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Not Too Disappointed

Loss Vegas

fansince62

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no disrespect El...but we have seen the FA show for the last decade in ole DC and the early returns are not favorable.
 

stevenaa

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Maybe, but he's been throwing dirt balls for 11 years now. You really didn't expect that to stop, did you? Still, he's leagues better then what we've had since Ripien in his prime. TWENTY YEARS AGO. He's the least of our worries. I'll take it. For now.
I never expect it to stop, and that's the problem. He's a huge upgrade over Campbell. I just wish there were other options.
 

Elephant

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no disrespect El...but we have seen the FA show for the last decade in ole DC and the early returns are not favorable.
Poor example. Other teams in the NFL have found a balance between, draft, trades and FA that works. Unless you have built up a bevy of draft picks, there is no way to build with only 7 picks a year. I agree it can't be all FA, but you have to see it can't be all draft picks either. There has to be a balance.
 

Cycleans

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Hey Folks:

Here is my concern - Although we are 3-3, has anyone taken a look at this 3-3 record? We are 1-3 outside the division. Let me repeat 1-3. We either start winning games outside the division or the 2-0 division wins don't mean squat.
While the above is true the Skins have only one conference loss. So if they lose it's alot better to lose out of the conference. It's still way too early to start adding that stuff up at least for a few more games, its way more significant for early season favorites however, Dallas has really put themselves in a tough spot. The same can be said for the Vikes.
 
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fansince62

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Poor example. Other teams in the NFL have found a balance between, draft, trades and FA that works. Unless you have built up a bevy of draft picks, there is no way to build with only 7 picks a year. I agree it can't be all FA, but you have to see it can't be all draft picks either. There has to be a balance.

Poor example!!! That has been the foundation of the Skins personnel strategy since DS took command. Well...FA + trades. It has failed miserably. you see no relationship between a heavy FA/trade strategy and draft picks? we're not talking about what other teams have done...we're talking about the Washington Redskins. In truth, were we really honest in this conversation....and putting aside how contracting has also screwed this team for years on end......it all boils down to the judgment and accuracy of the personnel department.

Instead of this scattershot approach...this could turn into an interesting thread: how does one build a championship roster AND sustain it over time? What are the core principles and system properties needed to do this? And it is a system - there is (or should be) organization and purpose to how they make decisions and it should be consistent over time. What models (based on these principles and system properties) are available to pattern after? What are various teams (presumably the more successful ones) actually doing? Can't jump to the last item on the list without laying out principles and system properties first. You have to have the foundation to understand what the Skins are doing....or moving toward/away from...and to assess their success.

What system do you think they are deploying this and the next several years? Do you htink it is the right one? Are they succeeding?
 

Cycleans

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I think most if not all would agree that the previous front office made a bunch of mistakes...that being said, could we also agree that those mistakes aren't going to go away in 1 yr? We aren't even at the halfway point btw
Its not like the Skins are loaded with players that can be traded for much in the way of draft picks outside of Orakapo,possibly Landry or Cooley. So this is the hand Shanny and Allen were dealt. So whether we like it or not we are playing for next year. That doesn't mean they won't be worth watching.
There are alot of positives I'm seeing. One is the transition to the 3-4 isn't as bad as I envisioned so far. Yes they are giving up boatlads of yards but the scoring allowed is pretty decent. Turnovers are up but missed opportunities like dropped ints are as bad as last season.
Two, we are making more big plays downfield inspite of protection issues on the Oline.Three the running game is coming around and the schedule looks more favorable for the next couple of games.
Three, I think the Skins have a legitimate chance for the playoffs. There are 5 spots available and I think it's kinda hard not to put up a list of the top 5 playoff teams in the NFC and not find a way to put us in the top 6.
In no particular order based on if the playoffs started next week. Eagles,Rams, Falcons
and Chicago. With NYG,Skins, Bucs, Seattle, Gb and Dallas all vying for the last 2 spots.
There are way too many variables to factor in at this point of the season.
 

China

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Michigan State

In no particular order based on if the playoffs started next week. Eagles,Rams, Falcons
and Chicago. With NYG,Skins, Bucs, Seattle, Gb and Dallas all vying for the last 2 spots.
There are way too many variables to factor in at this point of the season.
Four division leaders - Giants, Chicago, Atlanta, and either Arizona or Seattle

Two wildcards - Philadelphia and New Orleans.

3-3 doesn't cut it. Not sure how Dallas at 1-4 makes your list.
 

Elephant

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Poor example!!!


What system do you think they are deploying this and the next several years? Do you htink it is the right one? Are they succeeding?
Yes, it is a poor example because we are talking about a cash happy owner with a buffoon for a VP/GM or whatever you want to call Cerrato. Also, I say our scouting department has done a poor job over the years. Now that is based on my limited understanding of what they do. I will admit, I have a limited understanding.

As for a plan, I am not sure how to strike a balance between FA, Draft and undrafted FA. If I were Allen, I would go after DeCosta if I could pry him away from Baltimore. I like Allen, I like Shanahan, after initial misgivings. But we need someone in place with some consistency in player acquisition.

In Baltimore, they have done a great job of balance among trades, draft and FA.
 

fansince62

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Yes, it is a poor example because we are talking about a cash happy owner with a buffoon for a VP/GM or whatever you want to call Cerrato. Also, I say our scouting department has done a poor job over the years. Now that is based on my limited understanding of what they do. I will admit, I have a limited understanding.

As for a plan, I am not sure how to strike a balance between FA, Draft and undrafted FA. If I were Allen, I would go after DeCosta if I could pry him away from Baltimore. I like Allen, I like Shanahan, after initial misgivings. But we need someone in place with some consistency in player acquisition.

In Baltimore, they have done a great job of balance among trades, draft and FA.

ok...now we can talk more amicably. agree with the caveat that the mismanagement goes all the way back to 1992..even during...said to say....my hero Joe G's days.

I like Allen as well and think his alumni effort is smart marketing. I would have preferred blowing the team up and sucking up the pain for 3 years as opposed to what I think will turn out to be a climb to respectable, competetive football that will never even sniff a SB (if present patterns persist). As for Shanahan...hard to say. I don't care for the man personally..I don't see him beyond the coach's role as anyone with any real stature....but do hope like the rest of us that he has the vision, scheme, flexibility and leadership skills to turn around this embarrassing franchise to recapture past glories. 2 SBs are nice...until you realize those happened over a decade ago and that the man was fired. he should have been an institution in Denver and retired there. why didn't that happen? there's more going on than meets the eye.
 

Cycleans

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Four division leaders - Giants, Chicago, Atlanta, and either Arizona or Seattle

Two wildcards - Philadelphia and New Orleans.

3-3 doesn't cut it. Not sure how Dallas at 1-4 makes your list.

Oops I forgot I mentioned if they started next week. Regardless the Skins are very much in the thick of things and set ouselves up very nicely with wins at phila and a home game against Dallas.
Dallas and Gb made the list because they have "The Talent" to turn things around evidently. The odds are definetly against then however.
 

Goaldeje

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James Madison

Fansince, just out of curiosity, is there a team philosophy in the NFL over the past 10-20 years that you would champion?
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CounterTrey

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Guys, it was the COlts. You know, Payton Friggin Manning? The guy that's been shredding the league to what, 12 seasons? The guy that can run hisoffense asleep. I was shocked we didn't get whomped



Maybe, but he's been throwing dirt balls for 11 years now. You really didn't expect that to stop, did you? Still, he's leagues better then what we've had since Ripien in his prime. TWENTY YEARS AGO. He's the least of our worries. I'll take it. For now.



We'll see. So far he's had to run for his life most of the season, since Rabach has been getting blown away again this year.




It could be worse. If this were last years gang, I doubt we would have still been fighting at the end of the Dal ass game or the Green Bay game.

And yes, losses suck, butagain, it was the Colts, and we're not in that league yet. But the sounds coming out of hte locker room make it at least seem like these guys give a **** if they lose




Overall, I'm pretty happy we held up against them. Last year it would have been ****ing ugly

This pretty well reflects my sentiment as well. I would also add/reinforce the point that the last decade of ineptitude was helmed by one Vinny Ceratto. So comparing what Allen and Shanny are doing to the the previous regimes (Gibbs made the epic mistake of keeping VC around so he wasn't faultless)is flawed.Their approach to rebuilding a team is not saddled with the past misddeds of previous Redskins FO.s They have a brand new clean slate and sans the Defensive coaching/scheme there has been marked improvement in just about every category.

I blame a lot of the defensive problems on Haslett and this goofy scheme they're running. I have so many criticisms and questions but one that sticks out right now is WTF with the D linemen and their bouncing back and forth (Jarmon was doing it a ton)? Was that supposed to confuse or amuse Manning? :insane:
 

fansince62

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I blame a lot of the defensive problems on Haslett and this goofy scheme they're running. I have so many criticisms and questions but one that sticks out right now is WTF with the D linemen and their bouncing back and forth (Jarmon was doing it a ton)? Was that supposed to confuse or amuse Manning? :insane:
that was the idea. The Colts countered pretty brilliantly by shifting the confusion factor back to the defense.

who knows what's going on with the defense other than that is has dropped to just about dead last in the NFL. Here are some themes (but not all):

- the secondary appears confused on how to work zone hand-offs

- there's no interior pressure to collapse the pocket except on those rare ocassions when Shanahan decides to play Haynesworth. Only Orakpo generates consistent pressure with Landry chipping in from time to time. We don't seem to have the LB threat (other than Orakpo) that makes teams like P-Burgh so destructive.

- Haslett calls for these goofy formations that offenses simply audible around for big gains

- the obvious: dbs/safeties need stickim on their hands

- solo tackling has been bad at times

- somehow...the coordination between the down 3 and the up 4 aint workin on run defense. that's the biggest change IMO. Our pass defense has always been suspect over the last several yrs but the run defense has been fairly good. well...run D...errr.....sucks! If I heard right....that was the Colts best running game in 3 yrs and a career high for Adai.

makes me think...unoriginally...that the core problem is the down linemen. we don't have the right folks. don't know about whether Haslett is making the right defensive calls play to play - hard to tell when teams are ripping the defense for such large gains!
 

fansince62

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Overall, I'm pretty happy we held up against them. Last year it would have been ****ing ugly

maybe...don't forget last year's abominable team took the Saints (best offense in the NFL & SB champs) to the wire - and should have won.
 

Lanky Livingston

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Fansince, just out of curiosity, is there a team philosophy in the NFL over the past 10-20 years that you would champion?
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that should be obvious! the Pats.
Illegally filming warm-ups and walk-throughs to have an unfair advantage against your opponents? And here I thought you were a morally scrupulous fellow, fansince! ;)
 

RedskinfaninOC

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I have been given this extra thought and I think that there are 2 disappointments. First is Haynesworth. We are 6 games into the season and he has been a large disappointment. I think that "but for" his salary, I think he should have been cut and I am sure the skins would have done it. He is a big distraction, does not give us his best, and frankly, how many quarters has he actully played? For a supposedly a starter, has he really contributed in any meanful manner? I think we can do better. I would rather cut and run then go on. Unfortunately, it is too late this season.

This next one may cause some to disagree, but is Carols Rogers really worthy it? I am getting tires of " if he would had intercepted 5 passes he would be leading the league". Well he didn't. This is not a league were you get extra points on "what ifs". Rogers is simply not able to perform as we need. It hurts to think that how we could have won the Colts game, as an exmple, if he just could hold on to the ball.This games are just to competitive to have this mistakes.
 

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