Penalties

[Utah]

I think the balance aspect to that rule will be a forced compliance by the offense. The rule was absolutely put in place due to offensive coaches sprinting players on and off to create the mismatch and then also have a shot at getting the defense with too many players on the field. Since teams will find a way to skirt the rule and still cause the penalty, the NFL basically said, this is our line and if you want to cross it, there is a consequence. Its why the officials also have the ability to kill a play if they feel that the offense got to much of an advantage on the scenario. I think the rule needs to be a bit more defined/structured but I love the idea if the offense is going to push the envelope with this tactic, then a TO or a slow moving defense becomes the consequence.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I get all that. Maybe I’m just a herd ass about it, but I still go back to, if they’re sprinting people on a sn off, the defense can do the same. One side is trying to manipulate the situation to their benefit, the other side needs to make sure they can’t.

I guess I just don’t care if it’s an offensive advantage if the offense is well tuned enough to pull it off. Because I’ve seen plenty of times where an offense has tried to pull it off and caught themselves, been late lining up, been mass confusion, etc.

You have the length of the play clock. Get the people in you want and go.

Maybe that’s archaic. But I think we’re over complicating things and putting more on the refs than they can legitimately handle.

This is an argument I know I’m in the minority on and won’t win or convince people.

But that’s not going to change my mind! 🤣

 

[tomwvr]

Great post. As I watched the game last night a Falcons OL was called for the exact same thing Cosmi was called for, pushing a guy who had lost his balance down was called holding. But we only remember the Cosmi call.

I'm glad to see this thread, I had meant to comment on the penalties earlier. This team at times commits a lot of stupid, unnecessary penalties and that needs to be cleaned up.

And that is why I thought during the game that only 1-2 flags were questionable - because it was being called on both sides. What I hate is when REFS call penalties on one side and then ignore it on the other side and you do see that quite often

 

[tomwvr]

I think the balance aspect to that rule will be a forced compliance by the offense. The rule was absolutely put in place due to offensive coaches sprinting players on and off to create the mismatch and then also have a shot at getting the defense with too many players on the field. Since teams will find a way to skirt the rule and still cause the penalty, the NFL basically said, this is our line and if you want to cross it, there is a consequence. Its why the officials also have the ability to kill a play if they feel that the offense got to much of an advantage on the scenario. I think the rule needs to be a bit more defined/structured but I love the idea if the offense is going to push the envelope with this tactic, then a TO or a slow moving defense becomes the consequence.

Simple solution pause the play clock if the Defense runs on subs for more than 5 seconds

 

[burgold]

Even though we got called for a boatload (Noah's Arc's worth) of penalties, I don't think the Falcons' game was egregious in terms of us getting reffed. I'd have to study the game tape to see if the refs were really calling the game evenly or if Atlanta was the beneficiary of noncalls when we were called for everything. Like many have said, the penalties that were called were at least penalties.

Now in the game against the Saints, the refs were crooked and out to get us. There is no possibility that the game was called honestly and objectively.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Yeah I agree, most of the calls were correct. I looked it up and flags are not more common today than 10 years ago. Maybe it's because I care more but I'm telling you right after every big play I literally wait 4 seconds before celebrating and that really sucks.

 

[burgold]

Yeah, me too. Way too many reversals on ticky tack calls or even ghost calls that don't affect the play.

 

[Discobob]

I think that's exactly it, but there ought to be something that prevents the D from stalling the substitution so long that it forces play clock down to practically zero. I have literally seen the ref guard the snap until there was three seconds left on the clock. And it's happened a lot. Too often.

There should be some sort of rule that the refs have to get out of the way at 5 seconds remaining on the play clock, regardless of the situation.

 

[mistertim]

I think a major issue with the substitutions is that it's hard to quantify and then roll into a regulation. Most people can probably agree that a defense should be allowed a "reasonable amount of time" to sub if the offense does...but how do you define "reasonable amount of time"? If you make some arbitrary choice, say 12 seconds, then someone will inevitably whine about how it's either too long or too short and gives the other side an advantage.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

There should be some sort of rule that the refs have to get out of the way at 5 seconds remaining on the play clock, regardless of the situation.

Why the play clock continues to run as the ref blocks the offense is mind boggling to me.

My other pet peeve is it's never called when the play clock is at 0. Because the clock is not in site of the official who is looking down the LOS. Why would it be so hard to put a clock, or a red light or whatever to signal the clock has stopped on the far sideline directly down the LOS. This way the ref can see the violation and the rules will actually be applied. Such a simple solution to an obvious problem.

 

[Utah]

All ideas I would assume will be on the table to manage this better. I guarantee the time aspect of the rule will not change. The offense has 40 seconds to run another play or call a TO. That 40 seconds is the complete responsibility of the offense and how they want to use it. The defense has no effect on it. However, the only restriction placed on the offense during this time will be you can not create a scenario that gives yourself the advantage over the defense. Time will not be stopped during the active play of the game. Unless, of course, you call a time out.

I also, having a very contentious relationship with officials already, do not want to add another aspect to their job. Its more than difficult enough.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I watched the game again last night on the NFL Network. I saw the play I referenced earlier where the Quinn, Kingsbury, and Daniels were asking for a play clock reset and had to call a timeout. I was even more bothered by the refs watching it again. By the time everyone was unpiled from the previous play, the play clock is at 25 seconds. Quinn is shown at around 20 seconds asking for a play clock reset. Kingsbury is asking for a reset a few seconds latter. So this isn’t a situation where the coaches weren’t doing their job. The refs then start to do their hold for a defensive sub, announce eligible lineman, etc. Daniels is now asking for a reset because the play clock is at 2. They call a timeout #2 to avoid the delay of game penalty.

What bothers me is that the refs themselves were still helping players up and doing all the post play stuff while subs were happening and linemen were reporting eligible. So they weren’t ready on that play either. That should have been a play clock reset. Not a full reset to 40, but they should have reset back to 25 when they realized they weren’t doing their jobs at the right time. That would have been at most a 10 second difference which is minor in the larger scheme of the game. But if I had to guess, the refs had no clue what was happening and just assumed offensive subs were running on late.

 

[Utah]

The reset of the play clock to :25 is because of an official administrative situation. Getting off a pile or substituting players is not part of that rule. We coaches make that mistake a ton of times. The officials will tell you, "if you want us to set the ball faster so you can go up tempo, then get your guys off the pile and get yourself ready to go". The officials will flag anyone for delay of game if they are inhibited by a player on either side from being able to do their job as fast as humanly possible.

Not defending poorly executed responsibilities by the officials.....I just know if an official feels like they are doing their job properly, you won't win by complaining that they are not.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Thank you for your insight. That’s pretty much what I expected and for refs to say as well. I couldn’t see what the refs were or weren’t doing, other than unpiling players until the next shot showed Quinn asking for a reset then a few seconds later the refs seen doing their thing to hold up the play. That’s what leads me to believe they weren’t executing their responsibilities properly, but maybe they were and that’s on the offense to get things done quicker.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

All ideas I would assume will be on the table to manage this better. I guarantee the time aspect of the rule will not change. The offense has 40 seconds to run another play or call a TO. That 40 seconds is the complete responsibility of the offense and how they want to use it. The defense has no effect on it. However, the only restriction placed on the offense during this time will be you can not create a scenario that gives yourself the advantage over the defense. Time will not be stopped during the active play of the game. Unless, of course, you call a time out.

I also, having a very contentious relationship with officials already, do not want to add another aspect to their job. Its more than difficult enough.

Correction the offense has 41 seconds as they never throw a flag at 40 seconds because they can't see the clock on the scoreboard while looking down the LOS at the same time.

I feel badly for the kicker who held the record for the longest field goal that Justin Tucker broke. On the play before the Ravens were given at least an additional 2 seconds after the play clock expired to run a play that went for yardage before the player went out of bounds. They should have never gotten a kick off if the officials did their job.