Penn State Scandal: The Freeh Report

[tshile]

Tshile, I challenge you to find where I have said that my job is more important than reporting the crime. It is being reported via the rules that are set in place – if I follow them. Do you really think I am that kind of a person??? Do you? Too, please don’t quote me out of context to suggest that I have no problems with child abuse. Furthermore, I have not defined my “set of morals” and if you feel the need to define them for me here, then please know that I will not extend you the same “courtesy”. Again, all I’m doing is sharing with everyone what is expected of a teacher/coach when confronted with such a heinous crime. Just think if schools and academic institutions had NO policies and procedures in place. That would be tragic.

You said you think he will be exonerated. Part of your reasoning is this:

If you are a teacher and continued to go over the principal's head without consulting her/him first, then you are subject to termination. Quickly. End of story right there.

You imply that because of this, this means Paterno doesn't have the liability we've all placed on him in this case.

So... you're saying that it's understandable to pick protecting your own job over protecting children.

I didn't define your morals for you, you did when you started justifying Paterno's actions by saying that he 'followed the rules' and 'didn't break the law'. I even gave you an out when I said:
"(maybe these aren't your morals and you're playing devil's advocate? I can't tell at this point)"

Now, I may be completely misunderstanding you or you may be playing devil's advocate. If that's the case, then please let me know.

I'm certainly not trying to offend you but I'm not going to let you stand here and talk about how Paterno didn't do anything wrong because he followed protocol; children were being raped. Protocol goes out of the window. Cops should have been called immediately. And emotion has jack all to do with it - it's called common sense.

 

[Henry]

Then you lose your job. And I will take this a step further.

You also lose the right to any of the resources at your disposal via the school system - including legal counsel. Let's say the perv who committed this crime accuses the witness of actually keeping watch for anyone coming. The perv knows he/she is doomed, but is more than willing to bring someone else along - even though it is not true. Sure, the one reporting the crime will probably be acquitted of any crimes. But it will be the responsibility of the individual to cover his/her lawyer fees and not the school system.

But let's say this person is wrongly convicted. I don't think there is any need to elaborate any further. I'm sure you get the idea.

Another disclaimer. This scenario was part of a case study for me (and other new teachers) more than thirty years ago.

I can say with almost absolute certainty that there is no way Joe Paterno at PSU would lose his job for turning in a child rapist. This is not a typical school/teacher situation or relationship. There are buildings with his name on it. There is (was) a 900 pound statue of him in front of the stadium. The man WAS Penn State. While the school may have technically been able to fire him it was never, ever, ever ... ever ever ever ever ever going to happen simply because he didn't follow protocol in order to protect a child. Never ever going to happen. There is no way Paterno avoided telling authorities what was going on because he feared getting fired.

... and does anyone think Paterno couldn't have afforded a lawyer if he needed one?

 

[Burgundy Burner]

BB, that's my problem with Paterno, and why I don't think his legacy will be restored at all. He went to his superiors, they covered it up, and he did nothing. At the point that he saw them not doing anything about it, he should have gone to the cops. Period. He didn't, therefore he is part of the problem. A major part of the problem.

I want everyone to read this statement several times. I can't say it any better than how it is stated here.

So why did I say he could be exonerated many years down the road? Well, the investigation will undoubtedly go in this direction. Paterno's former players and cast of admirers will focus more on the fact that he did the right thing initially and with the passage of time (which has a way of healing wounds to a certain degree), the public could have a more favorable view of him.

Then you will have a sports writer or two and a sports broadcaster or two who will try to look at the coach in a different way. From there, the support could grow. Fully exonerated? No. Subtle changes along the way though? Possibley so. I'm not saying this will happen with a 100% certainty, but we know how short memories can be sometimes. However, the victims and their families will never forget.

 

[Ax]

The criminal investigation, going forward, will likely take Paterno down even further in the eyes of all but his most blinded supporters. His name can't be mentioned without remembering all this. He is forever stained.

 

[Lanky Livingston]

So BB, you're telling me that in a high school setting, a teacher would be FIRED for calling the police if he witnesses the rape of a student?

I really, really hope you are wrong about this, because otherwise our school system is the most twisted, back-asswards institution of all time. I mean, REALLY?

 

[Burgundy Burner]

I have an idea. Some of you who are arguing against these rules and procudures, feel free to run for the local school board on the platform of saying that a teacher should have the option of going to the law directly before telling the admin. I can guarantee that the teachers union and all educational advocates would run a strong campaign against you.

Since several of you insist on making me the focal point and suggesting that I am willing to put job first...

Just know that I can do the right thing AND keep my job. If the perv accuses me of being a watchperson for his/her crimes, then I have the full resources and support of the school system. If I go to local authorities first, then I could face the prospect of going it alone. I have no desire to go to prison if I have been wrongly convicted. Shouldn't the focus be on the real criminal and the healing that these children will need?

One other thing. I'm not the one who put these policies into the system. I'm just telling you what is there. Is there anything wrong with informing anyone of these procedures? Again, if it bothers you enough, run for the local school board. That is your right.

 

[Goaldeje]

Lanky, it's not that simple (can't believe I'm typing this). First off, there is a lot of subjectiveness in rape, and if you go to the police and file accusations against someone that turn out to be false, irrecoverable damages have already happened that both you and the institution you represent can be liable for. How many stories have we heard about young women who cry rape, then admit later to just wanting attention?

Now, obviously, that's not what happened here. JoePa was big enough that as someone pointed out, comparing him to a teacher is not a great analogy. As Henry pointed out, no chance JoePa gets fired for turning in a child rapist. He did what he should have done, initially. He completely and utterly failed after that. His silence allowed more children to be psychologically shattered, and for that his legacy will never come back, in my opinion.

 

[tshile]

Honestly this business has tainted even my feeling about professional football a little. How often are we looking the other way? How often do our coaches and front offices sweep things under the rug in order to preserve our almighty football teams? I don't know, and before this all happened I didn't really want to know. And that's been part of the problem. I don't want to be part of that problem anymore.

I can't help but feel the same way. I'm not a college football fan, and I certainly have no allegiance to PSU. But I can't help but wonder how much responsibility society has for allowing football to become what it has; which I am as big of a part of as anyone else.
It makes me sick to my stomach when i think about it.

 

[tshile]

I have an idea. Some of you who are arguing against these rules and procudures, feel free to run for the local school board on the platform of saying that a teacher should have the option of going to the law directly before telling the admin. I can guarantee that the teachers union and all educational advocates would run a strong campaign against you.

Since several of you insist on making me the focal point and suggesting that I am willing to put job first...

Just know that I can do the right thing AND keep my job. If the perv accuses me of being a watchperson for his/her crimes, then I have the full resources and support of the school system. If I go to local authorities first, then I could face the prospect of going it alone. I have no desire to go to prison if I have been wrongly convicted. Shouldn't the focus be on the real criminal and the healing that these children will need?

One other thing. I'm not the one who put these policies into the system. I'm just telling you what is there. Is there anything wrong with informing anyone of these procedures? Again, if it bothers you enough, run for the local school board. That is your right.

Hiding behind rules and policies for a decade and a half is inexcusable.

People in the military will tell you the exact same thing, and they're a little bit more strict about their rules and policies than the education system.

I'm sorry, you're wrong on this one. You give the structure and policies in place a chance, but a decade and a half is 14 years and 360 days too long.

edit: all that being said I can't help but think I'm misunderstanding you on this one.

 

[Ax]

An anonymous 911 call gets around the protocol. If job security is the concern.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

And even IF you get fired, WHO CARES?! We're talking about stopping rape.
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Just pray that you never have to witness such a crime and report it. If it does happen, just hope and pray that the true criminal doesn't take you down with him/her.

So BB, you're telling me that in a high school setting, a teacher would be FIRED for calling the police if he witnesses the rape of a student?

I really, really hope you are wrong about this, because otherwise our school system is the most twisted, back-asswards institution of all time. I mean, REALLY?

No. As stated earlier, the teacher may face the unlikely prospect of his/her superiors not reporting the crime. At that juncture, the teacher is legally obligated to go to the authorities.

I'm not wrong about it Lanky. Goal said the same thing a couple of pages back, albeit with one minor exception (reporting it to the school nurse). His wife understands why these policies are in place. I fully understand it and we are both fully trained in what to do and what not to do in these situations. It is not backwards. This is based on decades of experience across the educational realm and is part of a legal precedent that has been in place for many, many years. It is there to protect ALL innocent souls.

Another disclaimer. I have used the term "precedent" for specfic reasons.

 

[Goaldeje]

Take me down? How? Im not going to jail for reporting it and I've already told you my job isnt more important than reporting a childs rape. That's more your concern.
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Allright, settle down. I think BB is saying that if someone is unscrupulous enough to rape a child, they are certainly unscrupulos enough to lie about it, and to turn the blame to you, if you are not careful to cover your ass. I think we all agree that covering your ass should be of a secondary concern to stopping a child rapist, but having the child rapist get off because of a technicality, or because you were in a rush to report it and didn't cross t's and dot i's would be counter-productive as well, right?

I don't want to speak for BB, but I think he is saying that in that situation, you need to be very, VERY careful, not because you are worried about your job, but because you DON'T want the pervert to run free.

 

[tshile]

BB: I think i finally understand where you're coming from. I think that sort of thing applies to 99% of the incidents that are out there. I also understand why following it in the 1% is important, as you've outlined multiple times in a few different ways. I think there needs to be some exceptions where the situation is egregious like the one at PSU was. I do think I finally understand what you're saying though. I apologize for taking so long

edit: I also don't think Joe Paterno would have been subject to the things you're suggesting a typically faculty member would be. You're point still stands, but I disagree that Paterno will be exonerated in the future. Time will prove who is right though

 

[Burgundy Burner]

Hiding behind rules and policies for a decade and a half is inexcusable.

People in the military will tell you the exact same thing, and they're a little bit more strict about their rules and policies than the education system.

I'm sorry, you're wrong on this one. You give the structure and policies in place a chance, but a decade and a half is 14 years and 360 days too long.

edit: all that being said I can't help but think I'm misunderstanding you on this one.

Did officials at PSU hide behind policies for a decade or more? The only way we can answer it now is to let the legal process take its course and see if that is what happened. I tend to say that the policies went out the door the minute the cover up began, but that is just my opinion. Chances are good that this is what occurred. In time, we will have more details.

I'm not sure what you are saying when I am wrong about something. I've talked at length about the policies and why they are in place. I'm not misrepresenting it at all. As stated in the aforementioned paragraph, the system failed at PSU because of the cover up in my opinion. It started to go in the right direction, but it quickly eroded at that juncture.

I believe it is easy to misunderstand one another when the emotions are running high. Just glad that we are talking about it in a civil manner.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

I'll go ahead and say this. I hope Paterno is never exonerated. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt early on, mostly from the legal standpoint, but the reality is there. If he was still alive and could face a trial, chances are there that he may walk free on a technicality. I just have this uneasy feeling that the passage of time and this one so-called technicality will give him a pass to whatever degree.

But I wish the policies would've been followed in State College. There would still be some victims (and any number of victims above zero is too many), but the numbers would be fewer. Sandusky is one of the worst things I have ever heard about and the cover up is close behind.

Tshile, it is all good. No need to apologize for taking a moral stand. I will never, ever fault anyone for being on the right side of this tragedy. And I see no one here in this thread who is in that sinking boat.

Wow. I'm worn out and the day is not even half over.

 

[Goaldeje]

Mike, take a deep breath my friend. And go reread the thread. We are talking about two different things here. I think I have been fairly clear and steadfast in my condemnation of what happened at PSU. Sandusky is a maggot, so is JoePa, so are the officials who knew about this sicko's actions and did nothing to stop it. JoePa did what he should have done, initially, and then failed miserably, as I think I have said before. Were he still alive, some serious jail time would be in order.

The paragraph you were talking about was me talking about WHY the rules are in place regarding chain of command that BB referenced. Not only do they protect the whistleblower, they also are there to ensure that the perp gets busted and doesn't escape on a technicality.

As I said before, if your superior sits on the info to cover it up, then hell yes, you need to go over his/her head and to the authorities. And again, as I have said, that is where Paterno failed miserably. Disgustingly.

 

[Burgundy Burner]

In a roundabout way Goal, that is basically where I am coming from.

Mike, I have no problems with the emotions that you are showing in this thread. We all want justice and fairness. Getting there can be frustrating, but that is to be expected.

 

[Henry]

Yeah, I'm finally catching up too. What was the point of the last few pages?

 

[Goaldeje]

So I ask fot you to not tell me to calm down and you tell me to take a deep breath.

Yeah, I'm done too. You've missed my entire point as well as I've missed yours apparently but I'm done.
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Fair enough. My apologies if I offended you, sincerely.

 

[Goaldeje]

Yeah, I'm finally catching up too. What was the point of the last few pages?

Interwebz fights. Duh.