Our 2018 starting QB will be....

There was a made up uproar and outrage that Cousins had ‘scrubbed' all references to the Redskins from his Twitter page the day after the regular season ended. I went back and compared it to his October page - zero difference. Drama.


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Ax said:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...hould-let-kirk-cousins-walk-marvin-lewis-deal

A repeat of what many have been saying, but it's consolidated pretty well.
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Cousins has been a stat-stuffer at the position, but his individual play hasn't gotten the Redskins over the hump. Sure, you can point to his ever-changing supporting cast and a subpar defense as reasons for the team's mediocrity, but $25 million quarterbacks -- which is the neighborhood Cousins was in for 2017, having signed a second consecutive franchise tag for $23.94 million -- are expected to elevate the play of the team regardless of circumstance.
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The New Orleans Saints finished 7-9 the last three seasons.

Was Drew Brees just a stat stuffer or was it that his individual play just couldn't get them over the hump?
 
DieselPwr44 said:
The New Orleans Saints finished 7-9 the last three seasons.

Was Drew Brees just a stat stuffer or was it that his individual play just couldn't get them over the hump?
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Lots of things go into a team record. Do you think Brees had ever shown he can lift the team up? Your about Cousins? To me the answers are yes and no. I like Cousins, but I've yet to feel like he's willed and lifted the team to a win. He's certainly had flashes.
 
Ax said:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...hould-let-kirk-cousins-walk-marvin-lewis-deal

A repeat of what many have been saying, but it's consolidated pretty well.
Click to expand...

having signed a second consecutive franchise tag for $23.94 million -- are expected to elevate the play of the team regardless of circumstance....
While the circumstances are slightly different, I think the Redskins could learn a lesson about overpaying for a quarterback that you know can't elevate the franchise
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One can definitely make the argument that Cousins did indeed elevate the players around him to a considerable degree.
On a team whose number 1 receiver is Ryan Grant, and whose rushing game averaged 90 yards a game, and whose offensive line contained mostly street players for much of the season, and whose defense was ranked 21st in the NFL, not to mention horrendous Special Teams play and repeated fumbles, how could anyone reasonably predict he'd give them as much as 7 wins ? He certainly elevated a few more wins than almost any current QB would have, under those circumstances.
 
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DixieFlatline said:
Lots of things go into a team record. Do you think Brees had ever shown he can lift the team up? Your about Cousins? To me the answers are yes and no. I like Cousins, but I've yet to feel like he's willed and lifted the team to a win. He's certainly had flashes.
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Has Brees ever lifted a team up without a defense and a running game?

Because the last three seasons, he was only benching 7-9.

So now that he's got a top 5 D and one of the best RB duos in the league, did he lift them to the playoffs?
 
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DieselPwr44 said:
Has Brees ever lifted a team up without a defense and a running game?
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Well, let me state it this way. This year both the Saints and Skins were 7-9. Fairly comparable in results. In our game against them, when we couldn't finish them off and had to punt, did you feel like a ton of people that with Brees we gave them too much time? If so, have you ever felt that way about Cousins?
 
DixieFlatline said:
Well, let me state it this way. This year both the Saints and Skins were 7-9. Fairly comparable in results. In our game against them, when we couldn't finish them off and had to punt, did you feel like a ton of people that with Brees we gave them too much time? If so, have you ever felt that way about Cousins?
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Actually, the Saints were 11-5
 
Brees already has a ring. Those with rings get the benefit of doubt. Those without have to earn it.

Winning in the clutch is one big requirement. Stats are optional.
 
Ax said:
Brees already has a ring. Those with rings get the benefit of doubt. Those without have to earn it.

Winning in the clutch is one big requirement. Stats are optional.
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Kind of what I was thinking. One has a Super Bowl ring. The other has fallen flat on his face when trying to get into the playoffs last year (with all the pieces people said he was missing this year) against a team with literally nothing to play for and this year had among the top 2-3 worst games of any QB at all this season, all the while having hopes of being the highest-paid player in the league.
 
I love how the metric changes for Qbs.

Joe Theismann never sees a ring without the Hogs and John Riggins carrying him there.

Doug Williams and Mark Rypien never get a ring without the Hogs, running game and defense provided for them.

When it comes to Cousins, he's not required anything except a few street free agents and 28th ranked defense and a bum special teams.

Was he responsible for blowing a 15 point lead in New Orleans inside of two minutes?
Last year in Detroit, he engineered the drive that gave us the lead with one minute left on the clock. Was he responsible for blowing that lead inside of a minute?

This sounds like the thinking of Bruce. It's why no one can win here.

Here's NFL.com's take with Charley Casserly chiming in.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...make-kirk-cousins-the-highestpaid-player-ever

What a mess this Front Office has created.
 
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I don't think anyone is saying "all or nothing" with Cousins.

Just that we've pretty much seen both his floor and his ceiling and there really isn't anything that suggests he can take this team the next step forward. Someone the caliber of Brees does have and has had a higher ceiling. This isn't just this year. Cousins had all his weapons at his disposal last year and a chance to make the playoffs against a Giants team that could have afforded to even put it's scout team out there and crapped the bed. This year, he easily throws one of the worst games of any QB all season against that same Giants team, but this year they're 2-13 at the time and the second-worst Defense in the league with three of their starting DB's on IR.

I think it's safe to say his ceiling has already been shown.

Casserly, a badly overrated GM if there ever is one, giving quotes about "the process" from Brady is a bit disingenuous. Brady was lights-out just about the day he first hit the field. There was no "process."
 
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DieselPwr44 said:
I love how the metric changes for Qbs.

Joe Theismann never sees a ring without the Hogs and John Riggins carrying him there.

Doug Williams and Mark Rypien never get a ring without the Hogs, running game and defense provided for them.
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Nobody has ever claimed that a QB doesn't need the pieces around him to win. Theismann is a good comparison for #8 . Both had limited ability. Though Theismann's desire for winning was more visible to the naked eye. Both benefited from the system tailored to their strengths. But Theismann played for the best coach, ever. Gibbs could win with #8 . Gruden has shown no signs of being able to win with, well, anybody.

Williams and Rypien are classic examples of average/below average QB's winning a Championship because of their surrounding cast. Of course #8 could do the same thing. But so could half, or more, of the QB's in the league.

When it comes to Cousins, he's not required anything except a few street free agents and 28th ranked defense and a bum special teams.
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I believe our SBXVII winning team had the most free agents of any team to ever win it. And.........the Pearl Harbor Crew. ;)
Was he responsible for blowing a 15 point lead in New Orleans inside of two minutes?
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Ah yes. He and the offense couldn't pick up the game clinching 6 inches needed to secure the victory. Everybody knows you can't give Drew Brees the ball with enough time left to kick your ass. People say that about #8 ....never.

Last year in Detroit, he engineered the drive that gave us the lead with one minute left on the clock. Was he responsible for blowing that lead inside of a minute?
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Again, with 1 minute left on the clock, Stafford has a history of winning drives. He's respected as a guy who's done it to a bunch of teams. #8 , is not, and has not.

This sounds like the thinking of Bruce. It's why no one can win here.
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I'm sure many felt that way back in the 50's. They were wrong too.
Here's NFL.com's take with Charley Casserly chiming in.
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The .com has people advocating both sides of the argument. That's normal, and will continue.
And as much as you despise Bruce, remind me WTF Charlie Casserly ever did as a GM that was special. Oh, my bad, ex GM. Because nobody thinks much of his ability either. When he got the title here, the team was already established. He rode that wave for 3 years and got a ring. From that point forward, the team got horribly worse. From the time Gibbs left, he went to hell in a hand bag. Gibbs made Beathard look better than he was. Though he was good. Casserly fell flat on his face. He then had a 4 year disastrous record in Houston. And nobody has wanted him since, for anything more than talking. So please, let's not give his opinion any more credence than Bucky Brooks opposing view.
 
What seems to be forgotten here is that in 2015 and 2016 the Redskins offense had VERY GOOD supporting players for Kirk Cousins, and he was throwing for good yardage each week between the 20's. The OL had two pro bowl caliber players in Trent and Brandon and Morgan Moses was beginning to show he was an above average performer at RT as well.

Kirk was sacked very few times and often had time to throw. He had two 1,000 yard receivers in Garcon and Jackson and a TE in Jordan Reed that had 70 plus catches.

However, with THOSE ASSETS on the field, Kirk failed to get it done in key games to help the Redskins advance.

So, people can point to Drew Brees and say 'well, he didn't produce much in terms of wins without help'................that's fine.

BUT, when he DID have help as he did from 2006-2012 and again this year you can see that he DOES make a difference on an individual level in taking his team to victories.

He did that this year against the Redskins to erase a double digit deficit and come out with the win.

I don't recall Brees having those 'choke' games with talent around him as Kirk did against the Panthers, Cardinals or Giants in 2016.

One thing's for sure, Brees wouldn't have thrown that pick in the end zone to Garcon against double coverage high and low to lose any chance of advancing to the playoffs.

Not only was Garcon well-covered but it was FIRST DOWN and the Redskins had 3 more chances to put the ball in the end zone to win the game.

Instead, Kirk threw it away on one roll of the dice on a pass that didn't have a prayer shot in hell of being completed.

What he and his agent, Mr. MoneyBags don't understand is THAT is the crucible where a quarterback in the NFL proves his worth and cashes in the performance to get a big contract.

Cousins can throw the ball between the 20's all he wants and go for 325 against the 3-13 Bears or 295 and 3 touchdowns against the 5-11 Eagles in 2015, but those performances ARE EXPECTED of an upper echelon quarterback when facing less than average defenses.

What separates the guys that really get paid is going against a very good defense and doing what Carson Wentz was doing this year, beating them anyway despite good coverages and a visible pass rush.
 
I've seen people suggest Alex Smith would be the QB next year.
So I assumed he'd be a free agent. But now I see he is not, so the only way to acquire him is trade, and the price is going to be too high.
Chiefs say they would entertain offers, but would not look for them. That tells me they are not desperate to unload him.
So in effect, they're not going to give any discounts in a trade. Plus factor in he's having probably his best year as a pro, leading the league in passer rating. The price to trade for him, is going to be close to the price to trade up for a QB inside the 1st round - and most people agree that is not going to happen.
 
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