Official Game Thread - Week 14 - Commanders @ Vikings

[SkinsLife]

I also was heavily worried about JD and thought he was the third best QB before we drafted him.
Last year, he showed me what he could do.

The D absolutely has relevance. Maye doesn't worry as much about throwing picks, and he does throw picks. The NEP win those games not because Maye also throws TDs - it's also because the D makes stops, which means the playbook stays open (Maye takes risks still). It matters, bigtime. You don't seem to understand how much D and O can indeed affect each other in major ways.

However, this year I see his durability issues, sure, but I also see a lot of unnecessary hits being taken. I am very confident that Maye takes less damage (and yes, he is probably more durable too - but ALSO takes less damage!) because of the scheme.

Just one major example - many QBs talk about some of the advantages of playing under center - and yet Kliff doesn't have JD play under center. That is supposedly somewhat on JD, but personally, I think Kliff needs to force that issue if that's true. I just don't buy it- Kliff has ALWAYS favored shotgun including at Arizona. It's one of the reasons that I think this scheme is flawed.

This is why I don't like talking about Maye vs JD. I hear you on the concerns - but I just don't believe Kliff's scheme is a winner in the NFL. I don't think you can plug any QB in and expect very different results. I think if you put JD in NE, or put JD in Minn, I think he's having a lot more success.

I don't agree with you (at all) that you can simply say "Maye under center makes this team better" - just like last year, you would have said "Maye under center doesn't make this team better." It's meaningless, there are too many variables at play to know that. I get that Maye looks better this year, 100%, but acting like we can take a player off one team and put him in another team that runs a completely different scheme and wholly different variables? I mean, unless you think JD just sucks, it doesn't make sense.

If you think "JD just sucks" and that's your position, make that clear because I won't waste my time, we've figured out the disagreement. JD has struggled, I don't think he has benefitted from coaching and scheme that other QBs have.

of course a good Defense makes the Os job easier.. same as good O makes D job easier. There are also plenty of teams where O carries the D.. like Cin, Buf, Dal, Mia, etc. You cant blame all O struggles on this D. This O hasn't looked right even when healthy with JD under center.. great QBs can elevate an O... bad ones dont... this year JD hasnt been good.
Maye was good last year... with NO help... he got much better this year with a little more help. Thats two years of consistent growth.. he has been elite this year with sub par supporting cast.
JD regressed... on top of not being able to stay healthy. Its ludicrous to say that Maye cant play in this system because a good O coordinator will tailor his O to the QBs strength.. and while i am not convinced Kingsbury is a great OC.. he is still one of the better O minds in the NFL. Hell JD was rookie of the year in his system.. so it definitely works.
Finally i dont think JD sucks.. i do think Maye is better at this point. I am far more concerned that JD cant stay healthy.. if he cant stay on the field it really doesnt matter how good he is... he becomes a liability.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Especially with our head coach in charge of the defense.

Once again though - so much attention the defense.

Kliff is somehow unblamed, even when the team scores 0 points. Unbelievable.

Just heard on Bears v Packers:
Brady says, "Ben Johnson has designed so many different run looks, creative, it makes it easier to get these running backs going" <- something to that effect.
I am always surprised at how Redskin fans don't understand the importance of the run game in today's NFL.

 

[skinsinparadise]

 

[skinsinparadise]

 

[Conn]

No, not really. Kraft had made it known Mayo was the coach in waiting. We are talking about the NFL here. You act like Kraft is some saint lol.

It’s not about Kraft being a good person or whatever. He obviously isn’t. Vrabel, career Patriot, would not agree to wait a year to coach the program knowing that another career Patriot in Mayo was getting shafted with a pre-ordained single season as HC after being groomed all that time as the coach in waiting, as you say. He just doesn’t operate that way. He’s an old school guy (which is also probably why a bunch of owners weren’t interested in interviewing him, btw). He wouldn’t accept a wink-wink deal knowing Mayo already got the shaft before even beginning his tenure as Patriots HC. It’s just an unrealistic scenario that you cooked up, it’s fine.

 

[JoeyG]

of course a good Defense makes the Os job easier.. same as good O makes D job easier. There are also plenty of teams where O carries the D.. like Cin, Buf, Dal, Mia, etc. You cant blame all O struggles on this D. This O hasn't looked right even when healthy with JD under center.. great QBs can elevate an O... bad ones dont... this year JD hasnt been good.
Maye was good last year... with NO help... he got much better this year with a little more help. Thats two years of consistent growth.. he has been elite this year with sub par supporting cast.
JD regressed... on top of not being able to stay healthy. Its ludicrous to say that Maye cant play in this system because a good O coordinator will tailor his O to the QBs strength.. and while i am not convinced Kingsbury is a great OC.. he is still one of the better O minds in the NFL. Hell JD was rookie of the year in his system.. so it definitely works.
Finally i dont think JD sucks.. i do think Maye is better at this point. I am far more concerned that JD cant stay healthy.. if he cant stay on the field it really doesnt matter how good he is... he becomes a liability.

I agree with what you said about Maye vs. Daniels-Maye is probably better right now but Daniels is still very good. My only concern about Daniels has been durability and that problem seems to be growing every week. The coaching aspect is real and I think Maye is in a better situation with better coaching on both sides of the ball. Today was an excellent example. What would our record be if we had Minnesota's coaching staff?-even with the injuries

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Is it just me, or was Jayden's body language awful at the end of this one? I'm not a mind-reader, but it looked like a 'why in God's name did this team draft me?' kind of a look

His demeanor really changed after the Ertz injury. The team loves that guy.

But yeah, Jayden smiles when losing and fans say he’s not taking wins and losses seriously. He’s pissed off after a loss and injury to him and a potentially career ending injury to one of his favorite targets, and it must mean he doesn’t want to be on the team.

Everyone come off the ledge. This was a horrible game in every sense of the word. But no need to overreact and read into every facial expression. The next thing will be someone saying his friendly handshake with O’Connell was him saying “come get me”.

 

[Conn]

I quoted a tweet saying something similar to what I said and exactly what I meant. You are quibbling over semantics and refusing to acknowledge my clarification. I don’t know why. Here’s the conversation in question with the context you are ignoring:

Faithful Fan: I knew we were in trouble when the whole team was celebrating the moral victory when we dropped our 7th straight game last week.

Conn: Nobody celebrated that, what are you talking about. Locker room was like a funeral while Quinn gave his post-game speech.

Fans treated it like a moral victory, which has nothing to do with the team

Faithful Fan: Okay maybe not celebrating, but DQ did say they “recaptured that competitive dog” and “we’re not lost anymore,” and such. The message to the team from coaches, media, and fans was “good job.”

Faithful Fan: [Look JP Finlay said] what I said.



Conn: [That is not what you said]

You went from talking about how the team was acting (“the whole team was celebrating”) to the message everyone else was sending to the team.

I’m sorry but those are complete opposite things. I’ll stop picking at it but clarifying your position to the exact opposite statement is not a thing. That’s why I didn’t acknowledge it. Your initial post was bullshit and then you pivoted when corrected, but still wanted credit for being “right” when someone else made a point you considered to be similar later (even though Finlay is talking about Quinn, not “the whole team”). That’s all. The perils of communicating in long form on an old school forum like this is that it’s easy to be sucked into nitpicking the minutiae.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

JD regressed... on top of not being able to stay healthy. Its ludicrous to say that Maye cant play in this system because a good O coordinator will tailor his O to the QBs strength.. and while i am not convinced Kingsbury is a great OC.. he is still one of the better O minds in the NFL. Hell JD was rookie of the year in his system.. so it definitely works.
Finally i dont think JD sucks.. i do think Maye is better at this point. I am far more concerned that JD cant stay healthy.. if he cant stay on the field it really doesnt matter how good he is... he becomes a liability.

Cool, we are definitely closer on our opinions than I originally thought - but look -
when you score 0 points as they did today, someone sucks. So it's either Kliff or JD, isn't it? I mean, it wasn't the running backs, because they weren't used enough.
So who is it?

You seem to be saying that Kliff is good enough. "One of the better O minds in the NFL" - was not actually in the NFL right before this gig. Yes, he was probably coming back, but the reason he was out -- you remember, right? And now, he did just lead this debacle as OC, and he did have this team getting blown out in multiple games, right? So many people here are blaming that completely on injuries - we don't *win* those games with the injuries, but I don't let Kliff off the hook for the overall performance of the O in those blowouts.

I agree with you - if JD can't stay healthy, it truly doesn't matter how good or bad he is. I think he can stay healthy with better coaching. I think he's smart. Right now, from my vantage point - I blame the coaches.

You can't throw out last year, that's part of my point to you: JD looked better than Maye last year. Why?

Anyway, I think we have major core points we agree on, although they are kind of obvious. Still, there are plenty of people here who argue what I think are obvious... haha.

I actually think that Maye on this team may throw way too many picks per game. He's a gunslinger and a risk taker, and this team with its D? It's not a good team for a guy who is more willing to throw picks. I mean, you could be right - maybe Maye in Kliff's system is some kind of great fit, but even there - my issue is I don't think Kliff disguises his looks well - so Maye would be under pressure just like JD is, bigtime. There aren't many QBs who play well under that scenario of constant pressure.

 

[method man]

It’s not about Kraft being a good person or whatever. He obviously isn’t. Vrabel, career Patriot, would not agree to wait a year to coach the program knowing that another career Patriot in Mayo was getting shafted with a pre-ordained single season as HC after being groomed all that time as the coach in waiting, as you say. He just doesn’t operate that way. He’s an old school guy (which is also probably why a bunch of owners weren’t interested in interviewing him, btw). He wouldn’t accept a wink-wink deal knowing Mayo already got the shaft before even beginning his tenure as Patriots HC. It’s just an unrealistic scenario that you cooked up, it’s fine.

I think he was also very careful in choosing where he wanted to go. He lost a power struggle in TN to friggin Ran Carthon. You would know more given you are in Boston but the sense I get is he has the power in NE

 

[HTTR]

Ugh. What a disaster 🤮

Outcoached , outclassed, and outplayed in all phases

This season sucks. We are cursed.

Any chance we can get rid of the Snyder name now??

 

[Bulldog]

Washington doesn’t have the offensive talent some here believe.

There is no breakout wide receiver or rusher that is a threat to take the ball to the house so defenses have to gameplan for them.

That’s why each scoring drive is 12 plays and 79 yards.

We don’t have a CeeDee Lamb or Jahmyr Gibbs to threaten defenses with a consistent threat at WR or RB.

Tight end is a morass.

We are now going to see with Ertz out for the year what Sinnott can do.

The fact the coaches went to an undrafted free agent in Yankoff a few games ago to catch passes in the middle of the field is some evidence Sinnott is not a player that is really emerging in practice or games.

I can’t remember a #2 pick getting this little time on the field almost 2 years into his rookie deal.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Washington doesn’t have the offensive talent some here believe.

There is no breakout wide receiver or rusher that is a threat to take the ball to the house so defenses have to gameplan for them.

That’s why each scoring drive is 12 plays and 79 yards.

We don’t have a CeeDee Lamb or Jahmyr Gibbs to threaten defenses with a consistent threat at WR or RB.

Tight end is a morass.

We are now going to see with Ertz out for the year what Sinnott can do.

The fact the coaches went to an undrafted free agent in Yankoff a few games ago to catch passes in the middle of the field is some evidence Sinnott is not a player that is really emerging in practice or games.

I can’t remember a #2 pick getting this little time on the field almost 2 years into his rookie deal.

Oh no, here we go.

Yes, Kliff is not the reason we scored 0 points against Minnesota. First time since 1992 a team has been SHUT OUT in one week, and then SHUT OUT another team the next week.

We also came close to a blowout record, for consecutive blowouts.

It is the first time in franchise history we were destroyed this badly in a row since 1954 (don't have the exact record, but do I really need to do that to myself? Haha).

Anyway, my point is - no. This team, that has a lot of the same offensive players from LAST YEAR - is not being coached well. I'm not saying the players are world beaters or anything like that, but the pass rush is crazy - they don't have time to throw deep usually.

At this point, with the mistakes I see on offense? With the lack of creativity? With trotting out failed designs and plans and playcalls? I actually don't trust their evaluation of Sinnott. I don't think they will find a place for him. I think there are plenty of places for him.

When our WRs were all banged up, Sinnott could have lined up as a HB or a FB. I've seen it done. Is he unable? At this point - I say Kliff is the one who is unable. Unable to think outside of his box.

 

[SkinsLife]

Cool, we are definitely closer on our opinions than I originally thought - but look -
when you score 0 points as they did today, someone sucks. So it's either Kliff or JD, isn't it? I mean, it wasn't the running backs, because they weren't used enough.
So who is it?

You seem to be saying that Kliff is good enough. "One of the better O minds in the NFL" - was not actually in the NFL right before this gig. Yes, he was probably coming back, but the reason he was out -- you remember, right? And now, he did just lead this debacle as OC, and he did have this team getting blown out in multiple games, right? So many people here are blaming that completely on injuries - we don't *win* those games with the injuries, but I don't let Kliff off the hook for the overall performance of the O in those blowouts.

I agree with you - if JD can't stay healthy, it truly doesn't matter how good or bad he is. I think he can stay healthy with better coaching. I think he's smart. Right now, from my vantage point - I blame the coaches.

You can't throw out last year, that's part of my point to you: JD looked better than Maye last year. Why?

Anyway, I think we have major core points we agree on, although they are kind of obvious. Still, there are plenty of people here who argue what I think are obvious... haha.

I actually think that Maye on this team may throw way too many picks per game. He's a gunslinger and a risk taker, and this team with its D? It's not a good team for a guy who is more willing to throw picks. I mean, you could be right - maybe Maye in Kliff's system is some kind of great fit, but even there - my issue is I don't think Kliff disguises his looks well - so Maye would be under pressure just like JD is, bigtime. There aren't many QBs who play well under that scenario of constant pressure.

I havent been very happy with this FO as a whole and have been pretty outspoken about it.
1. Poor drafting
2. not enough emphasis on proper depth
3. didnt like the Quinn hire.. a D focused HC that cant put together a good D to save his life. Hated Whitt hire from the get go.
4. And yes, Kliff hasnt done a good enough job this year... he definitely deserves some blame. I dont know how you can put together a great game plan against Den and then completely shit the bed against and inferior Min. That overtime loss seemed to have drained this team physically and mentally from coaching on down. while i have my doubts that any OC can be particularly effective with that amount of injuries on O, I am with you on wanting to move on from him in the off season. Noe enough creativity in his game plan... although some of that i believe is attributed to JD not making the right calls.

 

[RedWolf]

SkinsNumberOne
I did the best that I can my friend. I'm hopeful every week and I've been hopeful ever since I've been a Redskins fan at 4 or 5 years old. That goes back to 1968 or 1969.

In the 80s I used to wake up in Germany and watch games at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, before the internet. Even though I had to show up for PT and run 10 miles at 6 am. There are days, months and years that I am very frustrated, but I have never wavered loving this team

 

[Burgundy Sweatshirt]

We need to get off that cursed land FedEx is on for starters.

I’m not blaming the field or stadium any longer.

 

[ExoDus84]

Quinn really should be on the hot seat at this point.

It's one thing to lose when you're shorthanded and your team has been ripped apart by injuries. I get it, but this team is getting routinely embarrassed and outright laughed off the field. We've lost 8 games in a row, and 5 of them have been by 22 points or more. This team is getting dunked on. Absolutely fucking humiliated.

You can't be the GM of this team and feel good about that. Injuries or not, we shouldn't be this bad.

That's on coaching.

 

[Bulldog]

We didn’t really have breakout offensive players last year.

We had a rookie quarterback take the league by storm and some guys that are OK performers like Noah Brown and Zack Ertz at 34 played beyond any expectations.

Anyone remember the Miracle Mets?

McLaurin is not a legit all pro receiver.

He might be a #3 in Dallas or Cincinnati.

Definitely a #2 on a number of other clubs.

 

[DieselPwr44]

AP's biggest mistake to date is not building anything to last. Everything is one year deals with old vets. I get the idea of remaining cap flexible as long as you are trying to restock your "draft pick cupboard" in order to draft young talent. But so far, he's traded off more picks than acquired.

AP came into a club that needed a serious, committed rebuild and chose instead to patch a massive hole in the foundation with duct tape instead of block and mortar.

It's a pattern that long time Redskins fans know well as it is the only way we've seen roster construction done around here for the last 30+ years.

 

[Burgundy Sweatshirt]

Is it just me, or was Jayden's body language awful at the end of this one? I'm not a mind-reader, but it looked like a 'why in God's name did this team draft me?' kind of a look

I think it was disappointment, anger and embarrassment.