Peyton Manning is a Bronco

It's Tebowmania Om, plain and simple. They don't have that to deal with and I'd bet a LOt of dough he's not going anywhere.

I think the kid should do his best to get to Philly. That system would be perfect to learn in and he'd be pretty likely to get decent playtime with how much Vick tends to miss. reid also is a master of developing QB's especially mobile ones. If he's got the goods, REALLY has em, then Reid would be a great tutor. Plus as entrenched as Vick as their starter the Tebowmania wouldn't get a chance to take root the way it has in Florida and Denver.
 
Om said:
What I don't undertand is the apparent need to say he's EITHER a starter right now OR he's a bust. Which is why I think the Broncos are screwing this up. They have the perfect formula to let him learn behind an all time great for 2-3 years. No pressure. Find out if the kid can grow into a starter.

It's why I thought they were so serious about PM...that he was part of the master plan. As it's looking, he IS the plan. If that had happened here, and we let a guy with the promise Tebow's shown go and ONLY hired Peyton, I'd be going nuts.
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There's no such thing as patience in letter players develop anymore in today's NFL. Nobody gets a chance to sit and learn behind somebody else. Coaches need to "win now" and can't afford the luxury of having someone sit. And once a player has been a starter, as Tebow has, rarely are they willing to take a step back to the bench (although Tebow might be one of the few players in today's NFL that is humble enough to do it).

I agree with you though, many players can benefit from sitting and learning for a couple of years. How many players don't do well with their initial team only to breakout when they go somewhere else? Sometimes it just takes time for a player to develop. It used to be that you'd automatically sit a QB for the first year (or more) before even thinking of starting them. WRs used to typically take 3 years to develop into a quality starter. Nowadays if they're not starting in their rookie season they're a "bust."
 
No problem with that, CT. Not from Tebow's side. It's the Broncos' approach I'm having a hard time writing off. The same Tebowmania will apply anywhere, including Phillly. Since when did a legit NFL franchise give a **** what a fringe part of their fanbase picketed for?
 
Rogers develped behind Favre, China...Locker is developing behind Hasselbeck...

Beck is developing behind Grossman.

Kidding. :paranoid:

I think there's room to let this unique kid develop. NO ONE with a brain is going to call for him to start over Peyton Manning. I stand by my initial reaction---I think the Broncos are messing up.
 
Om said:
What I don't undertand is the apparent need to say he's EITHER a starter right now OR he's a bust. Which is why I think the Broncos are screwing this up. They have the perfect formula to let him learn behind an all time great for 2-3 years. No pressure. Find out if the kid can grow into a starter.
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Because Tebow is bigger than the team. Just look at how strongly his supporters lobbied to have him start. Look at how vociferously they rally around him any time anyone says boo about him. He's an interesting cat and it's fun watching Fox squeeze blood out the offensive stone in Denver, but Tebow has become more than your average every day second year prospect. There will never be 'no pressure' around Tim Tebow. He's got a cult of personality behind him, and for a small market team it would be VERY difficult to cut a guy like that loose if you would like your offense to go in a different direction. Hell, you'd practically need to sign one of the Greatest QBs to Ever Play The Game in order to get away with it. :)

It's why I thought they were so serious about PM...that he was part of the master plan. As it's looking, he IS the plan. If that had happened here, and we let a guy with the promise Tebow's shown go and ONLY hired Peyton, I'd be going nuts.
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Again, if Tebow really is that full of promise, I expect someone will give up a 2nd or 3rd for him. Some time today. There are some mighty desperate teams out there at the moment.
 
Henry said:
Lanky, if the Broncos won 9 straight, they wouldn't have finished the season 8-8. :)
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9 games, 7 games, whatever. Jesus didn't really walk on water or turn water into wine either. :D
 
Henry, you really think the Broncos are worried about what a small group of zealots might say/do about Tebow getting playing time behind Peyton Manning?
 
Om said:
Rogers develped behind Favre, China...Locker is developing behind Hasselbeck...

Beck is developing behind Grossman.

Kidding. :paranoid:

I think there's room to let this unique kid develop. NO ONE with a brain is going to call for him to start over Peyton Manning. I stand by my initial reaction---I think the Broncos are messing up.
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I never disagreed that the Broncos are messing up.

I was just musing on the ways of today's NFL. And Rogers and Locker are exceptions, not the rule. If Rogers had gone to another team without someone the likes of Favre, Mannning, Brady already in place (i.e., a team in need of a QB) he'd have started sooner. It's a luxury most teams don't have. And one you correctly are noticing that the Broncos seem to be throwing away.
 
You're absolutely right, China. The development thing stopped a long time ago...hell, I'm old enough to remember when the prevailing wisdom was an NFL QB wasn't ready to play for 5 years. Today, most rookies are lucky to get 5 games.

Still...the occasional Rogers serves as a reminder that maybe not all old saws are easily dimissed. To me, Tebow's created enough interest to maybe justify being another exception.

Stupid Broncos. :)
 
Om said:
Henry, you really think the Broncos are worried about what a small group of zealots might say/do about Tebow getting playing time behind Peyton Manning?
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I think if they were happy with Tebow they wouldn't have gotten Manning in the first place. I think now that they have Manning they see a chance to extricate themselves from Tebow and his disproportionate level of popularity whilst suffering a minimal amount of PR hassle.

Why do you think they are jettisoning Tebow? Just cuz they're crazy folk? :)
 
I think that Tim Tebow, considering the skill-set he brings to the game, has the NFL career expectancy closer to a running back than a quarterback. I don't think that he actually has that much time to sit and be groomed.

Take away his non-throwing attributes and he wouldn't be in the league at all. He probably has as much a chance of becoming an average NFL passer as Shaq did becoming an average NBA free-throw shooter.

Somewhere between none and none.
 
Henry said:
I think if they were happy with Tebow they wouldn't have gotten Manning in the first place. I think now that they have Manning they see a chance to extricate themselves from Tebow and his disproportionate level of popularity whilst suffering a minimal amount of PR hassle.

Why do you think they are jettisoning Tebow? Just cuz they're crazy folk? :)
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Not being happy with Tebow as their starter NOW is precisely why I think, now that they lucked INTO Peyton Manning, could have been such a boon to them. They had no assurance they'd get Peyton...but they, along with a host of others, went after him because he's, well, Peyton. And now that they HAVE him they have a chance to put Tebow on the bench with a chance to learn. Best of both worlds.

Ah hell...who cares? It's the Broncos. I've said my piece--I'm sure they're duly impressed. :)
 
Henry said:
I think if they were happy with Tebow they wouldn't have gotten Manning in the first place. I think now that they have Manning they see a chance to extricate themselves from Tebow and his disproportionate level of popularity whilst suffering a minimal amount of PR hassle.

Why do you think they are jettisoning Tebow? Just cuz they're crazy folk? :)
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You wonder a little bit. What does a franchise want out of it's QBs? Sell jerseys? Check. Fill the stands? Check. Win games? Check. Get to the playoffs and win? Check. Win a Superbowl? TBD.

So what it comes down to is he had everything except in their judgement they didn't think he'd develop enough to get them over the hump to the Superbowl. But they never really gave him a serious chance to learn and develop, did they? If they'd stashed him back on the bench he'd have had a chance to learn from one of the best. Now they'll never know for sure what he could've become.
 
I don't know if I agree with this or not but it has been suggested that to keep Tebow as Manning's backup, Denver would have had to keep two different playbooks because Tebow is so incapable of running a full blown NFL offense right now.
 
Merril Hoge sure thinks so...

“The more I studied him in an NFL setting, the more disturbed I was that he has no clue what he’s looking at,” Hoge said of Tebow. “His IQ as a football player is not very good. That is why they have to come down and make it some of a college-form system that he’s comfortable with in Florida. He can’t execute, from a cerebral aspect, a pro-style system.”
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Henry said:
I don't think the Broncos want anything but wins. I think that's all they care about. And I don't think they think Tebow can win long term, not based on the ups and downs of last season. Otherwise they would keep him around. And while I realize some of you may disagree with the Broncos on this, I do happen to agree with them.

It's the same reason the 49ers were after Manning even though Smith led them to 13 wins. And I understood the thinking of the 49ers too.
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^^This. The only way Tebow can be effective is in something similar to the gimmicky option offense Denver ran last season. There are two big problems with that. First, it forces you to structure your entire team around one guy, and oh, BTW, he's the only QB like that in the league.

The bigger problem though, is that even in the run heavy system in which he fares best, the margin of error is too small for him to have much success. So if Denver's defense doesn't play almost a perfect game every week they don't have a chance to win. If they play a team with a really potent offense likely to score over 24 points or so, they don't have a chance to win. If they play a tough run defense that shuts down their running game, they only have a slight chance of winning.

I get Om's point about stashing him and hoping he matures into something special. However that means a lost roster spot because you can't rely on him to be your backup QB. Sorry, he just sucks.
 
I agree that Tebow will never be able to fully grasp some systems - he was/is a certain kind of QB from childhood to the present. Give him something with which he is familiar, then all is well. Tebow's talent can carry a team, but the system needs to be tailored to his abilities and nothing more.
 
Om said:
What I don't undertand is the apparent need to say he's EITHER a starter right now OR he's a bust. Which is why I think the Broncos are screwing this up. They have the perfect formula to let him learn behind an all time great for 2-3 years. No pressure. Find out if the kid can grow into a starter.
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Do we know for sure that it's the Broncos who are initiating the trade talk, and not Tebow pushing for it, or insisting on it ?
 
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