Next Day Thread: That Saint Pretty

KDawg

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Going into this game, I had one concern: Alvin Kamara. Their offense, especially with Carr out, is pedestrian for the most part otherwise. So naturally, if you would have told me Kamara had five rushes for twelve yards and four receptions for 58 yards (9 touches, 60 yards) I'd have thought we won by 30.

Well... We didn't win by 30. Though, to be fair, this game was largely dominated by the Commanders.

I know, I know... "But KD, we won by one on a last second stop! This team just isn't very good! We made a lot of bad decisions and our best players didn't make the best plays when the game was on the line, man!"

And I'd nod and agree that we had some... inopportune moments. Three deep balls to McLaurin, two I put on Daniels and one on Terry, that each would have been six points for the good guys - missed. And yes, I am putting one of those on Terry because he stopped his route. Now, granted, the read could have been the one Terry made: Curl up into the vacated zone and take what is there... Or it could have been "if you're even, you're leavin'," and Terry was supposed to be off to the races, but either way, from our perspective that looked to be more on McLaurin than Daniels. But the other two - the young rook missed.

And then we can go ahead and talk about the tremendous officiating effort that was had. And no, I'm not just talking against our team - the officiating for both teams was some of the worst I've seen in a long time in the NFL. How you allow a kick to go off a full five seconds after the quarter is alarming. That can actually be considered to be a safety concern as some players may have seen the clock and not fired off and/or, and more importantly, it's an extra added play to the game that had no business being run. There were a few roughing type calls on both teams that were beyond questionable... And then you have "game clock gate" (See Warren Sharp's tweet below):

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I mean, this is quite frankly a level of not good that I haven't seen around here since... well, last season with our team. But I digress.

That's talk about our team.

Statistically, the Commanders had "just" 326 yards of offense. Let's remind ourselves, that while that wasn't the best game our team could have played this year, and they have been better, that last year sniffing 300 yards felt like a pipedream. Yes, here I am, white knighting this team. But I am going to remind everyone of something here:

This team has no business being 9-5. None. Zero. Nada.

People will disagree with me, and that's okay, but we are lacking in talent in many places. Our receiving corps, by NFL standards, are abysmal. We have one receiver that wouldn't be receiver 3/4 at best on other teams - he just happens to be an absolute specimen of a player. The rest aren't bad players, necessarily. I know in the gamechat we had a little conversation about this and in reflection I do believe my phrasing could be better, so I am going to try to be more articulate here:

Our receivers are NFL players - but they are playing well above the role that they should be playing in most cases - and are being expected to play like NFL WR2 when most of them are decent/solid WR3/4 type of players.

We have a rookie LT, who isn't doing a bad job developing (though he had a bad game yesterday). We have a RT who... well, I'll digress before I get going there.

Our best lineman, Tyler Biadasz was out with a sickness and from what I read, Cosmi was under the weather as well - our two best OL were either out or weakened.

Brian Robinson has been an absolute delight for us this year when healthy, and I think he's one of the best backs in the League (top 10-15) if he were healthy for an entire season - but that man takes a brutal beating every time he steps on the field, which makes it much more difficult.

Zach Ertz was on dream street after the shoulder he took to the head, and he is our second leading receiver (which isn't great to begin with).

Yes, some of this sounds like excuses - and admittedly they are. But at the same time... strip our name away here and read this sentence and let me know what you'd think going into a game like this:

"Yeah, but their second leading receiver, one of their most explosive players, their best OL are out... their second best OL is sick (allegedly?) and they have a rookie LT and a rookie QB"

How do you think that would turn out for that team? Probably not great - which we experienced yesterday.

Our defense answered the bell for sure, allowing just 245 yards on the game.

But one thing that people seem to be missing here is the disparity in total offensive plays run - the Commanders absolutely dominated this game in that sense: 74-51. We ran 23 more plays. Twenty Three. That is, essentially four to five series of extra plays that our team ran vs. their team. We had the ball for 40 minutes (again). They had it for 20 minutes.

Want to talk about taking a team that is overachieving its overall talent level? Look at those numbers. That is absolutely huge in the grand scheme of things. Oh, and by the way: While our defense at times didn't answer the bell... at the end of the day the Saints were 3/11 on third down conversion chances. Want to talk about getting the job done? Hats off to Coach Whitt and the defensive staff as well as all the defensive players. They are all way above where they have any business of being and lightyears ahead of whatever that unit was supposed to be last season. It is completely different. Night and day... Even from the first few weeks this season.

Some other good news? Terry McLaurin.

We know he is just about to pass Bobby Mitchell to be top 5 all-time in Commander history for yards... Boone mentioned that he's the first Commander receiver to have 10 TD in a season since Gary Clark did it... but how about this stat?

In Commander history, here are the top receiving touchdown seasons:

1. Ricky Sanders - 1988 - 12
2. Charley Taylor - 1966 - 12
3. Jerry Smith - 1967 - 12
4. Hugh Taylor - 1952 - 12
5. Jordan Reed - 2015 - 11
6. Bobby Mitchell - 1962 - 11
7. Terry McLaurin - 2024 - 11
8. Gary Clark - 1991 - 10* - this is the referenced point that Boone brought to the table yesterday.

So, the Commanders haven't had a 10 TD receiver since 1991 (Jordan Reed is a tight end). Four of the top eight are tight ends/HBacks. The only receivers are Clark, Mitchell, McLaurin, Sanders.

In the last 40 years the Commanders have had THREE wide receivers with 10 or more touchdowns in a single season. And we are witnessing one of them live and in front of our eyes. McLaurin is also about to have his fifth 1,000 yard season.

Defensively, we all know that Bobby Wagner is over 100 tackles... but did you know Jeremy Chinn (hope he's good) is just seven tackles away from 100 on the year? In fact, I think our top five tacklers is a bit surprising...

1. Wagner - 109
2. Chinn - 93
3. Luvu - 82
4. Quan Martin - 75
5. Mike Sainristil - 73.

So let's talk Mikey Sainristil for a minute... He has a legitimate case for defensive rookie of the year. I'm not sure he wins it... but he has 73 tackles, 11 passes defensed, 2 INT, 1 FF, 1 FR.

So why am I pumping up career and season stats after this ugly game that we won?

I'm glad you asked - because a win should always be celebrated - even when ugly. There is no such thing as style points. We're not winning games while in the race for a top flight QB for no reason at the end of a season. We haven't won a game in December since... a long time... prior to this year... and now we've won two of them.

But most importantly because Adam Peters, Dan Quinn, Joe Whitt and Kliff Kingsbury took over a team with absolutely no direction and transformed it. And that isn't a knock on Rivera. It's not.

Rivera had a real bad hand here. Dan Snyder was a major issue that he struggled to overcome. The name change. The list goes on. I am not going to sit here and pretend that anyone would have had success under the conditions Rivera inherited this team. My last statement wasn't about Rivera, or his staff, at all. And I mean that. They were guys that were put in a place that were set up to fail. I am putting the direction of this franchise on the ownership group - Dan Snyder and his group.

Josh Harris has allowed the franchise room to breathe. He is improving facilities and changing the vibe at the park. Dan Quinn is great. But if Snyder was the man in charge I guarantee you this team isn't doing what it's doing right now. The deck was stacked against everyone that came here. We've seen that with so many of our former coaches dominating the League.

This team has overachieved after turning over roughly 60% of it's roster. Oh, and I bet more of that churns next year. This has been a complete rebuild...

And that perspective is 100% necessary to understand just how amazing 9-5 is.

We are two wins away from doing something that this franchise hasn't done since 1991 - win 11 games.

The fact that we have a chance to do that after the last, well, thirty years, is amazing.

So while a lot of us were frustrated with the way we won (and we do need to improve) I think it's really important that we all take some perspective into our lungs - we won a close game that we lose in past years and have improved our playoff position in a VERY needed way. We're alive for another week and it feels great.

Oh and PS: Marcus Lattimore didn't get targeted once yesterday... That's absolutely wild.

Studs:
Terry McLaurin - ***
Mike Sainristil - ***
Marcus Lattimore - ***
Jayden Daniels - **
Jeremy Chinn - **
Daron Payne - *

Duds:
Officiating for both teams.


Season Totals (Since last week, anyways):
Studs:
Terry McLaurin - 9x*
Jayden Daniels - 7x*
Frankie Luvu - 6x*
Mike Sainristil - 5x*
Brian Robinson - 3x*
Daron Payne -3x*
Marcus Lattimore - 3x*
Jeremy Chinn - 2x*
Chris Rodriguez - 2x*
Tyler Biadasz - 2x*
Dante Fowler - 2x*
Bobby Wagner - 2x*

Duds:
Austin Seibert - 3x :(
Zane Gonzalez - 1x:(
 
Amen, Kdawg.

One thing I was thinking about while people are groaning about us barely being the Saints is that Kansas City barely beat the Panthers. Yes, I know we are no Chiefs, but that makes the point. If the class of the league can struggle against the league's worst then a developing team can too. What's important is earning or lucking your way out of that rough game. We did it and that's what teams learning to be good need to do.
 
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Nice write up, KDizzle.

I'll just add that even though Rivera was dealt a rough hand, he did, in fact, decide to draft Emmanuel Forbes in the first round. And Jamin Davis. And Jahan Dotson. Snyder didn't make him do that. He sabotaged his own stint by being an abominable talent evaluator.

And that officiating crew...just woof. They didn't realize the quarter ended for 5 full seconds on Joseph's FG attempt, then gave the Saints a free 4 full seconds at the end of the game that allowed them to score the TD. They snapped the ball with 3 seconds left, so that play never should have happened. The game should have ended 20-13.

Drop that entire crew down to the damn XFL.
 
Love the infusion of the historical info. Wow has our recent receiving records been sad.

With 3 games to go we actually have an outside shot at having 3 players with 100 tackles, WOW!

I never expected this team to get to 8 wins yet we are in even shape for a playoff birth and already know we will end up with a winning season. Eat that Danny and Rivera.

I am thrilled with where we are. We have the potential offense and defensive rookies of the year. Eat that too Dan and Ron

Great post KDawg
 
Kdawg, you are on spot on as usual. We lack talent in several areas. It's a miracle we are at our record considering our current roster.
 
This team has no business being 9-5. None. Zero. Nada.

There is one viable reason that the team has won 9 games, the schedule.

Arizona 7-7
Cincinnati 6-8
New Orleans 5-9
Chicago 4-9
Carolina 3-11
Cleveland 3-11
Tennessee 3-11
NYG 2-12
NYG 2-12

They took advantage of the opportunities that the schedule provided and proved that, even though they are ahead of schedule, they have a considerable way to go to become what they and all of us want them to become.
 
Not looking forward to the next game. Hopefully we can keep it respectable
 
Helluva game. I loved Quinn going for it on 4th when many old schoolers saying we should punt net 37 and then us come out in predictable prevent. Rattler and Miller were gashing us in the 2nd half and we didn't have an answer on D. I really think little would have changed if we punted, they would have marched down the field exactly as they did anyways. I like Quinn leaning on our best player and not play calling with the sole objective to milk the clock. Run run run punt and pray. If we got stuffed on that 4th - guess what - we'd presume get the ball back with more time if they did score.

Haven't we ALL see enough times that teams can score in 30 seconds, or less? Heck we did it a few weeks ago. If you think Quinn is radical you should watch Detroit games. It's an adjustment seeing coaches do things we aren't used to.

Terry was damn close to 250 yards and 4 TDs. Beast mode. My kid wore a McLaurin T over a 91 Kerrigan jersey to school today.

Frozone > Agent Zero > Sub Zero > Mikey
 
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we deserved that win yesterday and the gods agreed. Seems we're struggling to slow it down and control the clock in the second half to finish with a score, which seemed like our strong suit early in the year. Now it seems like its hurry-up or bust.
Weve got some studs on all sides after a draft and FA. With another year or two of it, we are going to be scary
 
I thought a big issue was Kliff Kingsbury's tendencies. The Saints D seemed to know when runs or screens would happen. They were moving to shut that down at the snap or just before it.

Maybe with better players we wouldn't have those tendency tells?

D was really good, saw some interesting blitzes. Both ILB's but still only a 4 man rush.

There's a chance Luvu could have 100 tackles and 10 sacks on the season. He's been so good. Last I saw he was way outside the pro bowl voting, but maybe he could make All Pro? I don't know how tough the field is this year.
 
I thought a big issue was Kliff Kingsbury's tendencies. The Saints D seemed to know when runs or screens would happen. They were moving to shut that down at the snap or just before it.

Maybe with better players we wouldn't have those tendency tells?

D was really good, saw some interesting blitzes. Both ILB's but still only a 4 man rush.

There's a chance Luvu could have 100 tackles and 10 sacks on the season. He's been so good. Last I saw he was way outside the pro bowl voting, but maybe he could make All Pro? I don't know how tough the field is this year.
All-Pro is above pro bowl. All-pro is the best player at that position league wide.
 
This team has a serious problem with the 2nd half holding on to leads.

I saw a stat in one of the games that showed they have had the lead for more minutes than any other team in the NFL. Also a stat that says they are right up there in success rate.

Yet somehow they've blown 2nd half leads repeatedly since playing Pittsburgh. It's good to get a win but you're gonna have to keep scoring in the 2nd half and get some stops to win anything in the playoffs.
 
It's always good to come away with a W, but I'm still very concerned with how this team seems to have a tendency to lay an egg in the second half of games, especially on offense. We can get away with that against poor teams, but it's not going to work against better ones.
 
Especially since we now have the coach that led in a SB 28-3 in the 3rd quarter and lost the game.
 
I thought a big issue was Kliff Kingsbury's tendencies. The Saints D seemed to know when runs or screens would happen. They were moving to shut that down at the snap or just before it.

Maybe with better players we wouldn't have those tendency tells?

D was really good, saw some interesting blitzes. Both ILB's but still only a 4 man rush.

There's a chance Luvu could have 100 tackles and 10 sacks on the season. He's been so good. Last I saw he was way outside the pro bowl voting, but maybe he could make All Pro? I don't know how tough the field is this year.
I like Kliff and I defend Kliff a lot, though I acknowledge when I think he over thinks things.

I think with Biadacz out, he knew the interior run game was going to go nowhere. We saw a lot kore outside runs, jet sweeps, etc.

I think he’s trying to make chicken soup out of chicken poop with our weapons every week. He has to do so much with smoke and mirrors, and you know what, most weeks, he pulls it off.

If Daniels is a hair more accurate on the deep balls to Terry, this game is a blowout. He schemed Terry open deep. Called a sequence of plays to show the defense one thing then hit them with something else.

I really like Kliff’s offense. I like the tempo, I like the way they spread the field, I like the pulling motion in the run game.

I think if they can get another couple weapons and generally more deep speed, they’re going to be even more dynamic.

But it’s going to take a little time. Ron left the cupboard so bare, we have to rebuild the entire roster. Both sides.

However, absent a few bits to pick, I really like Kliff’s offense.
 
It's always good to come away with a W, but I'm still very concerned with how this team seems to have a tendency to lay an egg in the second half of games, especially on offense. We can get away with that against poor teams, but it's not going to work against better ones.
The second halves have been a problem, no doubt.

I do wonder how much of that is what they’re doing, and how much is bad luck. For whatever reason, I feel like they’ve had some just bad luck in second halves.

But we’ll see. They need to play 60 minutes of football. They haven’t really done that in a while.
 
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