the Lions could have easily put together 2 drives and beat us with two field goals. In order to salt away the game, we needed an extended drive. That means first downs and we hadn’t been getting those via the running game all day. Also note that in our previous drive, McNabb had hit Armstrong deep for 35 yards. So it was reasonable from a play calling prospective, that the Lion’s needed to respect Armstrong deep and you would therefore expect him to be open short. But since, McNabb threw into triple coverage, perhaps it was a case of him misreading the coverage (or the Lion’s disguising it very well.) Sometimes, it is merely the fact that the other team made a play and you didn’t.

If we had been running successfully on them all day, maybe you could make a case for a Riggo drill with 5 minutes left and a 5 point lead. But I think that’s a stretch with what we saw yesterday.
 
I’ll save you the trouble.

It was the Bears game with 2:12 left on 2nd and 12 on our own 11 yard line. The first down that generated, essentially allowed us to run out the clock (although Torain did rip off a nice 27 yard run after it when the Bears were trying to tackle the ball.)


But I don’t recall you complaining about that particular play-call. If you did, please point it out.

It’s easy to complain about play calling when it doesn’t work and then remain silent when it does.

But the fact remains, with a full complement of timeouts and the 2 minute warning, with 5 minutes remaining, the Lions could have easily put together 2 drives and beat us with two field goals. In order to salt away the game, we needed an extended drive. That means first downs and we hadn’t been getting those via the running game all day. Also note that in our previous drive, McNabb had hit Armstrong deep for 35 yards. So it was reasonable from a play calling prospective, that the Lion’s needed to respect Armstrong deep and you would therefore expect him to be open short. But since, McNabb threw into triple coverage, perhaps it was a case of him misreading the coverage (or the Lion’s disguising it very well.) Sometimes, it is merely the fact that the other team made a play and you didn’t.

If we had been running successfully on them all day, maybe you could make a case for a Riggo drill with 5 minutes left and a 5 point lead. But I think that’s a stretch with what we saw yesterday.


Actually, I was complaining about it, just not here. So don't play that card on me! I have been critical of this team when they win and praise some parts of the losses we have had!

While in chat on another site during the Bears game I mentioned it as soon as I saw McNabb dropping back. During the Texans game I mentioned it. It even went on during the Cowgirls game. The only problem during the early part of the year was that it didn't look like a pattern. That's the problem with it. Any good defensive coordinator who watches game tape now sees a pattern.

Do you realize that McNabb has a passer rating of 38 , 3 int's, a completion percentage of 48% and 1 TD in 20 drives in the 4th qurter of games this year? And you trust him to get it done instead of running at least some time off the clock and leaving Detroit a longer field and lacking a huge swing in momentum from a turnover?

You said first downs are the priority, I agree. But, how was our line holding up against there defensive front yesterday in the pass? Wasn't any better than the run game. We couldn't throw it either!

I say burning off the clock is more important! It is always easier for a Defense to handle a long drive with little time on the clock and the opposing offense needing a TD to win, rather than a momentum swinging interception leaving them a short field with plenty of time!!!

Run the ball! Run the clock down! If they were throwing it on 3rd down, I would have less trouble with it, but for goodness sake make sure you run some time off the clock!!!
 
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So we agree to disagree.

I think 5 minutes left is too soon to go into run out the clock mode with a 5 point lead and the opposition having all of their timeouts. In that scenario, I think you are better off putting together a normal drive, mixing up your plays. Ideally you get into field goal range, where you can then slow down the game, forcing the other team to burn their timeouts. Then you end up with an 8 point lead and little left on the clock. Even if you don’t put points on the board, a couple of first downs will change the field position which is big when a couple field goals win it.

As far as passing on third down verses second, I’d much rather pass on second down when the defense still has to respect the run than to get into third and long when they can pin their ears back and go after McNabb, especially Sunday. Third and long takes away play action because the run is no longer a threat.
 
El, I agree with you, i thought play calling was a real weakness this afternoon. Something they need to get straightened out quickly, the Lions were 27th against the run, and Torain had 10 carries in the first half before he got injured. That is not going to cut it. I know our line is no where near as good as the halcyon days, but I wish our coaches had The fortitude to at least try to establish the rush.

I know this has been noted elsewhere but not sure why we didn't try McNabb in the bootleg, or something to get him out of the pocket. The plays he made with his legs were great, and showed the Lions aren't great against the run, so why not run it more?

And yes, the two point conversion call was horrendous.
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what to do? the coaching staff knew the o-line was getting PHYSICALLY WHIPPED. vis bootlegs and recognizing the scrambles.....isn't McNabb still nursing some injury?
 
what to do? the coaching staff knew the o-line was getting PHYSICALLY WHIPPED. vis bootlegs and recognizing the scrambles.....isn't McNabb still nursing some injury?

Supposedly he is.

Thing is with game on the line who would you rather be behind center running the offense, McNabb or Grossman?
 

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