Next Day Thread: 12-5.

[KDawg]

This is usually the end of the season... In fact, since these Next Day Threads started in their current iteration, we have yet to have fielded a playoff team. So I am left with questions... Do I continue studs and duds into post season? Do I award the players with their "awards" just for the regular season? And my answer is simple: No one cares about the awards so they'll be after we are eliminated. And I actually semi lied... we made the playoffs in 2020, which I did the NDT's for... I just don't have any memory of how I handled it.

Now that this major order of business has been settled... Let's get to the meat and potatoes - We are 12-5. It is an ugly as hell 12-5. It's now how any of us probably would have imagined it would be for us to achieve our best record since 1991... Hail Mary's, comebacks, Marcus Mariota - you name it... we did it. But we finished 12-5. You don't get style points in the National Football League. As the late Al Davis once said, "Just win, baby". And we did. Twelve times. In one year. Twelve wins is equal to the number of wins we had in 2023 & 2024 combined. Again, we won the same amount of games in one year as we did in the previous two seasons. It it kind of surreal when you think about it.

This thread is going to be shorter than usual - why? Well, I'm strapped for time. But also because I don't want to make this longer than it needs to be to emphasize the theme: 12-5.

Some bullet point thoughts:

-McLaurin needs to catch the easy passes earlier in the game. But I am glad he caught the hard ones later. When JD went out, he stepped up.

-Payne at end is fun. I was kind of mad at him for the penalty he got, but when you see the replay I feel he was probably justified.

-Jeremy Chinn has been absolutely phenomenal for us. Wagner, Chinn, Luvu and Sainristil are the biggest difference makers on the D, which is still porous at times... But they buckle down when needed.

-If Lattimore isn't healthy this week, we're in trouble. Baker Mayfield is a guy like Jayden - he can will his team to victory.

-The Bucs are 0-4 this year in prime time and 0-6 the last two years... and we play them Sunday in prime time.

-Marcus Mariota stepped up and had a few great plays. Great job by Kingsbury adjusting.

-I am slightly concerned with Jayden Daniels. He looked like he did after the rib injury for a few weeks yesterday. Hopefully he just needs some rest.

-McLaurin broke the Commander's single season touchdown record with 2 seconds to go in the regular season. If that doesn't sum up the year I don't know what does.

-I never doubted the outcome yesterday - I just wish we didn't take such a roundabout way to get there.

-Among our vast array of needs this offseason - OL/DT help is among the highest. We need an anchor in the trenches to play that 1/2i-tech spot. We also need at least one tackle (hopefully LT and move Coleman). Those are minimum upgrades.

-Our running game has been abysmal. I think a lot of that is on the line. But Robinson has been off lately. Mariota was our leading rusher yesterday with 56 yards. Second? Jayden Daniels with 27.

-OZ had a tough game yesterday, but stepped up with Mariota.

-Did I mention Jeremy Chinn? He had 13 tackles, a sack and 2 TFL yesterday.

But again, the overall takeaway yesterday? 12-5. Playoffs. Prime Time. What a time to be alive.

Studs:
Jeremy Chinn - ***
Marcus Mariota - ***
Terry McLaurin - **
Mike Sainristil - **
Bobby Wagner - *
Zach Ertz - *


Season Total:
Studs:
Jayden Daniels - 13x*
Terry McLaurin - 12x*
Frankie Luvu - 9x*
Jeremy Chinn - 9x*
Mike Sainristil - 8x*
Olamide Zaccheaus - 5x*
Bobby Wagner - 5x*
Marcus Lattimore - 5x*
Dante Fowler - 4x*
Jer'Zhan Newton - 3x*
Daron Payne -3x*
Zach Ertz - 3x*
Marcus Mariota - 3x*
Nick Allegretti - 2x*
Quan Martin - 2x*
Chris Rodriguez - 2x*
Tyler Biadasz - 2x*
Jamison Crownder - 1x*
Jalyn Holmes - 1x*
Clelin Ferrell - 1x*

Duds:
Austin Seibert - 3x
Michael Davis - 3x
Zane Gonzalez - 1x

 

[burgold]

As crazy as it sounds, you could almost give Daniels a dud for yesterday. I'm not upset, but he just didn't have it. The dropsies made his life even worse. I don't know if it was that he was feeling pressure (as Boone assumed because he felt Quinn really wanted this), if it was a college effect where the players don't care about the last game after their Bowl was announced, or some minor injury. I will say that in the first half, he didn't look like himself on the sideline. He just didn't have that spark or pep, but that's psuedo psychology and who knows what he was thinking on the bench.

In terms of left tackle for next year, I'm curious to see how much growth we can expect out of Coleman from year one to two. I don't mind looking for an upgrade, but I think it's also fair to remember that he was a rookie with no offseason. I do expect a jump in understanding and performance. All the coaches on the board can tell me if I'm being a homer

Yesterday's win was frustrating. What an amazing feeling to have a frustrating win! The Cowboys took it to us early and had their way with the defense between the 20's. Luckily, we were able to tighten up in the red zone. The run game disappeared and Kingsbury was content not to go back to it. Maybe that's because he saw a line that just couldn't get it done or running backs being ineffective, but I'd like to see a little more patience before giving up on the run game. Who knows? Some of Daniels struggles may have been because he thought the world was on his back and he would have no run game to lean on. We need to find a way to restore the run game's mojo.

Mostly though, we doubled my estimated total of wins (I enjoyed that both of us pointed out the Rivera thing) and I had fun as a fan for the first time in several years. Glad I was able to share this season with so many of you!

HTTR

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I was mostly pissed off for most of the game. Why were both or our poor efforts against the Dallas Cowboys of all teams? I too am concerned about Jayden and the entire offense, they are just not the same offense they were at the end of September. The running game is completely broken for some reason and they were rarely in 2nd and 4, they have been constanly behind the chains and Jayden is looking at receivers who are not open and taking sacks as a result. It's time we admit the KK mid-season drop off has happened here too. I don't have a lot of confidence in this team being able to stop the Bucs offense.

But we are still playing and now have 12 wins. It has been a magical year in some ways with so many wins coming on the last play or with seconds to go. That is not sustainable but I won't complain about an ugly win too much. I was not happy that they decided to rest Jayden, despite how Mariotta played I thought that was a dangerous move as this was at the time an important game to win.

 

[Die Hard]

I’m glad somebody is finally talking about Brian Robinson. He hasn’t been running with speed and force/authority through holes since halfway through the season. It’s time to park him in the garage… and let Chris Rod and McNicholls run.

Daniels is throwing darts. Either it’s off a few inches or it’s on the money and guys are having trouble corralling it. You saw the difference wiyh Marriota’s passes.

Kliff… stop with the designed QB runs with Daniels. This offense was unstoppable earlier in the season because if Jayden’s first read wasn’t open… he planted and ran from passing plays and the secondary spread out. Now, if he’s not rushing with all the defenders 5 yards from the LOS and darting to the QB, he’s waiting too long in the pocket as it’s closing in and getting swallowed up. He’s gotta take off a smidge earlier… instead of dancing around and trying to break tackles. That’s what’s causing these sacks. Even Marriota was more decisive about running yesterday and he was effective.

And I’ll be the first to say it… like I was with Rivera.

I love everything about Dan Quinn. But he wont win championships here. His decision making in the first Eagles game to go for it on 4th down (in 4th quarter) and not take points… threw the game away stupidly. And yesterday, not kicking the extra point and going for 2…. didn’t make any sense and almost lost the game and made the game needlessly harder than it needed to be… it could have been an easy FG to win the game instead of needing it to tie (and go into OT). The math didn’t add up.

This defensive line is either hot or cold. If they can get pressure early… they’re on. But if they don’t… it’s going to be a long day with QBs getting very comfortable in the pocket. It kinda syncs with Luvu’s impact in the game.

That penalty on BSJ was BS… and just let’s you know how the league can fix/alter games. And opposing teams know it now too.

Other than Chinn… our safeties suck bad.

Sainstril is a dog.

There’s no rhythm to this offense. It’s just big plays after many failed plays. And it’s being being kept alive by extra (4th) downs and the individual effort of a QB.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

Yes, Kliff is often content to mostly give up on the run game. I don't understand why CRod or McNichols can't see some time when they've shown they can make big carries in limited action. After one regular season's evaluation, I don't think Kliff is going to be a Super Bowl winning OC. His passing schemes are honestly top notch. His running schemes however, are sort of the opposite, they are some of the worst I have seen - certainly among the worst of people who appear to be trying (with actual attempts). He did try BRob to the outside more, and BRob looked S-L-O-W. It appeared that BRob was looking for holes that weren't there which caused some hesitation but he also looked slower on top. I was thinking it should be CRod time or McNichols but they just kept trotting BRob out.

Gibbs on the Lions had 6 carries for 1 yard initially. WOW! Ended with 139 yards 3 TDs. BRob had 5 carries for 10 yards. Anyway, I see this stuff happen a lot - it is different schemes, different emphasis, different personnel (not just RBs, but OL too).

However, I don't think being this one-dimensional (with the second dimension carried by QB) is a good recipe. Our QB is always going to take too much of a beating to get us a Super Bowl. If that wasn't a thing, I am pretty sure Michael Vick would have at least one SB Ring. However-- it is a thing. If we are this dependent on our awesome QB's legs, we will be in the hunt annually which is cool, but I can't see full postseason success following that.

^ Just the honest analysis, and not being a downer. 12-wins is awesome! Kliff deserves a ton of credit for making it happen.

 

[TD_WashingtonRedskins]

Great write-up. Not that I think you were harsh at all, but one point I want to make in defending the 12-5 season (you mentioned something like "this isn't exactly how we'd picture a 12-win season")...

We often gloss over the ugly or bad after time passes. Even the pristine 14-2 Super Bowl Champion team from 1991 had some disgusting wins. Over time, we've all come to remember them as one of the best teams of all-time and the team with a dynamic offense combined with a suffocating defense that dominated throughout the regular season then had the largest margin of victory through the playoffs. That's all true, but don't forget:

• Needing to comeback from two scores down to beat Dallas in week 2
• Nearly blowing a huge lead vs. winless Cincinnati in week 4 before winning by a TD
• Trailing a pretty mediocre NY Giants team 13-0 at halftime in week 9
• Needing OT and an missed chip-shot FG to beat the Oilers in week 10
• Leading the 3-win Rams by only a point at halftime before pulling away in week 14
• Trailing the 4-win Cardinals by two TDs (and being shutout) at halftime before winning by 6 in week 15

That's the best team I've ever witnessed as a fan and sometimes I think we collectively remember that every game looked like the Lions opening night game or the Falcons 56-17 game. Instead, nearly half their wins were fortunate, very close, or downright ugly.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

I love everything about Dan Quinn. But he wont win championships here. His decision making in the first Eagles game to go for it on 4th down (in 4th quarter) and not take points… threw the game away stupidly. And yesterday, not kicking the extra point and going for 2…. didn’t make any sense and almost lost the game and made the game needlessly harder than it needed to be… it could have been an easy FG to win the game instead of needing it to tie (and go into OT). The math didn’t add up.

It doesn't quite sound like you love *everything* about DQ here, although I agree. That type of decision-making usually is the difference in a lot of postseason games when things are more evenly matched.

Right now this team's personnel is probably *not* evenly matched with most of the playoff teams, but when they are... yes this kind of decision-making can sink you. I will say, though, there aren't too many coaches out there who just never make any mistakes in their decisions - including Super Bowl winners. DQ may not be so far behind the others as we may think, it will come down to - in those critical postseason games, does he make that one fatal error? These games you highlighted were also pretty critical games and points in time which does not bode well.

 

[burgold]

I love everything about Dan Quinn. But he wont win championships here. His decision making in the first Eagles game to go for it on 4th down (in 4th quarter) and not take points… threw the game away stupidly. And yesterday, not kicking the extra point and going for 2…. didn’t make any sense and almost lost the game and made the game needlessly harder than it needed to be… it could have been an easy FG to win the game instead of needing it to tie (and go into OT). The math didn’t add up.

What drove me most were Quinn's use of time outs at the end of the first half. He kept giving Dallas an extra chance to regroup. It was crazy. He made it so Dallas had five time outs on that drive. I have no idea what he was thinking, but whatever it was it was the wrong thing.

 

[burgold]

OTOH, I give Quinn all the credit for turning around this team, assembling a good staff and setting the culture. I think he just had an off game like most of the team.

 

[SkinsNumberOne]

OTOH, I give Quinn all the credit for turning around this team, assembling a good staff and setting the culture. I think he just had an off game like most of the team.

*CULTURE* change has been huge. Ironically, that was what they hoped to get from Ron. I think following Ron (or at least, what Ron did on this team) was in some ways an easy gig. Not taking away from Adam or anyone else, but Ron left a LOT of upgrade room. It's amazing how much turnover this team had and what they have managed to do. It's a testament to the FO and coaching staff, truly.

 

[Mooney44]

 

[Die Hard]

I’m not slamming on Quinn as a bad coach. Not at all.

I just don’t see him at the level of Andy Reid legacy. Very few are. I get it.

But as a 30-year coach, 2nd time go around, surrounding himself with an incredible admin/staff…. some of these poor decisions are inexcusable. He needs to be held accountable and do better.

This has nothing to do with player personnel… I understand the limitations. But there’s still coaching decisions.

I love his aggressiveness though.

 

[Hail Raiser]

At the beginning of the year, I think we all agreed that all that mattered was respectable football, with a base to grow on. I think we have that. On paper, we're 12-5 and the 6th seed and it feels earned for the most part.

Overall, a lot of the season feels like a lot of sub .500 football, saved by a some dynamic plays and the ball bouncing our way. Jayden is so extreme on being hot and cold, that it's kinda concerning, but he did put the team on his back and drag it into the win column a few times. Having Wagner was a huge advantage for us and watching a team with 1 (and rookie to boot) starting CB play some great defense at times, was exciting to see.

I don't care if Kliff stays or goes. I'm happy with Whitt and Quinn. We're left with some obvious glaring holes to fill and have the ammo to fill them and I think we're correct to think next season we should expect a real playoff run, without it feeling flukey at all (which it does to me this year).

I fell asleep after our first drive yesterday confident that we'd win an awful boring game.

I predicted a 10 win season as our floor and it was a fun one for sure. Regardless of how we do in the playoffs, this season was our first real winning season since 91 in my opinion.

Kinda funny that the last playoff game that we won was 20 years ago in Tampa and here we are playing the only team we were left under .500 after playing.

Raise Hail.

 

[KDawg]

Great write-up. Not that I think you were harsh at all, but one point I want to make in defending the 12-5 season (you mentioned something like "this isn't exactly how we'd picture a 12-win season")...

We often gloss over the ugly or bad after time passes. Even the pristine 14-2 Super Bowl Champion team from 1991 had some disgusting wins. Over time, we've all come to remember them as one of the best teams of all-time and the team with a dynamic offense combined with a suffocating defense that dominated throughout the regular season then had the largest margin of victory through the playoffs. That's all true, but don't forget:

• Needing to comeback from two scores down to beat Dallas in week 2
• Nearly blowing a huge lead vs. winless Cincinnati in week 4 before winning by a TD
• Trailing a pretty mediocre NY Giants team 13-0 at halftime in week 9
• Needing OT and an missed chip-shot FG to beat the Oilers in week 10
• Leading the 3-win Rams by only a point at halftime before pulling away in week 14
• Trailing the 4-win Cardinals by two TDs (and being shutout) at halftime before winning by 6 in week 15

That's the best team I've ever witnessed as a fan and sometimes I think we collectively remember that every game looked like the Lions opening night game or the Falcons 56-17 game. Instead, nearly half their wins were fortunate, very close, or downright ugly.

View attachment 8885

Agreed, as I noted, you don't get style points. Regardless of how, or why... this team is 12-5. No one can take that away. It's etched in history.

 

[Ashburn Dave]

We never should have gone for two. We would have only needed a FG at the end if we had just gotten that extra point earlier. We were lucky to get the TD to win.

The running game is an issue. BRob seems to have hit a wall. We will need him to step up in the paloffs (sorry Burgold, LOL) if we want to advance.

 

[AngryChuckT]

*CULTURE* change has been huge. Ironically, that was what they hoped to get from Ron. I think following Ron (or at least, what Ron did on this team) was in some ways an easy gig. Not taking away from Adam or anyone else, but Ron left a LOT of upgrade room. It's amazing how much turnover this team had and what they have managed to do. It's a testament to the FO and coachi

I am raising the fourth generation of fans in my family of this franchise. Up until this time, my kids haven’t had much to cheer about, and unlike my son, my daughter hasn’t shown much interest yet. She’ll watch because everyone else is watching, but she truly didn’t care - until yesterday. We decided to take an impromptu trip for the game. Grab seats Saturday night and drove down at 5 AM yesterday and back last night.

When Terry grabbed that TD Pass, my daughter lost her mind. The commanders fans in the stands were losing it. The Cowboys fans sad. I then saw the look on her face. I got her. That’s the moment I got her. This morning she was exhausted for school, but she kept saying getting ready this morning “that was the best day ever Daddy!”

I think the Lord, Dan Snyder is gone and she will have a functional franchise to pull for.

 

[DWinzit]

So happy for the young fan base that have never experienced what they have yesterday or this season.

I went into this season figuring we were strongest at DT and weakest at WR and DB's. Never expected to be disappointed in the DT's.

Is there any chance at all that Quinn and company will note BRobs regression and lean more on the other 3 RB's? I hope so, we need a run game that doesn't just consist of the QB. Ekeler should be in better shape and I expect him to be more involved.

Coaches need to emphasis playing with discipline this week.

Edit added - BTW, Frannkie Luvu ended out with 99 tackles, just one shy of having 3 with 100 tackles. Also Mikey hit 93 so we had 4 over 90 and Quan ended with 87 without playing yesterday.

 

[Skinsfan1311]

Great write-up. Not that I think you were harsh at all, but one point I want to make in defending the 12-5 season (you mentioned something like "this isn't exactly how we'd picture a 12-win season")...

We often gloss over the ugly or bad after time passes. Even the pristine 14-2 Super Bowl Champion team from 1991 had some disgusting wins. Over time, we've all come to remember them as one of the best teams of all-time and the team with a dynamic offense combined with a suffocating defense that dominated throughout the regular season then had the largest margin of victory through the playoffs. That's all true, but don't forget:

• Needing to comeback from two scores down to beat Dallas in week 2
• Nearly blowing a huge lead vs. winless Cincinnati in week 4 before winning by a TD
• Trailing a pretty mediocre NY Giants team 13-0 at halftime in week 9
• Needing OT and an missed chip-shot FG to beat the Oilers in week 10
• Leading the 3-win Rams by only a point at halftime before pulling away in week 14
• Trailing the 4-win Cardinals by two TDs (and being shutout) at halftime before winning by 6 in week 15

That's the best team I've ever witnessed as a fan and sometimes I think we collectively remember that every game looked like the Lions opening night game or the Falcons 56-17 game. Instead, nearly half their wins were fortunate, very close, or downright ugly.

AMEN!!

 

[method man]

I’m glad somebody is finally talking about Brian Robinson. He hasn’t been running with speed and force/authority through holes since halfway through the season. It’s time to park him in the garage… and let Chris Rod and McNicholls run.

Daniels is throwing darts. Either it’s off a few inches or it’s on the money and guys are having trouble corralling it. You saw the difference wiyh Marriota’s passes.

Kliff… stop with the designed QB runs with Daniels. This offense was unstoppable earlier in the season because if Jayden’s first read wasn’t open… he planted and ran from passing plays and the secondary spread out. Now, if he’s not rushing with all the defenders 5 yards from the LOS and darting to the QB, he’s waiting too long in the pocket as it’s closing in and getting swallowed up. He’s gotta take off a smidge earlier… instead of dancing around and trying to break tackles. That’s what’s causing these sacks. Even Marriota was more decisive about running yesterday and he was effective.

And I’ll be the first to say it… like I was with Rivera.

I love everything about Dan Quinn. But he wont win championships here. His decision making in the first Eagles game to go for it on 4th down (in 4th quarter) and not take points… threw the game away stupidly. And yesterday, not kicking the extra point and going for 2…. didn’t make any sense and almost lost the game and made the game needlessly harder than it needed to be… it could have been an easy FG to win the game instead of needing it to tie (and go into OT). The math didn’t add up.

This defensive line is either hot or cold. If they can get pressure early… they’re on. But if they don’t… it’s going to be a long day with QBs getting very comfortable in the pocket. It kinda syncs with Luvu’s impact in the game.

That penalty on BSJ was BS… and just let’s you know how the league can fix/alter games. And opposing teams know it now too.

Other than Chinn… our safeties suck bad.

Sainstril is a dog.

There’s no rhythm to this offense. It’s just big plays after many failed plays. And it’s being being kept alive by extra (4th) downs and the individual effort of a QB.

-BSJ is a marked man by league refs. If it is close, he won’t get benefit of the doubt. His own fault that he has built this reputation over the years

- PFF gave Quan a meh grade this year at 59. Ranked as a bottom half of the league safety. Wonder if they bring in legit competition for him

 

[Knightingale]

It feels to me like it's the O-Line that's the root of a lot of the issues we're talking about.

When we have our starters healthy, it's not a bad line. We saw that at the start of the year when JD was flourishing and our run game was pounding other teams. Issue is we have next to no depth there. The drop off from starters to reserves is stark.
And unfortunately, we're really banged up there right now.

WIth Lucas and Biadasz out, and with Coleman leaving the game, our Oline was just terrible. (I Think we tend to forget that Coleman is a rookie too, and all the growing pains that come with that!).
Our pass protection was horrendous (we were TRIPLE-teaming Parsons just to keep him at bay) and our run blocking sporadic.

I don't think it's s surprise that BRobs production has dried up in parallel with our Oline being down to second stringers at key positions. I also don't think it's a coincidence that JD has struggled as pressure has mounted due to poor pass protection.
JD5 for all the amazing things he has done, is still a rookie too, and I think pressure like he was getting starts to accelerate his internal clock a little. It also doesn't help when our WR corps is depleted (Noah is still out, and while we got Dyami back this week he's never been a real difference maker) and are dropping balls left and right. Terry is usually Mr Dependable, but even he muffed a couple yesterday. Mariota is a veteran and hence a little calmer under pressure I feel. JD5 will learn from all this and be better for it, but I think it was the right thing to do yesterday to put Mariota in.

I like BRob, but he's no Saquon or Henry. I don't think he's capable of sustaining a run attack if the environment isn't perfect. We're still looking for that elite running back.

I don't think this is anything to do with KK's offense walking off a cliff. I think it has everything to do with the fact that we're not a talented team across the board and for our offense to hum it has to balance on a real knife edge. We're like a very finely tuned engine. IF we have our starters in and they perform to their ability, then we can really hum. But if not, if we just lose even a couple of components, then we struggle. Right now, our injuries have us just outside our bandwidth.

With a good off-season to bolster our depth and put some good players to raise our overall talent level, we should see that band widen which will allow us to weather these kind of injury storms. Like the Lions. Right now, we just aren't there and these last few games have really shown us that while we're good, we still have a ways to go.

12 wins this year is an amazing accomplishment. We've been good, but also we've been lucky. Next year will be a real challenge to repeat that win total.